Gold Medalist Questions the NBA Champs Being Deemed "World" Champs

Mirotic12 · Post #501 » by **Mirotic12** » Sun Sep 3, 2023 4:01 pm

Lithuania 110 - "The Unbeatable 12 NBA Players" 104

Box Score:

https://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2023/game/0309/USA-Lithuania#tab=boxscore

Bobbymcgee · Post #502 » by **Bobbymcgee** » Sun Sep 3, 2023 4:17 pm

I thought it was world champ because the NBA welcomes players from all over the world to play in their league.

leolozon · Post #503 » by **leolozon** » Sun Sep 3, 2023 4:29 pm

They aren’t technically the world champ. I’m not sure why this is even a debate. To be a world champ, you have to win a world championship. Best team in the best league in the world isn’t the same as world champ

26 pages?

The Box Office · Post #504 » by **The Box Office** » Sun Sep 3, 2023 4:30 pm

I thought it was "NBA World Champions."

Mirotic12 · Post #505 » by **Mirotic12** » Sun Sep 3, 2023 6:19 pm

The Box Office wrote:I thought it was "NBA World Champions."

As has already been posted in this thread, many NBA teams refer to themselves as "world champions" on their championship banners and rings.

Post #506 » by **PaulieWal** » Sun Sep 3, 2023 6:59 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
The Box Office wrote:I thought it was "NBA World Champions."

As has already been posted in this thread, many NBA teams refer to themselves as "world champions" on their championship banners and rings.

As they should since the NBA is the best league in the world and the NBA champ would beat any of their counterparts from any other league quite easily.

Post #507 » by **DuckIII** » Sun Sep 3, 2023 8:00 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Quattro wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:Calling the NBA champions the world champions is obviously completely absurd and totally ridiculous. like 99% of people outside of the USA think that's a ludicrous claim and just completely laugh at it, or even find it actually insulting and to be in very bad taste.

Regardless of what people in the US might think, it's considered an absolute joke by the vast majority of people elsewhere.

Lol. Why? Do you really think some Euro league team comprised of guys not good enough to play in the NBA stands a chance against a team like the Nuggets becuase news flash for you… they dont.

EuroLeague teams have beaten the defending NBA champion teams on more than one occasion already.

I agree with your take that the US is the best in the world. Except today.

srhcan · Post #508 » by **srhcan** » Sun Sep 3, 2023 10:23 pm

PaulieWal wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
The Box Office wrote:I thought it was "NBA World Champions."

As has already been posted in this thread, many NBA teams refer to themselves as "world champions" on their championship banners and rings.

As they should since the NBA is the best league in the world and the NBA champ would beat any of their counterparts from any other league quite easily.

Need a down vote option for exactly these types of brainless posts :crazy:

Warned, please do not resort to personal attack.

Post #509 » by **og15** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 1:04 am

PaulieWal wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
The Box Office wrote:I thought it was "NBA World Champions."

As has already been posted in this thread, many NBA teams refer to themselves as "world champions" on their championship banners and rings.

As they should since the NBA is the best league in the world and the NBA champ would beat any of their counterparts from any other league quite easily.

Sure, they could beat them in one game, teams like the Blazers and Jazz beat the Nuggets during the regular season. Minnesota got a game from them during their playoff series. Of course it would be a disingenuous argument for us to say if they could beat them in one game, that means something in terms of who is the better team. Basketball isn't really a sport that is best represented by a one game battle.

If we're actually having a real discussion about a 7 game series though, no, there isn't a team that would beat them from outside the NBA.

Still, world champs is an interesting way to refer to them, but it's not something worth 20+ pages of discussion to hash out why that has been used.

Post #510 » by **PaulieWal** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 1:27 am

og15 wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
As has already been posted in this thread, many NBA teams refer to themselves as "world champions" on their championship banners and rings.

As they should since the NBA is the best league in the world and the NBA champ would beat any of their counterparts from any other league quite easily.

Sure, they could beat them in one game, teams like the Blazers and Jazz beat the Nuggets during the regular season. Minnesota got a game from them during their playoff series. Of course it would be a disingenuous argument for us to say if they could beat them in one game, that means something in terms of who is the better team. Basketball isn't really a sport that is best represented by a one game battle.

If we're actually having a real discussion about a 7 game series though, no, there isn't a team that would beat them from outside the NBA.

Still, world champs is an interesting way to refer to them, but it's not something worth 20+ pages of discussion to hash out why that has been used.

So you agree with me? That's exactly what I was getting at, you just added a bit more context.

