Gold Medalist Questions the NBA Champs Being Deemed "World" Champs

[Mirotic12]

I am aware since LuDux talked about it earlier. And, yes, technically, it is a world club championship. The problem is that neither NBA nor EuroLeague teams compete in that championship at the moment (and they haven't ever since it got revived in 2013). Therefore, the championship's prestige is pretty damn low.

The EuroLeague teams were in it every year until 2015. It was just that EuroLeague vs. FIBA war that banned them. The FIBA and EuroLeague dispute is ending anyway. The people that caused it are no longer employed by FIBA or EuroLeague.

But yes, EuroLeague was officially a part of the revised tournament. I know they were, because I saw some of those with EuroLeague teams in it.

2013 - Olympiacos
2014 - Maccabi Tel Aviv
2015 - Real Madrid

They would still be playing at it now, if it wasn't for the war that started. But again, that's finally coming to an end. The EuroLeague had even said before that they would have kept playing at it. So actually, yes the EuroLeague teams were a part of the new tournament that rebooted up again in 2013.

[Mirotic12]

Wasn't the tournament inactive from 88 to 95 and then again from 98 to 2012?

Yeah, so Intercontinental Cup started in the 60s and it always had EuroLeague teams in it.

Then in the late 80s, they switched from the Intercontinental Cup to the McDonald's Open Championship. The reason why was because the Intercontinental Cup was FIBA's and the NBA wanted their own tournament, if they were going to compete in the world club championship. So they made a new tournament that was a joint NBA / FIBA tournament. And it had mixed rules and mixed refs and stuff like that. It was a way for the NBA to market the league in Europe, as it took place in major European cities like Rome, Madrid, Paris, etc., and it was a way to make good sponsor money with McDonald's. And the EuroLeague teams were in that tournament.

Then it got cancelled for awhile, so FIBA brought back the Intercontinental Cup in 1996 I think it was, because Panathinaikos played in it, and they won the EuroLeague in 1996. So again, the EuroLeague teams were in it. Then the NBA decided to bring back the McDonald's Championship in 1997.

But what happened was, when the big EuroLeague clubs broke away from FIBA and formed their own private league (the current version of EuroLeague), FIBA banned the EuroLeague teams from the world championship. The same way they banned them just in the recent years.

And since the EuroLeague teams were out, the NBA didn't want the tournament anymore, because the main point of it was to grow the league's interest in the European market.

After that happened, FIBA just didn't renew it, probably as some kind of anger at the EuroLeague teams or something. Who knows really? But anyway, yeah, they then brought it back in 2013, with the EuroLeague clubs included. I remember seeing Olympiacos, Maccabi, and Real at that tournament after it was brough back in 2013.

Then the second FIBA vs. EuroLeague war started in 2016, or 2017, or somewhere around there, and so the EuroLeague clubs got banned again. So the only reason the EuroLeague clubs were ever not in it was during the two eras when FIBA and EuroLeague were fighting over who got to control the league. Other than that, it's always included the EuroLeague teams, even in the most recent version that came back in 2013.

[dolphinatik]

he is not wrong, NBA champs are NBA champs not world champs. But lets be clear if the best of the best US Basketball players played vs the best of any other country the US would win.

More importantly why do we care what an athlete of one sport think about a sport they dont play.

[Mirotic12]

That’s very funny actually. Because those games illustrate the point. The other teams are trying as hard as possible because they know they are playing against the best teams while NBA teams treat it like a scrimmage.

Bro, you said the G-League Ignite would beat any non NBA team, I think you should sit this one out. You clearly have zero idea of what you’re talking about.

Indeed, that was a freaking hilarious comment. It really showcases the level of jingoism that we're talking about here.

Yeah, let's clear up this idea that any G-League team is the best non-NBA team in the world.


2019 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

Flamengo Rio de Janeiro 90 - Austin Spurs 58

A team from Brazil beat the G-League champs by 32 points.

San Lorenzo Buenos Aires 77 - Austin Spurs 59

A team from Argentina beat the G-League champs by 18 points.


