Moderators: trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal, Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ
One_and_Done wrote:I see West struggling to score a point.
.Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.
Colbinii wrote:I need to be less busy
Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.
rk2023 wrote:Colbinii wrote:I need to be less busy
You were here in spirit for the Dirk crew!
Colbinii wrote:rk2023 wrote:Colbinii wrote:I need to be less busy
You were here in spirit for the Dirk crew!
No more traveling until I go to Japan in October.
Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.
Doctor MJ wrote:Induction Vote tally:
Dirk - 6 (rk, AEnigma, Clyde, OSNB, Ohayo, Gibson)
Karl - 5 (trex, ltj, beast, Joao, Karl)
Durant - 2 (OaD, trelos)
Paul - 2 (Samurai, iggy)
Erving - 1 (HBK)
No majority. Going to 2nd votes between Dirk & Karl:
Dirk - 3 (HBK, iggy, trelos)
Karl - 2 (OaD, Samurai,
Dirk takes it 9-7.
Dirk Nowitzki is Inducted at #18.
Nomination Vote tally:
Chuck - 4 (rk, trex, Clyde, OSNB)
Nash - 1 (AEnigma)
Moses - 1 (ltj)
Giannis - 5 (OaD, Samurai, beast, trelos, Ohayo)
Jokic - 3 (HBK, iggy, Doc)
Stockton - 1 (Joao)
Pettit - 1 (Gibson)
No majority. Going to 2nd vote between Chuck & Giannis:
Chuck - 0 (none)
Giannis - 1 (iggy)
neither - 6 (AEnigma, ltj, HBK, Joao, Gibson, Doc)
Giannis takes it 6-4.
Giannis Antetokounmpo is added to the Nominee list.
Fundamentals21 wrote:Well deserved. Germany produces some quality guys, IMO. Just watching Franz Wagner now gives me some joy.
penbeast0 wrote:Fundamentals21 wrote:Well deserved. Germany produces some quality guys, IMO. Just watching Franz Wagner now gives me some joy.
And a shout out to Detlef Schrempf, one of my favorite players.
OldSchoolNoBull wrote:
Dirk actually won 11-7 - there were votes from homecourtloss and Colbini that you missed. Doesn't change anything, just wanted to put it for posterity that DIrk's gap was a little bigger than reported.
Doctor MJ wrote:OldSchoolNoBull wrote:
Dirk actually won 11-7 - there were votes from homecourtloss and Colbini that you missed. Doesn't change anything, just wanted to put it for posterity that DIrk's gap was a little bigger than reported.
Well, I do make mistakes and I must have missed homecourtloss, but I didn't really miss Colbinii. He was just too late for my count.
MyUniBroDavis wrote:Franco wrote:70sFan wrote:I have no idea, just like I have no idea how many times someone like Paolo Banchero could beat Durant one on one. We have heard many anecdotes of roleplayers getting better of stars in 1 on 1 pickups.
My completly uneducated guess is that Durant would have won the clear majority of these matchups, especially with modern officiating. I can't say anything else in this matter.
You're being generous, every once in a while a high school prospect comes out and beats NBA players 1 on 1.
Ok but cooper flag is insane lol
LukaTheGOAT wrote:MyUniBroDavis wrote:Franco wrote:
You're being generous, every once in a while a high school prospect comes out and beats NBA players 1 on 1.
Ok but cooper flag is insane lol
Story isn't true per Cooper.
Anyways, KD, Harden, and Embiid might be top 3 guys in 1 v 1.
Your nash comparison is where you lose most people.Joao Saraiva wrote:One_and_Done wrote:Stockton was an all-star/all-nba type guard, not a star. The stars are who we ahould be discussing now. If PJ Tucker had really high impact stats should I rank him top 100? The answer is pretty obvious. You can't build a contending team around Stockton as the best player.
If he had the record of assists in NBA history, steals in NBA history, high impact stats, a great win%, great longevity, fantastic shooting and all time series where he outplayed Magic for example... well then you might want to consider him in the top 30, let alone top 100.
Let's not pretend Stockton isn't an unique type of player. He's a 9 time assist champion. He lead the playoffs in APG 10 times. He was a 60ts% type of guy before guys jacked up a ton of 3s, so he was definitely efficient. He definitely belongs in the conversation.
