FIBA World Cup 2023 : GERMANY are the new World Champions! (takes on the world and beats it for once...)

[Dacost]

So many players out of position even Jaren is a PF and not C.

It frustrating think to see.

Jaren playing heavy center minutes

Banchero playing heavy center minutes

Ingram at the 4.

[Mirotic12]

Man, I'm not gonna start that discussion again, the play the kind of defence that is allowed in the NBA with NBA rules and refs. And also they don't box out because nobody hunts offensive rebounds in the NBA. None of that works in fiba, ok, but you would expect a coaching duo like Spo and Kerr to come up with something to at least make their athleticism work for them, as it has in past. A zone, traps, full court press, something. They did **** all

Even under Coach K, the pressing and trapping never really worked against teams with good guards like Spain and Greece. It was something for the teams that lacked good guards. But now, even teams with guards like Lithuania, won't just totally fold under the pressure. And Lithuania's guards are far, far, far from the level of the guards on those old Spain and Greece teams.

And now with how all these teams are naturalizing point guards.......some of the weaker teams that didn't have guards that can handle pressure do now. They couldn't even press Kendrick Perry, who's pretty much a below average EuroLeague player. It's just different now. Other decent teams are not going to fold under ball pressure. And USA sure the hell doesn't have LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Paul, etc. all those guys like they did before to pressure, which again, even back then it didn't really work against the teams with the best guard play. And also, you don't want to entice the opponent to press you as well. Because USA's guards, at least on this team, are not that great of ball handlers, and they could definitely also be pressed, especially when playing some of the European teams that have bigger guards.

Look at the USA against Italy game. USA blew Italy out because Italy reverted back to their extremely stupid jack and chuck endless stupid shots the whole game. Just when it looked like they finally got over that, at the most important game, they reverted back to the Bargnani/Gallinari/Belinelli era of play.

That's why USA blew them out, because they played against a team making idiotic decisions from all of the ball handlers. That's just not normal for European teams. So that's where USA is at now. They are going to have to win in half court against some of these European teams.

[UcanUwill]

So many players out of position even Jaren is a PF and not C.

It frustrating think to see.

Jaren playing heavy center minutes

Banchero playing heavy center minutes

Ingram at the 4.

I think Banchero as small ball C was actually interseting and can work in the NBA, man is big. But JJJ was just totally exposed and we now all know why coaches pair him with traditional centers. Guy is huge and jacked and athletic, but he simply cant rebound the ball.

That said, looking at stats, they were both pathetic at the boards. It is really insane Kessler was wasted, I know Kessler is rookie, but he was good NBA player in year one, you are telling me he cant hold his own against guys like Milutinov, Papagiannis, Vucevic, Jonas, at least to a point. Kerr lost more by going small than what he gained, just brutally killed on the glass in multiple games, no lessons learned after Lithuania loss.

[Pachinko_]

Man, I'm not gonna start that discussion again, the play the kind of defence that is allowed in the NBA with NBA rules and refs. And also they don't box out because nobody hunts offensive rebounds in the NBA. None of that works in fiba, ok, but you would expect a coaching duo like Spo and Kerr to come up with something to at least make their athleticism work for them, as it has in past. A zone, traps, full court press, something. They did **** all

Even under Coach K, the pressing and trapping never worked against teams with good guards like Spain and Greece. It was something for the teams that lacked good guards. But now, even teams with guards like Lithuania, can't just fold under the pressure. And Lithuania's guards are far, far, far from the level of the guards on those old Spain and Greece teams.

And now with how all these teams are naturalizing point guards.......some of the weaker teams that didn't have guards that can handle pressure do now. They couldn't even press Kendrick Perry, who's pretty much a below average EuroLeague player. It's just different now. Other decent teams are not going to fold under ball pressure. And USA sure the hell doesn't have LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Paul, etc. all those guys like they did before to pressure, which again, even back then it didn't really work against the teams with the best guard play.