2020 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

Canarias Tenerife 110 - Rio Grande Valley Vipers 89

A team from one of the two secondary pan European leagues, so either the second or third best league in Europe, beat the G-League champs by 21 points.

San Lorenzo Buenos Aires 96 - Rio Grande Valley Vipers 90

A team from Argentina beat the G-League champs by 6 points.


2021 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

No G-League champion because of Covid


2022 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

Flamengo Rio de Janeiro 94 - Lakeland Magic 71

A team from Brazil beat the G-League champs by 23 points.

Lakeland Magic 113 - Zamalek 78

The G-League champs beat a team from Egypt.


2023 FIBA Intercontinental Cup (1):

Sao Paulo 91 - Rio Grande Valley Vipers 70

A team from Brazil beat the G-League champs by 21 points.

Rio Grande Valley Vipers 107 - US Monastir 84

The G-League champs beat a team from Tunisia.


The G-League champions are 0-6 against teams from Brazil, Argentina, and second/third tier level European leagues....But on the bright side, they are 2-0 against teams from Egypt and Tunisia.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Bro, you said the G-League Ignite would beat any non NBA team, I think you should sit this one out. You clearly have zero idea of what you’re talking about.

Indeed, that was a freaking hilarious comment. It really showcases the level of jingoism that we're talking about here.

Yeah, let's clear up this idea that any G-League team is the best non-NBA team in the world.


2019 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

Flamengo Rio de Janeiro 90 - Austin Spurs 58

A team from Brazil beat the G-League champs by 32 points.

San Lorenzo Buenos Aires 77 - Austin Spurs 59

A team from Argentina beat the G-League champs by 18 points.


2020 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

Canarias Tenerife 110 - Rio Grande Valley Vipers 89

A team from one of the two secondary pan European leagues, so either the second or third best league in Europe, beat the G-League champs by 21 points.

San Lorenzo Buenos Aires 96 - Rio Grande Valley Vipers 90

A team from Argentina beat the G-League champs by 6 points.


2021 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

No G-League champion because of Covid


2022 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

Flamengo Rio de Janeiro 94 - Lakeland Magic 71

A team from Brazil beat the G-League champs by 23 points.

Lakeland Magic 113 - Zamalek 78

The G-League champs beat a team from Egypt.


2023 FIBA Intercontinental Cup (1):

Sao Paulo 91 - Rio Grande Valley Vipers 70

A team from Brazil beat the G-League champs by 21 points.

Rio Grande Valley Vipers 107 - US Monastir 84

The G-League champs beat a team from Tunisia.


So yeah, the G-League champions are 0-6 against teams from Brazil, Argentina, and second tier level European leagues....But on the bright side, they are 2-0 against teams from Egypt and Tunisia.

Reading comprehension is key

[Mirotic12]

Indeed, that was a freaking hilarious comment. It really showcases the level of jingoism that we're talking about here.

Yeah, let's clear up this idea that any G-League team is the best non-NBA team in the world.


2019 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

Flamengo Rio de Janeiro 90 - Austin Spurs 58

A team from Brazil beat the G-League champs by 32 points.

San Lorenzo Buenos Aires 77 - Austin Spurs 59

A team from Argentina beat the G-League champs by 18 points.


2020 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

Canarias Tenerife 110 - Rio Grande Valley Vipers 89

A team from one of the two secondary pan European leagues, so either the second or third best league in Europe, beat the G-League champs by 21 points.

San Lorenzo Buenos Aires 96 - Rio Grande Valley Vipers 90

A team from Argentina beat the G-League champs by 6 points.


2021 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

No G-League champion because of Covid


2022 FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

Flamengo Rio de Janeiro 94 - Lakeland Magic 71

A team from Brazil beat the G-League champs by 23 points.

Lakeland Magic 113 - Zamalek 78

The G-League champs beat a team from Egypt.


2023 FIBA Intercontinental Cup (1):

Sao Paulo 91 - Rio Grande Valley Vipers 70

A team from Brazil beat the G-League champs by 21 points.

Rio Grande Valley Vipers 107 - US Monastir 84

The G-League champs beat a team from Tunisia.


