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Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition

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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#501 » by Note30 » Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:03 am

minimus wrote:
Note30 wrote:
minimus wrote:
Well if keeping Towns is about disregarding possible financial implications, then why not do this for Dame? If we are indeed in win-now mode, why not try to win with Dame? Yes, Dame is not a good defender, but neither is Towns. Yes, Dame has been dealing with injuries through whole his career, but so has been Towns as well. Dame age is concerning, but there is a legitimate chance that Gobert-Anderson-MCD-Edwards-Dame lineup will have much more balance and chemistry that Gobert-Towns-MCD-Edwards-Conley lineup.


Cite reasons 1&2. He doesn't want to be anywhere other than Miami. His team has never performed as well as promised with another star guard on the floor. Lastly, hiding Towns on a 4 is much easier than trying to also guard the opposing teams usual best player or second best (typically a PG). I rather hide Towns on Looney or Green than Dame on Steph. Or on Aaron Gordon than Dame on Murray.

Don't get me wrong I love Dame, but he's not the answer here.


1) NBA as organization has clearly spoken about Dame and Harden situation. Do players still have leverage? Yes, but not as much as they think. I believe NBA tries to avoid another Butler drama

2) starting from 2012-13 Dame had eight consecutive playoff appearances. His team has always been competitive when he is plays. Maybe he has been underachieving for superstar standards, but he is competitor

3) I believe that you can live with Dame as starting PG and you won't get destroyed in defense. DLo played the best offense two seasons ago, and was not complete disaster last season with Rudy. You can workaround Dame defense, especially with Gobert, Anderson, MCD, NAW and Edwards.

The biggest gain if we trade Towns for Same is offense. Dame has clear role: he is both elite slasher and shooter, he also earns a lot of FTs and can play both as primary and secondary playmaker. Having guy like him means Gobert and Anderson won't be asked to create their offense, Gobert especially will benefit a lot from improved spacing and dynamic three point shooting. It is just clear and "simple" offense around Dame and Edwards playing 1-2 punch, where Gobert is again a highly productive screener, rim runner, rebounder and rim protector. Anderson is a swiss army knife in offense and defense, MCD is a third option in offense and our best defender. No more pecking order and coaching zig zags.

Towns current role is very unclear to me. Can he postup? Yes, but is not physical enough and he is prone to pickup offensive fouls. Can he set screens on perimeter? Yes, but he tends to set moving screens. Can he shoot three point shots? Yes, but teams uses mobile forwards on him to take away open threes, and he also often kicks his legs trying to earn free throws, but instead gets offensive fouls. Can he pass? Yes, but his fancy sling passes or over shoulder passes are always more risky rather than efficient simple passes.

Dame has experience, Dame is proven. I don't like his contract and age. But this guy wants to be in MIA which speaks a lot of his motivation. He is not flawless player, but before Conley we didn't have a ballhandler with such talent and experience. Once again: two years ago this team ran like a headless chicken, because there was no experienced ballhandler. Beverley came here and it was immediately evident how important he was as secondary ballhandler (had best season in his career in terms of passing), Conley came here and showed how important a PG who can shoot and pass can be for this team.



Okay you convinced me. I still have reservations about his fit next to Ant.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#502 » by minimus » Fri Aug 25, 2023 8:02 am

Note30 wrote:Okay you convinced me. I still have reservations about his fit next to Ant.


Your concern is legit. You never know how two star players will play together. However, I see following factors if I want to be optimistic about Dame-Edwards duo

1) both are extremely successful as 3pt shooters and slashers. (kudos to Domejandro for finding this stats)

Read on Twitter


2) both are top-10 in pullup 3PA

Read on Twitter


3) Dame is top-10 in both on ball and off ball gravity

Read on Twitter


4) Dame is top3 in FTM per game

Dame is an extremely efficient scorer, who is elite at scoring at rim, from behind of three point line and from free throw line. He can play on and off the ball. But the most important thing to me is his experience, that makes easier to make our team offense work. He has been carrying huge workload as primary ballhandler and first option in offense. And he has been successful in this role. Playing next to rising star allows Dame to age gracefully making transition to second option in course of next years.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#503 » by minimus » Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:54 am

