FIBA World Cup 2023 : GERMANY are the new World Champions! (takes on the world and beats it for once...)

[Pachinko_]

I suspect during this upcoming NBA season, as Kessler has some success at center, the question will come up more than once how it came to be that Kessler was deemed not good enough to get off the bench in World Cup Play from day one, while the center combination of JJJ and Banchero managed to pull down a pathetic, combined 6.3 rebs/game, 1.9 orebs/game, and give up easy points at the rim and second chance points.

Because he is not good enough. Americans have collectively decided that boxing out is unnecessary, and without boxing out you have to be some combination of Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Dennis Rodman to grab enough boards, which Kessler is clearly not.

Adding more talent is not gonna solve the lack of fundamentals. These guys are used to NBA teams never going for offensive rebounds, well guess what, European teams actually go for offensive rebounds. Surprise!

[Buckets22]

Wow, Latvia is on a mission.

[-Luke-]

25-4 in this quarter so far.

Edit:
Sirvydis with a three while I wrote this.

[CerambyX]

Latvia completely dicking Lithuania, +30 before 4th quarter. Obviously 5th place means more to Latvia, so they are more motivated but still - unexpected!

[Dino-Might]

The fact is, when the US does not send its absolute best players, the talent gap does not overcome superior chemistry and team play under FIBA rules.

The US has simply not been a dominant team at the World Cup. They are the favorites every year but I wouldn’t take them against the field.

This year, they had a cupcake schedule racking up blowout wins but lost against the two good teams they faced. That does not strike me as the clear best team in the tournament.

[stoo]

let's not forget that team USA is not the best team in the world in basketball since 2019 until at least 2027.

Argument that this was not the best USA team is invalid, because if a player doesn't want to play for you, he is in no way part of your team

cheers

[UcanUwill]

wow, this is pathetic. Latvia beating Lithuania at basketball, to Lithuanian, is the same kind of pain like USA beating England at Soccer, to English fan. THis is just not how it suppose to be champ, I dont like this haha.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

wow, this is pathetic. Latvia beating Lithuania at basketball, to Lithuanian, is the same kind of pain like USA beating England at Soccer, to English fan. THis is just not how it suppose to be champ, I dont like this haha.

Wow, that’s a hell of a beatdown too.

No Porzingis and still the breakthrough team of the tournament

[UcanUwill]

It is interesting that some of the players who skip FIBA, usually make excuse that they didnt sign contract yet. Now look at free agent Zagars, how much upcoming money he made in this past 2 weeks?

[the_other_guy]

It is interesting that some of the players who skip FIBA, usually make excuse that they didnt sign contract yet. Now look at free agent Zagars, how much upcoming money he made in this past 2 weeks?

Zagars value probably went 5 times at least
I dont know his salary last year, but I dont think it was more than 50k. I mean Nevežis does not have the budget to pay more lol.
I guess right now he can easily get 250+

[LuDux1]

Kariniauskas - Lithuanian MVP

[UcanUwill]

Hopefully, they dont rub this one in our face for the next four years

[RomaBuck]

I suspect during this upcoming NBA season, as Kessler has some success at center, the question will come up more than once how it came to be that Kessler was deemed not good enough to get off the bench in World Cup Play from day one, while the center combination of JJJ and Banchero managed to pull down a pathetic, combined 6.3 rebs/game, 1.9 orebs/game, and give up easy points at the rim and second chance points.

Because he is not good enough. Americans have collectively decided that boxing out is unnecessary, and without boxing out you have to be some combination of Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Dennis Rodman to grab enough boards, which Kessler is clearly not.

Adding more talent is not gonna solve the lack of fundamentals. These guys are used to NBA teams never going for offensive rebounds, well guess what, European teams actually go for offensive rebounds. Surprise!