So yeah, the G-League champions are 0-6 against teams from Brazil, Argentina, and second tier level European leagues....But on the bright side, they are 2-0 against teams from Egypt and Tunisia.

Reading comprehension is key

So you still think that any team from the G-League is the best non-NBA team in the world? Even after knowing that teams from Brazil and Argentina blew out the G-League champions on multiple occasions?

[D.Brasco]

he is not wrong, NBA champs are NBA champs not world champs. But lets be clear if the best of the best US Basketball players played vs the best of any other country the US would win.

More importantly why do we care what an athlete of one sport think about a sport they dont play.

That misses the point though about the modern NBA. The NBA is an international league now and has been for years, look at the last few MVP winners, look at the most recent #1 draft pick.

The best players in the world American or not, play in the NBA. You can be born in almost any country and make the NBA if of course you are supremely talented. This guy couldn't have picked a worse example to make his point.

[chitownsports4ever]

he is not wrong, NBA champs are NBA champs not world champs. But lets be clear if the best of the best US Basketball players played vs the best of any other country the US would win.

More importantly why do we care what an athlete of one sport think about a sport they dont play.

That misses the point though about the modern NBA. The NBA is an international league now and has been for years, look at the last few MVP winners, look at the most recent #1 draft pick.

The best players in the world American or not, play in the NBA. You can be born in almost any country and make the NBA if of course you are supremely talented. This guy couldn't have picked a worse example to make his point.

Exactly and thats why he was wrong because hes trying to put his own parameter's on a sport hes doesn't even participate in. You notice how you haven't heard a bunch of foreign born players come out agreeing with him ?

The problem that some seem reluctant to admit is that the NBA is the pinnacle of basketball both team and individual wise not FIBA and not the Euroleague and certainly not the Olympics . There is a reason why Victor Wembanaya left France to come to the US and not wait to play in FIBA to get that much coveted WC medal .

Amongst basketball players not just American the NBA and any award attached to it simply has more prestige and standing in the sport of basketball but I must say that representing your country also has a certain level of prestige as well and this where Noah wet oiff the rials because he thinks hims wearing a Jersey with his name on it is somehow the same as Joker wearing a jersey with Denver on it

"The thing that hurts me the most is that I have to watch the NBA finals, and they have 'World champion' on their heads. World champion of what? The United States?" he said. "Don't get me wrong, I love the US at times, but that ain't the world."

"We have almost every country out here fighting, thriving, putting on their flag to show that they are represented," the athlete continued. "There ain't no flags in the NBA."

In Noahs profession of track ands field the pinnacle of the sport is the worlds championship and the Olympics but those are not the pinnacle of the sport of basketball . Thats why his comments were straight disrespectful

[msmoore66]

While I dont think it particularly matters- Why do they need to be called the World Champions when everyone knows that the NBA is the best competition in the world with the best players, surely NBA Champions carries enough weight?

In fact doesn't calling them World Champions just raise eyebrows when its a National League, not an International League (participated by National teams, not club teams).

[kg01]

It's an apples to desk chairs comparison.

Although it would still be stupid, a more equivalent thing to say would be that the NBA season is basically the Olympics every year.

When you win it, it effectively is the World title.

There, try to unpack that.

[AussieCeltic]

Pop agrees

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[Big J]

he is not wrong, NBA champs are NBA champs not world champs. But lets be clear if the best of the best US Basketball players played vs the best of any other country the US would win.

More importantly why do we care what an athlete of one sport think about a sport they dont play.

That misses the point though about the modern NBA. The NBA is an international league now and has been for years, look at the last few MVP winners, look at the most recent #1 draft pick.

The best players in the world American or not, play in the NBA. You can be born in almost any country and make the NBA if of course you are supremely talented. This guy couldn't have picked a worse example to make his point.

He could have picked American Football and it would have been a worse example.

[eyeatoma]

Pop agrees

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The Goat coach has spoken, we can put this to rest now. I'm glad he chimed in, his opinion carries a lot of weight.