Also I never thought about it but stealing Dame from MIA would make MIA fans crazy, ha-ha! I have been really annoyed by some conversations with some of them. It is funny because I really like their team chemistry, culture, coaching staff and even Butler as player (not person). Also imagine our first game in Target Center on October 28 against MIA, it will be crazy!
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#504 » by shrink » Fri Aug 25, 2023 12:41 pm

Note30 wrote:
minimus wrote:
Note30 wrote:
Cite reasons 1&2. He doesn't want to be anywhere other than Miami. His team has never performed as well as promised with another star guard on the floor. Lastly, hiding Towns on a 4 is much easier than trying to also guard the opposing teams usual best player or second best (typically a PG). I rather hide Towns on Looney or Green than Dame on Steph. Or on Aaron Gordon than Dame on Murray.

Don't get me wrong I love Dame, but he's not the answer here.


1) NBA as organization has clearly spoken about Dame and Harden situation. Do players still have leverage? Yes, but not as much as they think. I believe NBA tries to avoid another Butler drama

2) starting from 2012-13 Dame had eight consecutive playoff appearances. His team has always been competitive when he is plays. Maybe he has been underachieving for superstar standards, but he is competitor

3) I believe that you can live with Dame as starting PG and you won't get destroyed in defense. DLo played the best offense two seasons ago, and was not complete disaster last season with Rudy. You can workaround Dame defense, especially with Gobert, Anderson, MCD, NAW and Edwards.

The biggest gain if we trade Towns for Same is offense. Dame has clear role: he is both elite slasher and shooter, he also earns a lot of FTs and can play both as primary and secondary playmaker. Having guy like him means Gobert and Anderson won't be asked to create their offense, Gobert especially will benefit a lot from improved spacing and dynamic three point shooting. It is just clear and "simple" offense around Dame and Edwards playing 1-2 punch, where Gobert is again a highly productive screener, rim runner, rebounder and rim protector. Anderson is a swiss army knife in offense and defense, MCD is a third option in offense and our best defender. No more pecking order and coaching zig zags.

Towns current role is very unclear to me. Can he postup? Yes, but is not physical enough and he is prone to pickup offensive fouls. Can he set screens on perimeter? Yes, but he tends to set moving screens. Can he shoot three point shots? Yes, but teams uses mobile forwards on him to take away open threes, and he also often kicks his legs trying to earn free throws, but instead gets offensive fouls. Can he pass? Yes, but his fancy sling passes or over shoulder passes are always more risky rather than efficient simple passes.

Dame has experience, Dame is proven. I don't like his contract and age. But this guy wants to be in MIA which speaks a lot of his motivation. He is not flawless player, but before Conley we didn't have a ballhandler with such talent and experience. Once again: two years ago this team ran like a headless chicken, because there was no experienced ballhandler. Beverley came here and it was immediately evident how important he was as secondary ballhandler (had best season in his career in terms of passing), Conley came here and showed how important a PG who can shoot and pass can be for this team.


Okay you convinced me. I still have reservations about his fit next to Ant.

Good discussion, and you both have strong points that have shifted my opinion around.

I just wanted to add that IF Dame was willing to come to MIN, economically the price wouldn’t be that high. We’d only need to beat MIA’s meager offer, if the Heat weren’t willing to raise their bid to compete with us (and they don’t have a lot of assets to do it). I don’t think a Towns trade is likely, and I see him this year in a role similar to how he’s playing with the Dominican Republic, with maybe eight immediate 3PA’s, with some fakes and drives. But if we traded him to, say, OKC, we wouldn’t need to send them all the Thunder assets to beat their offer.

“KAT-for-Dame” I don’t like, since 27 year old Towns fits with Ant for many years, with Edwards long window. “KAT-for-Dame .. plus some assets from OKC,” makes it more palatable to me.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#505 » by Note30 » Fri Aug 25, 2023 1:50 pm

minimus wrote:
Note30 wrote:Okay you convinced me. I still have reservations about his fit next to Ant.