Well, this is spot on. Few things to add.
Nba players have stopped going hard after offensive rebounds, because their team would be susceptible to fast break opportunities the other way and give up easy 2s. Most of the top rebounders in the Nba grab defensive rebounds unchallenged, no need to box out much.The fast break say 4 on 5, is where most of these players excel at and score at will, so they try to not let that happen much.
Moses Malone and Dennis Rodman are not coming through the door these days.
Kessler would have provided little help and would have exposed other weaknesses. Think that Papagiannis had a good game against the U.S. offensively! That says it all.

[Crunch 99]

I suspect during this upcoming NBA season, as Kessler has some success at center, the question will come up more than once how it came to be that Kessler was deemed not good enough to get off the bench in World Cup Play from day one, while the center combination of JJJ and Banchero managed to pull down a pathetic, combined 6.3 rebs/game, 1.9 orebs/game, and give up easy points at the rim and second chance points.

Because he is not good enough. Americans have collectively decided that boxing out is unnecessary, and without boxing out you have to be some combination of Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Dennis Rodman to grab enough boards, which Kessler is clearly not.

Adding more talent is not gonna solve the lack of fundamentals. These guys are used to NBA teams never going for offensive rebounds, well guess what, European teams actually go for offensive rebounds. Surprise!

JJJ is used to working in tandem with another big man to effectively rebound. JJJ knows how to box out. Teammate Adams led the NBA for offensive rebounds last season and the season before. When Adams played 76 games and JJJ played 78 games the 21-22 season, Adams led the NBA in orebs while the Grizz led the NBA in both total and offensive rebounds. Young Kessler isn't as good as Steven Adams yet, but I think there was potential for Kessler and JJJ to learn to play together to marshal a lot better rebounding and rim protection results than what we got.

[Mirotic12]

I think you still have to consider context and individual cases. Steph has never participated in the Olympics and that's probably his last shot at doing it while still having a good role on the team. In addition, he has the skillset to where he is plug and play on every team in the entire world. Also, Steph has actually bulked up and added more mass over the last years, as opposed to traditional shooters, like Kerr or Navarro who were super skinny and essentially useless on D past a certain age cause they were only relying on genetics/ God given muscle mass.

As for LeBron, you really think he couldn't play 15 mpg at PF 11 months from now? Mainly as a point forward while getting a dunk and chase down block here and there.

Imo it's simply a case by case thing and LBJ and Steph are two guys who spend the summers working out a ton anyway. The reason they're not always available is mainly cause it requires them to be away from home and less due to the wear and tear. Now if we take Kawhi or AD, that's a different story. Those guys need rest and time to recover.

To me the main issue with a roster of Lillard, Butler, Draymond, AD, LBJ, Steph in 2024 is that it limits the high ball pressure D you can play. Have to fill out those remaining spots with athletic defenders that can shoot consistently well even in pressure situations and those are hard to find.

You know, Steph was never all that great in FIBA.

2010 FIBA World Cup

4.6 points per game
1.4 rebounds per game
2.1 assists per game

and tripped to the floor from a Spanoulis ankle breaker

2014 FIBA World Cup

10.7 points per game
2.8 rebounds per game
2.9 assists per game

This is before his peak, but it's not exactly like he lit it up or anything. And he would be 36 at the Olympics, and he is definitely starting to show his age a little bit. He's one of my favorite players ever, but he's not some savior messiah for Team USA.

[Mirotic12]

Its just different, you put ''real'' coach, you lose even more guys who wants to play for this. Guy like Durant, Curry, LeBron, Giannis, all these best players will just have more impact, on court, financially, than any coach there. SO that is why it is what is. NBA coaches job is not just coach, but rather keep your biggest talent happy and around.

Best players in Europe are like who, Tavares, Mirotic, Nedovic, James... Guys like that, if you alienate them, just get rid of them and find other borderline NBA guy who will be good for you. You can afford alienating Mike James, but you cant afford alienating Luka or Jokic or Giannis or CUrry, thats just how it is.