Yeah I agree it's getting harder. I think Americans are kinda fcked to be honest, if they couldn't win this one it's not gonna get any easier in the future. Those Serbian and Lithuanian guards were impressive all the way to the end of the bench. And NBA keeps refusing to hire international coaches because OMG WHO IS GONNA MANAGE THE PERSONALITIES, so they're stuck playing the same stagnant offense and weak defense.

[UcanUwill]

Man, I'm not gonna start that discussion again, the play the kind of defence that is allowed in the NBA with NBA rules and refs. And also they don't box out because nobody hunts offensive rebounds in the NBA. None of that works in fiba, ok, but you would expect a coaching duo like Spo and Kerr to come up with something to at least make their athleticism work for them, as it has in past. A zone, traps, full court press, something. They did **** all

Mikal never figured out what he could be able to do on defense, guy was guarding damn Kariniauskas and did nothing to him... Lithuanian guards cant dribble, thats why we lost to Serbia, they caused like 15 turnovers in the middle of the court by pressing. ANd team USA didnt do that, you are telling me Serbia has better defenders now?

USA was never coached very well, but their players knew they can press, steal the ball and run in transition, thats what won them games in the past. This team was too passive, way too passive.

Yes, I agree that against Lull, Claderon, Rubio, that wouldnt work, these guys were excellent ball handlers, but against some other teams, that free possessions right there, jsut press these guys.

[Memories]

Kerr is a fraud of a coach after all.

Dude might have worse starting lineups than Darvin Ham. At least Ham adjusts slowly. Kerr just kept the same bs that wasn't working. Reaves not starting when he has been clearly the best player on the team (and Hailburton) is mind boggling.

Anthony Edwards scores a lot, but the dude is a tremendous ball hog. You can tell on the eye test that he doesn't really contribute to winning basketball despite the nice points numbers he puts up. But I don't blame all on him or even most players in general.

It's coaching that failed USA here. And Kerr is a terrible USA coach at that.

[Pachinko_]

Man, I'm not gonna start that discussion again, the play the kind of defence that is allowed in the NBA with NBA rules and refs. And also they don't box out because nobody hunts offensive rebounds in the NBA. None of that works in fiba, ok, but you would expect a coaching duo like Spo and Kerr to come up with something to at least make their athleticism work for them, as it has in past. A zone, traps, full court press, something. They did **** all

Mikal never figured out what he could be able to do on defense, guy was guarding damn Kariniauskas and did nothing to him... Lithuanian guards cant dribble, thats why we lost to Serbia, they caused like 15 turnovers in the middle of the court by pressing. ANd team USA didnt do that, you are telling me Serbia has better defenders now?

USA was never coached very well, but their players knew they can press, steal the ball and run in transition, thats what won them games in the past. This team was too passive, way too passive.

Yes, I agree that against Lull, Claderon, Rubio, that wouldnt work, these guys were excellent ball handlers, but against some other teams, that free possessions right there, jsut press these guys.

Latvian, Lithuanian and Serbian guards were moving ball and bodies in a way that Team USA couldn't even dream of. The were really good at doing that, that's what I mean, not that they are better in the sense they should all go to the NBA and be stars.

[Mirotic12]

Mikal never figured out what he could be able to do on defense, guy was guarding damn Kariniauskas and did nothing to him... Lithuanian guards cant dribble, thats why we lost to Serbia, they caused like 15 turnovers in the middle of the court by pressing. ANd team USA didnt do that, you are telling me Serbia has better defenders now?

USA was never coached very well, but their players knew they can press, steal the ball and run in transition, thats what won them games in the past. This team was too passive, way too passive.

I think part of the reason, is because this USA team doesn't have very good ball handlers. They could be trapped and pressed and it could be a big problem for them. But the other coaches, either don't know that, or were not smart enough to try it. They probably have this idea in their heads that USA's guards are all great ball handlers.

But let's be real here, with the FIBA dribble rules, no, these guys are not that good at ball handling. Edwards for example is really talented, but he's a travel waiting to happen under FIBA rules, the same with Reaves, and so on. I might be giving too much credit to USA's coaches, but to me, if you don't have the best ball handlers on your own team, it's a risk to press the other team, because sometimes when you do that, the game sort of breaks down into two teams pressing each other. And with the FIBA dribble rules, Team USA, at least this Team USA, is not a good ball handling team.