Your concern is legit. You never know how two star players will play together. However, I see following factors if I want to be optimistic about Dame-Edwards duo

1) both are extremely successful as 3pt shooters and slashers. (kudos to Domejandro for finding this stats)

Read on Twitter


2) both are top-10 in pullup 3PA

Read on Twitter


3) Dame is top-10 in both on ball and off ball gravity

Read on Twitter


4) Dame is top3 in FTM per game

Dame is an extremely efficient scorer, who is elite at scoring at rim, from behind of three point line and from free throw line. He can play on and off the ball. But the most important thing to me is his experience, that makes easier to make our team offense work. He has been carrying huge workload as primary ballhandler and first option in offense. And he has been successful in this role. Playing next to rising star allows Dame to age gracefully making transition to second option in course of next years.


I guess if this were a discussion between the two offices I'd have to watch more tape on Dame and his actual movement off ball. But the stats you pulled up make sense.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#506 » by TimberKat » Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:08 pm

It's that 37.3% pull up 3s, the clutch plays, and drive to basketball that I really like. Imagine a super DLo on most nights with last year's roster
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#507 » by Note30 » Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:57 am

Just picking through another possibility is the growth of McDaniels on the offensive end next to Ant. If McDaniels can comfortably get 15 a game alongside Ant and KAT this maybe another trade we could position ourselves for at the deadline

MIN out: KAT, Milton, Moore, 2024 swap, 2028 swap
MEM: Smart, JJJ

A lineup of three defensive players of the year alongside Ant and McDaniels would arguably be the best defense in the league.

Smart / Conley
Ant / NAW
McDaniels / Brown Jr.
JJJ / Anderson
Gobert / Reid

Smart, Ant, McDaniels, JJJ could all comfortably swap 1-4 interchangeably with Smart, McD, and JJJ being able to switch 1-5. If Ant can watch the passing lanes and Gobert is free to roam, our defense could be historically great.

With a bench of Conley, NAW, Anderson, and Reid? We would have to convince Anderson and Conley to sign team friendly deals but....

This team could feasibly win a chip within the next two years.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#508 » by minimus » Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:07 am

Note30 wrote:Just picking through another possibility is the growth of McDaniels on the offensive end next to Ant. If McDaniels can comfortably get 15 a game alongside Ant and KAT this maybe another trade we could position ourselves for at the deadline

MIN out: KAT, Milton, Moore, 2024 swap, 2028 swap
MEM: Smart, JJJ


I like your idea of making a defensive minded team. But MEM have been building this grit-n-grind identity from Gasol-Randolph-Allen years to current days. They wont trade Smart and JJJ for Towns. But as I said I like what MEM management does. First, they assembled roster with two DPOYs, second they got two elite shooters Bane and Kennard, and perfect veteran Adams. They did everything to build a balanced roster around elite slasher Ja, I do believe that if Ja can mature (which is a very big if) they have chance to be 2nd team in West.

Now back to question. I think MIN is heading in the same direction as team identity. We have two DPOYs caliber players, we have a perfect veteran Conley and Anderson, and elite slasher Edwards. What we lack is a movement shooters like Bane and Kennard. I think we will try to wrokaround it by asking Conley and Towns to play more as shooters.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#509 » by Note30 » Mon Aug 28, 2023 2:23 pm

minimus wrote:
Note30 wrote:Just picking through another possibility is the growth of McDaniels on the offensive end next to Ant. If McDaniels can comfortably get 15 a game alongside Ant and KAT this maybe another trade we could position ourselves for at the deadline

MIN out: KAT, Milton, Moore, 2024 swap, 2028 swap
MEM: Smart, JJJ


I like your idea of making a defensive minded team. But MEM have been building this grit-n-grind identity from Gasol-Randolph-Allen years to current days. They wont trade Smart and JJJ for Towns. But as I said I like what MEM management does. First, they assembled roster with two DPOYs, second they got two elite shooters Bane and Kennard, and perfect veteran Adams. They did everything to build a balanced roster around elite slasher Ja, I do believe that if Ja can mature (which is a very big if) they have chance to be 2nd team in West.

Now back to question. I think MIN is heading in the same direction as team identity. We have two DPOYs caliber players, we have a perfect veteran Conley and Anderson, and elite slasher Edwards. What we lack is a movement shooters like Bane and Kennard. I think we will try to wrokaround it by asking Conley and Towns to play more as shooters.