[Dr Aki]

Honestly I don't know why the NBA and FIBA don't use this opportunity to have a pre season exhibition with Euroleague winners much like they did for football between the CL winner and Copa Libertadores winner in years past

[jk31]

Honestly I don't know why the NBA and FIBA don't use this opportunity to have a pre season exhibition with Euroleague winners much like they did for football between the CL winner and Copa Libertadores winner in years past

even if they do that, none of those clubs would be a world champion. only national teams can bear the tag "world champion", not clubs!

[Nuntius]

Bro, you said the G-League Ignite would beat any non NBA team, I think you should sit this one out. You clearly have zero idea of what you’re talking about.

Indeed, that was a freaking hilarious comment. It really showcases the level of jingoism that we're talking about here.

No it’s just a commentary on how much better the NBA system is, including it’s farm team. The best players from around the world are willing to play in the G league to get to the NBA.

Scoot/Jenkins/Mojave/Leonard Miller/Mika

Beat Wemby in an exhibition and lost the 2nd game because Scoot got hurt. And Wemby is Wemby and is worlds better than any player outside the league right now. And also where does he play now?

Again the point is the disparity is massive. Which team outside the NBA beats that team in say a 7 game series? Their youth is a problem but that team definitely has more talent.

The Ignite thing started as hyperbolic but I think it’s a better point than the alternative, that any team outside the NBA could hang with an NBA team.

The NBA is much, much better. That is a given and no one should dispute it.

The G-League or the NCAA is NOT better. The claim itself is ridiculous.

These are the results of the G-League teams that have participated in the FIBA Intercontinental Cup:

Flamengo - Austin Spurs: 90-58

San Lorenzo - Austin Spurs: 77-59

Tenerife - Rio Grande Valley Vipers: 110-89

San Lorenzo - Rio Grande Valley Vipers: 96-90

Flamengo - Lakeland Magic: 94-71

Zamalek - Lakeland Magic: 78-113

Sao Paulo - Rio Grande Valley Vipers: 91-70

US Monastir - Rio Grande Valley Vipers: 84-107

So, the overall record of G-League teams in the FIBA Intercontinental Cup is 2-6. That is a .250 winning percentage.

They have a 2-0 record against the champion of the BAL (an African league established jointly by the NBA and FIBA), they have lost the one game they've played against Tenerife (representing the Basketball Champions League since EuroLeague teams do not participate in the cup right now) and they have a 0-5 record against the teams from South America. It is obvious that they couldn't hang with the top level of the South American teams. And they couldn't hang with Tenerife either, a team that usually finishes 6th or 7th in the ACB (the ACB playoffs have 8 slots so Tenerife is basically a low-seed).

And keep in mind that all the G-League teams who competed in that competition were that year's G-League champion. We're talking about the good G-League teams here and they weren't able to hang. The G-League Ignite are NOT a good G-League team. They finished 11th this year with a 11-21 record. And that's normal since they aren't really an actual team. They're not built to win games, they're built to showcase young players. That is the team's role.

So, which team outside of the NBA beats the G-League Ignite in a 7 game series? The answer is:

Every EuroLeague team
The top teams from South America
Low-seeded playoff teams from the ACB
The top teams from the Basketball Champions League
Possibly a couple of teams from the EuroCup level

And probably a good number of above average teams in a number of other leagues

The fact that Wemby's team split their series with the Ignite is telling. The team that Wemby was on was NOT a particularly good team. Yes, they made the LNB Finals while beating some good teams along the way but that was primarily because Wemby and especially Bilal overachieved and kept improving as the season went on. But the team itself, Metropolitans 92, isn't all that notable. They are a mid-level team in the LNB and an above average team at the EuroCup level. The fact that the Ignite couldn't even beat that team says all that needs to be said.

So, to give a definitive answer to your question:

There are A LOT of teams outside of the NBA that would beat the G-League Ignite in a 7 game series. If you want a hard number, I'd say that this number is somewhere between 30 and 40 teams.

The G-League Ignite is NOT a good team. It is a team that has some amazing players that will grow into superstars but it is not an actual team. It is NOT built to actually win games. And that's fine since that's not their role. So, yeah, your argument was and still remains absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: I actually completely forgot about the NBL there. Thanks to AussieCeltic for reminding me. I'm raising the number to 40-45 teams.