But I might be giving way too much credit to USA's coaches, and they may very well have just been asleep.

[UcanUwill]

Mikal never figured out what he could be able to do on defense, guy was guarding damn Kariniauskas and did nothing to him... Lithuanian guards cant dribble, thats why we lost to Serbia, they caused like 15 turnovers in the middle of the court by pressing. ANd team USA didnt do that, you are telling me Serbia has better defenders now?

USA was never coached very well, but their players knew they can press, steal the ball and run in transition, thats what won them games in the past. This team was too passive, way too passive.

I think part of the reason, is because this USA team doesn't have very good ball handlers. They could be trapped and pressed and it could be a big problem for them. But the other coaches, either don't know that, or were not smart enough to try it. They probably have this idea in their heads that USA's guards are all great ball handlers.

But let's be real here, with the FIBA dribble rules, no, these guys are not that good at ball handling. Edwards for example is really talented, but he's a travel waiting to happen under FIBA rules, the same with Reaves, and so on. I might be giving too much credit to USA's coaches, but to me, if you don't have the best ball handlers on your own team, it's a risk to press the other team, because sometimes when you do that, the game sort of breaks down into two teams pressing each other. And with the FIBA dribble rules, Team USA, at least this Team USA is not a good ball handling team.

But I might be giving way too much credit to USA's coaches, and they may very well have just been asleep.

We talked about this before, you cant be star NBA guard without elite dribble. All of their handles are elite, but travelling rules is a bit different discussion entirely, they just do not call it in the states, so they used to it, and in FIBA, they need to retrain their brain when to pivot, but you are telling me Reaves, ANT and HAliburton does not have good handle, chill...

[DoctorX]

EVERY tournament it's the same thing here.......

USA wins and it's "we are the best ever, look at how we completely dominated and totally destroyed all those slow, stiff, minor league jokes"......

USA loses and it's "no one cares about this tournament, no one even knows this tournament exists, and the USA is not even attempting to win these tournaments".....

You guys really need to come up with some new material.

I definitely think it's a big deal the USA is losing in this tournament. It illustrates to me how the US doesn't really have any good young prospects going forward. Guys like KD, Curry is the best American Players, but they are very old in the tooth. Even with those guys going forward next year in '24 I think it will be hard for the US winning gold. The tournament also showed the US is grossly undersized. There is not really any good US bigs outside of AD, KAT, etc.

[Mirotic12]

Latvian, Lithuanian and Serbian guards were moving ball and bodies in a way that Team USA couldn't even dream of. The were really good at doing that, that's what I mean, not that they are better in the sense they should all go to the NBA and be stars.

All the time, it is claimed that the NBA is "faster" than let's say high level European basketball, like the EuroLeague, or a really good European national team. That is a claim almost made universally, how the NBA is so much "faster".

But it's completely untrue and it's actually the opposite. People are always saying how a EuroLeague game looks so slow compared to an NBA game. But the thing that so many people can't seem to grasp is, that pace is just pace. It's not actually how "fast" the game is. It's just the pace of the offense. Not the same thing actually.

In EuroLeague, the ball moves much, much, much faster than it does in the NBA. Like way, way faster. The pace is obviously slower, and it's definitely a lot more half court oriented. But the speed of the ball movement is so, so much faster than it is in the NBA.

And this is just something that NBA only fans refuse to understand, and it seems like even these NBA coaches refuse to understand. Most NBA players look completely lost on defense, when they are playing against these high level European team offenses, because the NBA players never see an offense where the ball moves so fast in the NBA.

[Maf]

Well last WC USA were 7th, now 4th at worst, so.. succes? You have hard time to find American player to select to All-NBA, get used to it.

[Mirotic12]

We talked about this before, you cant be star NBA guard without elite dribble. All of their handles are elite, but travelling rules is a bit different discussion entirely, they just do not call it in the states, so they used to it, and in FIBA, they need to retrain their brain when to pivot, but you are telling me Reaves, ANT and HAliburton does not have good handle, chill...