NBA and EUro coaching are focused and hard in different areas. WIth that said, in the NBA, it works, because every other counterpart does the same thing. They arent really strategists. Where in FIBA, all your counterparts are really coaching the strategy out of it. So this is great USA team challenge, to find a coaching staff (and players) who is goodie goodie with players, but can also coach them and be a authority figure. Serbian coach can tell, you know Nikita, you are coming of the bench and you are not playing in this matchup a lot, and the guy will understand. But say that to guy like ANT, he will send you to f off. And that is a double edge sword of having these NBA superstats on your team.

ANd nowadays, its no longer exclusive to US. Like, would Slovenia hire best strategist authoritarian in the world first, or the guy who makes Luka happy? They would hire the latter. You can't afford to piss off Luka, thats just how it is with these god among men type players on the court. Euros dont understand a baby sitter type coaches, because they never had god among men type players before, but now they getting them and they starting to understand. Overall, so far I would say, Euros even being best players in the world now, are easier to coach, are easier to accept coaches authority, because they came from different background, but even that will change one day, and the day some super smart coach coaches himself into Luka, Jokic and future superstars like that not commiting to camp because of that coach, that coach is GONE.

Come on, really? Tavares can't score much unless he's being spoon fed the ball. He can't play D outside of the paint. Mirotic is the softest player, mentally and physically in Europe, and he's one of the biggest chokers ever in EuroLeague.

Nedovic? I hope you are joking. I REALLY hope you are joking with Nedovic. Mike James is the only one that deserves such a ranking, and let's be honest, he's never gotten to a final, never won an MVP, or anything like that.

Please tell me you were joking with Nedovic though...

[jezzerinho]

Argument that this was not the best USA team is invalid, because if a player doesn't want to play for you, he is in no way part of your team

This is a very underappreciated viewpoint. It's all very well inventing theoretical lineups of incredible NBA stars, but the NBA is about individuals and not teams, players get paid better for pumping their stats than playing team-first ball. NBA and the media circus around it completely undermines the concept of a tema being better than the sum of its parts. For that reason, players don' see the (financial?) benefit in participating, sonthey shouldn't even figure in the conversation of how powerful America is as a basketball force in global tournaments.

[mikejames23]

Zagars is a beast. NBA could use a guard like him. Wonder if he would pan out.

Latvia without Porzingis is still a great team. Can't wait for the Olympics. Imma grab my popcorn and watch a little Rondae Hollis-Jefferson imitation of Kobe.

[LuDux1]

There's Soviet cartoon, made in 1976, Box With The Secret. In it various part of Music Box mechanism sing about their importance. Then one small part declares that he's most important, other parts make fun of him and SPOILER ALERT he proves them wrong

Watch on YouTube

That part is Kariniauskas

[Mirotic12]

Oh yeah, Jason WIlliams was 55, I think it is not a coincidence that Zagars wears that... Yeah, I completely see that. I still cant believe this guy played in a random Lithuanian town this past season, he is WC star.

It is interesting that some of the players who skip FIBA, usually make excuse that they didnt sign contract yet. Now look at free agent Zagars, how much upcoming money he made in this past 2 weeks?

Zagars value probably went 5 times at least
I dont know his salary last year, but I dont think it was more than 50k. I mean Nevežis does not have the budget to pay more lol.
I guess right now he can easily get 250+

2.6 points per game in the EuroCup, which honestly, is like the 3rd best European league now after EuroLeague and FIBA BCL............

Just think how much a player like that can command? Maybe 150K euros net max probably?

Baskonia and Olympiacos are supposedly looking for guards. Olympiacos is pretty much paying every rotation player at least over a million euros net. And CSKA and Zenit are desperate for players, if he would be willing to play in Russia, and they are paying guys that are, a lot still.

Wow, just thinking about that 2.6 points in EuroCup....might be the biggest money making contract from a FIBA tournament since Galis in '87.