[Nuntius]

Indeed, that was a freaking hilarious comment. It really showcases the level of jingoism that we're talking about here.

No it’s just a commentary on how much better the NBA system is, including it’s farm team. The best players from around the world are willing to play in the G league to get to the NBA.

Scoot/Jenkins/Mojave/Leonard Miller/Mika

Beat Wemby in an exhibition and lost the 2nd game because Scoot got hurt. And Wemby is Wemby and is worlds better than any player outside the league right now. And also where does he play now?

Again the point is the disparity is massive. Which team outside the NBA beats that team in say a 7 game series? Their youth is a problem but that team definitely has more talent.

The Ignite thing started as hyperbolic but I think it’s a better point than the alternative, that any team outside the NBA could hang with an NBA team.

Mojave couldn’t even get on the court in the NBL which is why he went to G-League ignite.

And he was baaaaaad in the G-League Ignite. Like, legitimately bad. His numbers were horrible. They made me very nervous when we drafted him. He does look better on the court than his numbers suggest, though. Maybe there's hope.

[Nuntius]

Pop agrees

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Yup. Just like I've been saying throughout this thread, the term "World Champions" has a specific meaning. Pop is 100% correct (which is not a surprise).

[Nuntius]

The point I think folks are trying to get across is that this isn’t about the US, it’s the fact that the NBA has the best teams there are no teams competitive with NBA teams that are outside of the NBA. The best Euro league team starts guys who flunked out of the NBA.

The NBA definitely has the best teams. No one's disputing that. I do think that some of the very best EuroLeague teams (like Real and Barcelona) would be able to compete at an NBA level and finish anywhere from 6th to 10th in their conference (in other words, they could be right in that bubble between a low-seed in the playoffs and a play-in team) but that simply proves how much better the NBA is. When a continent's very best can only be middling in your league then, yeah, there's no argument that your league is superior. For the umpteenth time, no one is disputing that.

But when you say that a bad G-League team like the G-League Ignite can beat every team outside the NBA then, well, that is ridiculous. And since you're involving a G-League team here and not an NBA team, it's not even about the NBA anymore. It is clearly about the US. And the only reason to make that assumption is jingoism. You're essentially immediately assuming that anything outside of the US sucks when compared to anything from the US. And that is an absolutely warped point of view.

Basketball is a sport with a global reach (not as global as association football but pretty global overall). There are a lot of good basketball teams outside the US. Only a couple of them can compete with the NBA since the NBA is the best basketball league by a very, very significant margin but when it comes to other levels of basketball in the US like the G-League and the NCAA then, yeah, it's not that special. Lots of teams outside the US are better than that. Significantly so.

This isn’t the case for other sports leagues other places who don’t have all of the best teams in the world in one league. I don’t know much about the AFL but I don’t think you can say it has all the best football teams in the world.

The whole “world champs” thing is marketing language for the NBA but it’s the worst possible sport/league to choose to try to make the point about not being able to say that.

The NBA is far from the worst possible sport/league to choose from here. The worst sport/league to choose among the major US sports would be the NFL. The NFL is the least global of your major sports and it's a sport that most people outside the US do not really know or care about. That makes it a much, much worse sport to choose from when compared to the NBA. The MBL is a worst choice as well since Baseball is less global than Basketball (only 18 nations have participated in Baseball at the Olympics and only 23 have participated in the World Baseball Classic).

But the example that AussieCeltic brought up here is perfect as well. You see, the AFL, the Australian Football League, is NOT a league that plays association or gridiron football. It's a league that plays Australian Rules Football, a sport invented in Australia (and obviously based in older football codes). It is the ONLY professional league that plays this sport in the world. Literally no one else plays it at a professional level.

AussieCeltic's point is that even in that case when literally no one else in the world plays the sport and no one has even the slightest hope of beating you, it still doesn't make sense to call yourself a "World Champion" without actually participating in an actual world championship first and winning it. National leagues are NOT world championships. The world is much bigger than any single nation.

[SkyhookinUrMom]

US is also strongest country in the world, president should be called world president