I don't think they have very good handles. I have zero doubt at all this USA team could have been effectively pressed. No one really put the press on Lithuania or USA, and they should have tried it.

[Maf]

EVERY tournament it's the same thing here.......

USA wins and it's "we are the best ever, look at how we completely dominated and totally destroyed all those slow, stiff, minor league jokes"......

USA loses and it's "no one cares about this tournament, no one even knows this tournament exists, and the USA is not even attempting to win these tournaments".....

You guys really need to come up with some new material.

I definitely think it's a big deal the USA is losing in this tournament. It illustrates to me how the US doesn't really have any good young prospects going forward. Guys like KD, Curry is the best American Players, but they are very old in the tooth. Even with those guys going forward next year in '24 I think it will be hard for the US winning gold. The tournament also showed the US is grossly undersized. There is not really any good US bigs outside of AD, KAT, etc.

And KAT plays for another country, too. Just to mention.

[UcanUwill]

We talked about this before, you cant be star NBA guard without elite dribble. All of their handles are elite, but travelling rules is a bit different discussion entirely, they just do not call it in the states, so they used to it, and in FIBA, they need to retrain their brain when to pivot, but you are telling me Reaves, ANT and HAliburton does not have good handle, chill...

I don't think they have very good handles. I have zero doubt at all this USA team could have been effectively pressed. No one really put the press on Lithuania or USA, and they should have tried it.

Rick Pitino is regarded as one of the dumbest NBA coaches, because he came from college and tried full court press in the NBA< which never worked, you can't successfully press that level of players. Vasquez and Jasikevicius couldnt stick in the NBA, because those are the guys who cant dribble, NBA star guards can dribble, trust me, their entire school is built on one on one andball handling drills, thats why there are so many dominant american guards overseas and most National teams have naturalized black guy PG from states nowadays.

[art_tatum]

How overrated is Steve Kerr.
Worst team in the nba when curry didn't play a season. They only tanked when they realized they couldn't compete with draymond motion offensing to avg players.

[Mirotic12]

Rick Pitino is regarded as one of the dumbest NBA coaches, because he came from college and tried full court press in the NBA< which never worked, you can't successfully press that level of players. Vasquez and Jasikevicius couldnt stick in the NBA, because those are the guys who cant dribble, NBA star guards can dribble, trust me, their entire school is built on one on one andball handling drills, thats why there are so many dominant american guards overseas and most National teams have naturalized black guy PG from states nowadays.

I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying THIS particular USA team didn't have the best ball handling. In EuroLeague, Pitino did press, but he mixed up when he would try it. And honestly, I don't recall it ever being successful. So I'm not saying it would definitely work, but this US team and also this Lithuania team, were two of the best teams in the tournament, and yet they had some susceptibility to the press I think. It's just that no one really tried them on it.

[baldur]

Noah lyles was right after all. How possibly could you concede 120 points in 40 minutes? When you wait your opponent to shoot so you can get the ball for offence is the only thing in the defensive end, this is the result.

[RookieStar]

We didn’t lose because of our offense, iso based or not. We lost because of defense and rebounding. How this team doesn’t have a 6’10”ish wing that can play defense and rebound to play PF if we want to play small is insane. Even someone like Jaden McDaniels would have helped. You can’t go solely with one real big, especially when that big is not a good rebounder.

We gave up 113 points in a 40 minute game. That’s lack of rebounding, lack of defensive size, and a defensive scheme that allowed Reaves and Brunson to get hunted over-and-over again.

Team USA does have a 6'10ish big wing.. Kerr made him into a backup C.

[Nuntius]

Nuggets won the ring with Jokic leading them and now WC will also be won by EU country. Successful year for EU fans.

Nope, Serbia is not in the EU.

Lmao go back to school. Serbia is European. That "EU"-meaning political not geographical.

I don't think that you understand Sgt Major's point. His point wasn't that Serbia isn't European, his point was that Serbia is not in the EU (European Union). And he's right. The Serbia isn't in the EU. He should know, he IS Serbian.