Towns and hopefully Milton, NAW, or Troy Brown Jr.

I think relying on Conley that much to do multiple things is a bit much because he is nearing retirement
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#510 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 28, 2023 2:34 pm

Note30 wrote:Just picking through another possibility is the growth of McDaniels on the offensive end next to Ant. If McDaniels can comfortably get 15 a game alongside Ant and KAT this maybe another trade we could position ourselves for at the deadline

MIN out: KAT, Milton, Moore, 2024 swap, 2028 swap
MEM: Smart, JJJ

A lineup of three defensive players of the year alongside Ant and McDaniels would arguably be the best defense in the league.

Smart / Conley
Ant / NAW
McDaniels / Brown Jr.
JJJ / Anderson
Gobert / Reid

Smart, Ant, McDaniels, JJJ could all comfortably swap 1-4 interchangeably with Smart, McD, and JJJ being able to switch 1-5. If Ant can watch the passing lanes and Gobert is free to roam, our defense could be historically great.

With a bench of Conley, NAW, Anderson, and Reid? We would have to convince Anderson and Conley to sign team friendly deals but....

This team could feasibly win a chip within the next two years.


Given how good JJJ is defensively [And a Net+ Offensively], there is no way this works for Memphis.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#511 » by minimus » Fri Sep 1, 2023 11:47 am

Ingram does not look good in national team. But would you trade Towns for Ingram, Kira Lewis, 2024 FRP (LAL)?

https://youtu.be/ouTIhFGHW9U?si=6BiMcs4VRNrU_EOC

Gobert/Reid + Garza
Ingram/Anderson/Miller
McDaniels/Brown/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Moore
Conley/Milton/JMac + Lewis

NOP can replace Ingram with Troy Murphy and Herb Jones.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#512 » by frankenwolf » Fri Sep 1, 2023 2:45 pm

minimus wrote:Ingram does not look good in national team. But would you trade Towns for Ingram, Kira Lewis, 2024 FRP (LAL)?

https://youtu.be/ouTIhFGHW9U?si=6BiMcs4VRNrU_EOC

Gobert/Reid + Garza
Ingram/Anderson/Miller
McDaniels/Brown/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Moore
Conley/Milton/JMac + Lewis

NOP can replace Ingram with Troy Murphy and Herb Jones.


Nope. I would not trade Towns. I may be talked into Gobert, but not right now.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#513 » by TimberKat » Fri Sep 1, 2023 3:52 pm

frankenwolf wrote:
minimus wrote:Ingram does not look good in national team. But would you trade Towns for Ingram, Kira Lewis, 2024 FRP (LAL)?

https://youtu.be/ouTIhFGHW9U?si=6BiMcs4VRNrU_EOC

Gobert/Reid + Garza
Ingram/Anderson/Miller
McDaniels/Brown/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Moore
Conley/Milton/JMac + Lewis

NOP can replace Ingram with Troy Murphy and Herb Jones.


Nope. I would not trade Towns. I may be talked into Gobert, but not right now.

I don't think Ingram wants to play with Ant after FIBA. I think he likely feels Ant is the reason he isn't getting more shots :D Just guessing as I didn't watch most of the games so far.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#514 » by shrink » Fri Sep 1, 2023 6:41 pm

TimberKat wrote:
frankenwolf wrote:
minimus wrote:Ingram does not look good in national team. But would you trade Towns for Ingram, Kira Lewis, 2024 FRP (LAL)?

https://youtu.be/ouTIhFGHW9U?si=6BiMcs4VRNrU_EOC

Gobert/Reid + Garza
Ingram/Anderson/Miller
McDaniels/Brown/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Moore
Conley/Milton/JMac + Lewis

NOP can replace Ingram with Troy Murphy and Herb Jones.


Nope. I would not trade Towns. I may be talked into Gobert, but not right now.

I don't think Ingram wants to play with Ant after FIBA. I think he likely feels Ant is the reason he isn't getting more shots :D Just guessing as I didn't watch most of the games so far.

I think that’s a great guess then because his play, and his body language, has been quite a disappointment, particularly in today’s game.

