why does shaqs rapm suck when his wowys good?

[ShaqAttac]

lakers were really good even when it was just him and no kobe and only average when it was him and kob. so why does rapm hate him? i seen his teams dont do so good in the playoffs, but shouldnt his regular szn stuff look awesome?

[Im Your Father]

It doesn't?

[HeartBreakKid]

He got worse on defense and often had to play himself into shape. I'm sure that played into it.

Which years are you talking about in particular? He's had seasons with top RAPM.

[ShaqAttac]

He got worse on defense and often had to play himself into shape. I'm sure that played into it.

Which years are you talking about in particular? He's had seasons with top RAPM.

in all the rapm stuff i see he looks worse than players like duncan and kg and chris paul and steph. even draymond. but by wowy he should be close to duncan and kg right

[Im Your Father]

IDK this is the RAPM I'd always seen cited most often on this board: https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/01-14-rapm

Edit: Oops I guess link's broken now.

[rk2023]

Worth noting there are multiple RAPM sources from different creators. Don’t know how he grades in most of the ones I’ve seen, but in Doc’s Chronology sheet… he is the best non LBJ/Nash offensive player by far iirc.

[rk2023]

IDK this is the RAPM I'd always seen cited most often on this board: https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/01-14-rapm

That site was purged a while back. I have a web archive of it / the numbers stored, which I could access later (on the road currently).

[ShaqAttac]

Worth noting there are multiple RAPM sources from different creators. Don’t know how he grades in most of the ones I’ve seen, but in Doc’s Chronology sheet… he is the best non LBJ/Nash offensive player by far iirc.

hes ahead of curry?

is he as good as bron kg or duncan in some? also how about cp3. home court posted cp3s rapm and it looked way better than id think

[rk2023]

Worth noting there are multiple RAPM sources from different creators. Don’t know how he grades in most of the ones I’ve seen, but in Doc’s Chronology sheet… he is the best non LBJ/Nash offensive player by far iirc.

hes ahead of curry?

is he as good as bron kg or duncan in some? also how about cp3. home court posted cp3s rapm and it looked way better than id think

Worth noting that the values only span until 2012.

[ShaqAttac]

Worth noting there are multiple RAPM sources from different creators. Don’t know how he grades in most of the ones I’ve seen, but in Doc’s Chronology sheet… he is the best non LBJ/Nash offensive player by far iirc.

hes ahead of curry?

is he as good as bron kg or duncan in some? also how about cp3. home court posted cp3s rapm and it looked way better than id think

Worth noting that the values only span until 2012.

ohh

well if hes still behind kg, bron and duncan that dont help much

[ronnymac2]

hes ahead of curry?

is he as good as bron kg or duncan in some? also how about cp3. home court posted cp3s rapm and it looked way better than id think

Worth noting that the values only span until 2012.

ohh

well if hes still behind kg, bron and duncan that dont help much

Is being behind those three in a stat that damning though?

[homecourtloss]

Worth noting that the values only span until 2012.

ohh

well if hes still behind kg, bron and duncan that dont help much

Is being behind those three in a stat that damning though?

He has some monster on and then on-off numbers but not as relatively impressive RAPM numbers even though the top 65 of JE’s single season RS+PS RAPM has 8 Seasons, 7 KG seasons, 6 Duncan seasons and 10 LeBron seasons.




You look at his on-off RS and PS samples….

[OhayoKD]

ohh

well if hes still behind kg, bron and duncan that dont help much

Is being behind those three in a stat that damning though?

He has some monster on and then on-off numbers but not as relatively impressive RAPM numbers even though the top 65 of JE’s single season RS+PS RAPM has 8 Seasons, 7 KG seasons, 6 Duncan seasons and 10 LeBron seasons.




You look at his on-off RS and PS samples….

I really do wish all the rapm sets came with a visual showing possession count like cheema's does. From what I've seen over shorter-time frames, the idea that KG was clearly more valuable than duncan per data-ball is mostly coming from those lower possession boston seasons.

Whether its this set, cheemas stuff, or cryptbeam, applying a 500, 000 possession filter leaves early-mid ought garnett and duncan both getting a couple of years at the top

Doesn't really matter vs the shaqs or stephs, but people looking at just the per-possession marks to conclude kg was clearly more valuable is pretty bleh

[DraymondGold]

Not sure it does suck. In Goldstein RAPM (the traditional source for RAPM along with Engelman), from 1997–2019, here's how player season rankings go vs other modern big men:

First place ranking:
0 times: Dirk
2 times: Shaq
3 times: Garnett
4 times: Duncan

Top 3:
4 times: Dirk
6 times: Shaq, Duncan
8 times: Garnett

Top 5:
7 times: Duncan
8 times: Shaq , Dirk
11 times: Garnett

Top 10:
9 times: Shaq
13 times: Duncan
14 times: Dirk
15 times: Garnett

And remember, this is missing four seasons from Shaq from 1993–1996. Many people have 1995 as one of Shaq's top 5 years ever. In AuPM, 1994 Shaq ranks 6th, 1995 Shaq ranks 4th, 1996 Shaq ranks 10th, and we have no 1993 Shaq. If we apply these rankings to the above, this would give him 3 more Top 10 appearances, 1 more top 5 appearance, while discounting his rookie season when he might have been a Top 10 player.

Season rankings aren't everything, this is a rate stat (not per-season value), but "shaqs rapm suck" seems like a pretty obvious misinterpretation of the information we have. Allow me to counter with: "shaqs rapm gud"

[70sFan]

They don't? Shaq looks like top 5 player in the last 25 years basically.