And I sorta agree with you, this whole world champs debate is the most '1st world problem' I have ever seen :lol:

Bottom line, no team from any other league is beating the NBA champ in a 7 game series.

Post #511 » by **ken6199** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 6:13 am

So this is like if someone call Lewis Hamilton "the fastest driver in the world" (a few years ago) and you go like, no he is not, he is in the fastest Formula One car, try put him in a Hass...

Well, we all know "the fastest driver in the world" is a term that can never be fully proven, as you can't put every driver in the same car and have them do 100 laps and take their average lap time. Even if you do that the wind would be different from time to time, track temperature, etc. You can always argue ABCDE factors are not equal to all the drivers.

But hey, he is a proven really good driver, with multiple championships, good enough for one of the best Formula One team to trust him with a seat for this many years. I think it's okay to call him "the fastest driver in the world" at that time.

Pachinko_ · Post #512 » by **Pachinko_** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 9:48 am

Basic rules of sportsmanship say you have to give them a chance to play before claiming you're better.

Denver Nuggets - Real Madrid. If it's NBA rules 7 game series there's no hope for Real. However, single game under FIBA rules? I'd watch that.

moderndarwin · Post #513 » by **moderndarwin** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 2:51 pm

I’m confused isn’t the best team in the premier league generally considered the best team in the world?

And same with the NBA? That the best team in the NBA is considered the best team in the world?

If we’re talking country stuff the only one that matters is the Olympics

Sgt Major · Post #514 » by **Sgt Major** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 2:53 pm

og15 wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
As has already been posted in this thread, many NBA teams refer to themselves as "world champions" on their championship banners and rings.

As they should since the NBA is the best league in the world and the NBA champ would beat any of their counterparts from any other league quite easily.

Sure, they could beat them in one game, teams like the Blazers and Jazz beat the Nuggets during the regular season. Minnesota got a game from them during their playoff series. Of course it would be a disingenuous argument for us to say if they could beat them in one game, that means something in terms of who is the better team. Basketball isn't really a sport that is best represented by a one game battle.

If we're actually having a real discussion about a 7 game series though, no, there isn't a team that would beat them from outside the NBA.

Still, world champs is an interesting way to refer to them, but it's not something worth 20+ pages of discussion to hash out why that has been used.

Who said we're talking about a 7 game series? World Cup finals and even the Olympics finals are just one game.

Black star · Post #515 » by **Black star** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 2:57 pm

ken6199 wrote:So this is like if someone call Lewis Hamilton "the fastest driver in the world" (a few years ago) and you go like, no he is not, he is in the fastest Formula One car, try put him in a Hass...

Well, we all know "the fastest driver in the world" is a term that can never be fully proven, as you can't put every driver in the same car and have them do 100 laps and take their average lap time. Even if you do that the wind would be different from time to time, track temperature, etc. You can always argue ABCDE factors are not equal to all the drivers.

But hey, he is a proven really good driver, with multiple championships, good enough for one of the best Formula One team to trust him with a seat for this many years. I think it's okay to call him "the fastest driver in the world" at that time.

Jokic is unquestionably the best player in the NBA right now. Does that mean he can call himself the MVP of the league? Well no, because the MVP isn't an arbitrary concept of goodness its a specific award given out every year. Embiid is the MVP despite most people agreeing Jokic is better than him.

Similarly, you can be the best team in the world but it doesn't mean you are a world champion. Because that's a specific title reserved for individuals who win world tournaments. Whoever wins this FIBA World Cup will be the world champs factually and whether the Nuggets would beat them is irrelevant to that fact.

Post #516 » by **og15** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 3:21 pm

Sgt Major wrote:
og15 wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:
As they should since the NBA is the best league in the world and the NBA champ would beat any of their counterparts from any other league quite easily.

Sure, they could beat them in one game, teams like the Blazers and Jazz beat the Nuggets during the regular season. Minnesota got a game from them during their playoff series. Of course it would be a disingenuous argument for us to say if they could beat them in one game, that means something in terms of who is the better team. Basketball isn't really a sport that is best represented by a one game battle.

If we're actually having a real discussion about a 7 game series though, no, there isn't a team that would beat them from outside the NBA.

Still, world champs is an interesting way to refer to them, but it's not something worth 20+ pages of discussion to hash out why that has been used.
Who said we're talking about a 7 game series? World Cup finals and even the Olympics finals are just one game.

I don't know who "we" is as there are many posters with different opinions here. The poster I quoted was talking about that concept, a series between club teams.

The NBA champion is based on a 7 game series, that's where this claim of "world champions" comes from.