Love KAT or hate him, he has always been a loyal soldier for Minnesota. He never complains about his teammates, front office or coach, and over his time here, he’s certainly had reason to gripe a few times. He always does interviews after every game, and takes the blame for any losses, even when it’s not his fault. He has never even hinted about wanting to go to a better team, and reportedly has never leveraged that threat to pressure the front office, like most stars of his caliber do.

I get that Towns is not the bright new shiny thing, but I don’t think there are many areas when Ingram is superior to KAT. But if we trade KAT, I would want to see someone return who expresses interest in being here, or is substantially better to offset the risk that he walks.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#515 » by BlacJacMac » Fri Sep 1, 2023 6:46 pm

TimberKat wrote:
frankenwolf wrote:
minimus wrote:Ingram does not look good in national team. But would you trade Towns for Ingram, Kira Lewis, 2024 FRP (LAL)?

https://youtu.be/ouTIhFGHW9U?si=6BiMcs4VRNrU_EOC

Gobert/Reid + Garza
Ingram/Anderson/Miller
McDaniels/Brown/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Moore
Conley/Milton/JMac + Lewis

NOP can replace Ingram with Troy Murphy and Herb Jones.


Nope. I would not trade Towns. I may be talked into Gobert, but not right now.

I don't think Ingram wants to play with Ant after FIBA. I think he likely feels Ant is the reason he isn't getting more shots :D Just guessing as I didn't watch most of the games so far.


I think Ingram is a fantastic complimentary player, but he's not the 1st option that he thinks he is.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#516 » by TimberKat » Tue Sep 5, 2023 2:03 pm

Can we get Haliburton on this team without giving up Ant? Maybe JMcD + (Gobert or Towns) and a bunch of picks :D. He is like the perfect 2nd or 3rd best player on a team. Indiana is too small of a market for him :D. How about JMcD, Reid, 3 1st, Conley for Hali :D ?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#517 » by jpatrick » Tue Sep 5, 2023 2:41 pm

TimberKat wrote:Can we get Haliburton on this team without giving up Ant? Maybe JMcD + (Gobert or Towns) and a bunch of picks :D. He is like the perfect 2nd or 3rd best player on a team. Indiana is too small of a market for him :D. How about JMcD, Reid, 3 1st, Conley for Hali :D ?


I agree that he’s a perfect fit next to Ant. And no, we literally have nothing to offer. McDaniels doesn’t have quite that value yet. We can trade no picks because they all went to Gobert. And Towns/Gobert are of no interest to Indiana. Think about it this way, Haliburton is their Ant, as far as the main building block for their future.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#518 » by Guest84 » Tue Sep 5, 2023 3:45 pm

https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-antonio-spurs-trade-karl-anthony-towns-victor-wembanyama-minnesota-timberwolves

The trade proposals for Towns lately seem ridiculous. Idk what his actual value is but these writers are really trying to send him elsewhere for pennies on the dollar.

Not to mention already trying to get Ant to force a trade before his extension even kicks in. LoL the media is just all over the place…
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#519 » by Baseline81 » Tue Sep 5, 2023 3:58 pm

Guest84 wrote:https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-antonio-spurs-trade-karl-anthony-towns-victor-wembanyama-minnesota-timberwolves

The trade proposals for Towns lately seem ridiculous. Idk what his actual value is but these writers are really trying to send him elsewhere for pennies on the dollar.

Not to mention already trying to get Ant to force a trade before his extension even kicks in. LoL the media is just all over the place…

There are plenty of sites you can immediately discredit, Bleacher Report is one such source.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition 

Post#520 » by BlacJacMac » Tue Sep 5, 2023 5:09 pm

TimberKat wrote:Can we get Haliburton on this team without giving up Ant? Maybe JMcD + (Gobert or Towns) and a bunch of picks :D. He is like the perfect 2nd or 3rd best player on a team. Indiana is too small of a market for him :D. How about JMcD, Reid, 3 1st, Conley for Hali :D ?


If we ever had a chance at Hali, it would've been if Sac was interested in KAT instead of Sabonis.

Now we'll have to wait a few years until he forces his way onto the Wolves to play with Ant.

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