If you can build a contender arround Nash you can definitely build a contender arround Stockton.
And you can argue Stockton was our best player from 88 to 92.
I agree with this. I have him in that 28-32 range.Gibson22 wrote:Stockton is absolutely a 30ish player. arguing that he's around 50 is blasphemous. yes he's not a deadly scorer, he isn't a nash, doncic, etc level of megacreator and doesn't like automatically give you a #1 offense like nash but he's the most consistent and durable player you can ever find. he will play 20 seasons, never miss a game, and consistently give you good defense, hit his shots, feed the big man in the post, always do the right thing. he's a consistent positive on both ends. there aren't enough guys that have an argument above him to not have him around 30 at worst. the SECURITY of having a guy who never misses a game, never makes a bad decision, you always know what he's gonna give you is unpriceable. stockton is probably 26-27
canada_dry wrote:Your nash comparison is where you lose most people.Joao Saraiva wrote:One_and_Done wrote:Stockton was an all-star/all-nba type guard, not a star. The stars are who we ahould be discussing now. If PJ Tucker had really high impact stats should I rank him top 100? The answer is pretty obvious. You can't build a contending team around Stockton as the best player.
If he had the record of assists in NBA history, steals in NBA history, high impact stats, a great win%, great longevity, fantastic shooting and all time series where he outplayed Magic for example... well then you might want to consider him in the top 30, let alone top 100.
Let's not pretend Stockton isn't an unique type of player. He's a 9 time assist champion. He lead the playoffs in APG 10 times. He was a 60ts% type of guy before guys jacked up a ton of 3s, so he was definitely efficient. He definitely belongs in the conversation.
If you can build a contender arround Nash you can definitely build a contender arround Stockton.
And you can argue Stockton was our best player from 88 to 92.
Btw i rank stockton above 35. And above nash. I think he should be getting brought up before nash. Unless this is a peaks list ofc. And nash is my all time favorite player .
But thats due to Stocktons records and longevity over nash. Resume matters in the all time lists. To me especially.
Nash was a better player and better offensive engine. Stockton had a clear inability to scale up in regards to his scoring as we see evidence of in the playoffs. More shots. No real increase in his scoring. Less effecient in getting the same amount of points. Some clear offensive limitations as a result.
Nash had NO such problems.
So no. Just cause nash could do it doesnt mean stockton could. Theres a skill gap.
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Doctor MJ wrote:1st Induction Vote: Karl Malone
2nd Induction Vote: Dirk Nowitzki
This is in keeping with the order I've had these guys since they got nominated.
Still siding with Malone. Still siding with Nowitzki above everyone else.
In the end, I think the best way to understand how I'm looking at Malone here is that I think we'd all tend to see Malone differently if he'd broken through and won a title, and now only could that have happened, the big guys who kept that from happening are already voted in now.
OhayoKD wrote:Aside from his actual championship win, Dirk had 3 seperate playoffs where he ran into the eventual champions and his team played them the closest(by m.o.v and games) with a injury taking him out of a series with his team tied 1-1 against the champs(also led by a guy who has already been voted in). 98 is the only year Malone can say he pushed the best team harder than everyone else.
OhayoKD wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:1st Induction Vote: Karl Malone
2nd Induction Vote: Dirk Nowitzki
This is in keeping with the order I've had these guys since they got nominated.
Still siding with Malone. Still siding with Nowitzki above everyone else.
In the end, I think the best way to understand how I'm looking at Malone here is that I think we'd all tend to see Malone differently if he'd broken through and won a title, and now only could that have happened, the big guys who kept that from happening are already voted in now.
Have you done this exercise with other players?
Aside from his actual championship win, Dirk had 3 seperate playoffs where he ran into the eventual champions and his team played them the closest(by m.o.v and games) with a injury taking him out of a series with his team tied 1-1 against the champs(also led by a guy who has already been voted in). 98 is the only year Malone can say he pushed the best team harder than everyone else.
How would we see harden if CP3 doesn't go down vs the warriors with them up a game?
Are you giving Malone the same treatment you're giving the guys you have him over?