The NBA champs aren't a team of one country, they are an international team almost every year, consisting of players from all around the world.

The question was about whether a club team from somewhere else in the world could beat the NBA champs. If the question is simply, "could a top Euroleague club beat the NBA champs in one game", that's a pointless question. What does that tell us except that they could win one game.

The NBA champs don't go undefeated in the playoffs, and they will even lose to a team that sucks during the regular season with their full squad, even without a scheduling reason.

Of course there's a superiority ingrained into the claim, it's a claim based on a conclusion that their league is the undisputed top league in the world with the vast majority of the world's best players and therefore the winner in their league is the best club team in the world, not national team. They could say world club champions, but it doesn't change the implication or the fact that it's an interesting way to refer to themselves, even if it takes away the pointless argument about national teams.

dhsilv2 · Post #517 » by **dhsilv2** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 3:24 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:Basic rules of sportsmanship say you have to give them a chance to play before claiming you're better.

Denver Nuggets - Real Madrid. If it's NBA rules 7 game series there's no hope for Real. However, single game under FIBA rules? I'd watch that.

All those players have a chance to play in the NBA. If they aren't in the NBA, they don't matter.

BodieB · Post #518 » by **BodieB** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 3:45 pm

og15 wrote:
Sgt Major wrote:
og15 wrote:Sure, they could beat them in one game, teams like the Blazers and Jazz beat the Nuggets during the regular season. Minnesota got a game from them during their playoff series. Of course it would be a disingenuous argument for us to say if they could beat them in one game, that means something in terms of who is the better team. Basketball isn't really a sport that is best represented by a one game battle.

If we're actually having a real discussion about a 7 game series though, no, there isn't a team that would beat them from outside the NBA.

Still, world champs is an interesting way to refer to them, but it's not something worth 20+ pages of discussion to hash out why that has been used.
Who said we're talking about a 7 game series? World Cup finals and even the Olympics finals are just one game.
I don't know who "we" is as there are many posters with different opinions here. The poster I quoted was talking about that concept, a series between club teams.

The NBA champion is based on a 7 game series, that's where this claim of "world champions" comes from.

The NBA champs aren't a team of one country, they are an international team almost every year, consisting of players from all around the world.

The question was about whether a club team from somewhere else in the world could beat the NBA champs. If the question is simply, "could a top Euroleague club beat the NBA champs in one game", that's a pointless question. What does that tell us except that they could win one game.

The NBA champs don't go undefeated in the playoffs, and they will even lose to a team that sucks during the regular season with their full squad, even without a scheduling reason.

Of course there's a superiority ingrained into the claim, it's a claim based on a conclusion that their league is the undisputed top league in the world with the vast majority of the world's best players and therefore the winner in their league is the best club team in the world, not national team. They could say world club champions, but it doesn't change the implication or the fact that it's an interesting way to refer to themselves, even if it takes away the pointless argument about national teams.

Right, this is what gets me. The posters that are anti NBA World champs are of the belief that the NBA playoffs is not the most grueling, yet balanced way of determining the best team in the league that year. Having a one and done tournament with FIBA rules, which handicaps the game of NBA players and benefits the less athletic overseas ones, undermines the achievement.

HEKTOR · Post #519 » by **HEKTOR** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 4:08 pm

It's simple - if an NBA champion team wants to be considered the "World Champs" then they should only say so once they beat the best of the rest. Like in soccer - you have the Champions League (CL) for European clubs and then they have the World Cup when the best teams from the other competitions all compete in a tournament.
They could look to do the same in basketball. Have the NBA champs play in a tournament with the Euroleague champs, Asian champs, perhaps African, and South American. My guess is the NBA champs would win - but before they actually do so, they shouldn't be claiming to be the World Champs.

Post #520 » by **og15** » Mon Sep 4, 2023 4:53 pm

HEKTOR wrote:It's simple - if an NBA champion team wants to be considered the "World Champs" then they should only say so once they beat the best of the rest. Like in soccer - you have the Champions League (CL) for European clubs and then they have the World Cup when the best teams from the other competitions all compete in a tournament.
They could look to do the same in basketball. Have the NBA champs play in a tournament with the Euroleague champs, Asian champs, perhaps African, and South American. My guess is the NBA champs would win - but before they actually do so, they shouldn't be claiming to be the World Champs.

This is a fun idea in theory, in practice really only the Euroleague team is worth playing as many of those other continents don't have strong leagues to compete. In addition, both the Euroleague and other continents, the vast majority of their best players are in the NBA anyways, so it's not representative. The NBA is played in North America, but it isn't a North America league, it really is a world league, let's be real here.