FIBA World Cup 2023 : GERMANY are the new World Champions! (takes on the world and beats it for once...)

[durden_tyler]

The discussion was playing in the NBA. So i used an international scrub (in the NBA) like Campazzo. So maybe the Spanoulis and the likes if it’s Euro.

The only truly great EuroLeague point guards, and by great, I mean like a tier 1 guy all time, that went to the NBA are Sarunas Jasikevicius and Spanoulis. I can't think of any others. Sasha Djordjevic, Antoine Rigaudeau, Sergei Bazarevich, Sergio Rodriguez, Ricky Rubio, Milos Teodosic, Nick Calathes, Marko Jaric, Facu Campazzo, Nico Laprovittola, Mike James, Pablo Prigioni, Marcelo Huertas, Shane Larkin, Kevin Pangos, Jeremy Pargo, Bo McCalebb, Tomas Satoransky, etc., etc. none of them were at the top of the best ever in EuroLeague point guards.

Djordjevic and maybe Rigaudeau and Sergio Rodriguez might be close to that tier 1, but not quite.

The problem you have is, both Jasikevicius and Spanoulis went to the NBA at a time when the EuroLeague players, especially the point guards, were not trusted by 95% of the NBA coaches. Most NBA coaches at that time just automatically believed no European point guard could play in the NBA. Popovich was really the only one that didn't think that.

Then again, you are talking about Zagars, who has 2 weeks of good basketball in his whole life, and it's in a tournament that is clearly below the EuroLeague level. So there is really no comparison here at all.

Zagars would be compared to any other young 23 year old talent, that did nothing, then had a good 2 weeks of play with a national team.

Yeah so your list confirms it, none were legit starters and near scrubs. Thanks for the list. Oh missed Rubio, the best in that list and who was at best, a role player.

[Mirotic12]

Oh missed Rubio, the best in that list and who was at best, a role player.

Rubio was basically a scrub in his whole EuroLeague career, and he only had one good tournament with Spain, in his whole senior career.

Sorry, not the best player in that list.

[lambchop]

Wonder if Austin Reaves regrets not playing for Germany?

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

In retrospect, if Germany wins the gold, yeah, he made a big mistake. He would be getting endless hype if he played with Germany and they won the gold.

True. But at the same time, Germany wouldn't get the credit it deserves for creating a system where players can transition from youth teams to the pros pretty easily and develop their game to a nice level among European teams, despite the sport not being all that popular in the country.

[JasonStern]

Well, I predicted a USA-Canada match-up. And we'll get it. Just for the bronze instead of the gold.

America doesn't really care about the FIBA World Cup. The only reason I even followed it is because it's the off-season. That said, respect to Germany and Serbia for knocking off teams with legit star-level NBA talent (Edwards, SGA).

I am pretty sure players who represented the USA cared. This should sting USA basketball, some of their deficiencies are visible, like the lack of the quality in the front court, slow adaptation to FIBA basketball etc. Also USA U19 squad have lost before the finals this summer. USA basketball definitely have some issues even though they unquestionably have the most and the best talent in the world.

No doubt that the players that played cared. But it was a poorly constructed roster, featuring a ton of young players, that was out-coached. I honestly don't know why FIBA schedules the World Cup the year before the Olympics. The best players care about winning an Olympic gold medal far more than a FIBA trophy. And many aren't going to take two consecutive summers off after playing a full NBA season.

Still, USA and Canada had more talented rosters on paper. Respect again to Germany and Serbia for besting both teams.

[Pachinko_]

I don't know why we keep dancing around the basic question: why does team USA need to have double or triple the amount of talent than their opponent in order to win a basketball game? Because this is the case, it's clear to everybody, nobody would pick Wagner and Obst over Ant and Brunson. Why lose to teams with lesser talent?

It's not that the players don't care, we all watched the games, they care. It's not that they're not together long enough, that's a myth, nobody is. It's not that they were missing players, everybody is missing players. It is because the other teams were simply better at finding quality shots, and they were much more coordinated and active on defense. They have less talent but they have advanced systems and that's how they are able to cover the talent gap. And this is not something you learn in one month, it's something that is drilled into those Europeans from a young age, consistently and for years.

How do you fix it? You can't, for two reasons: first they dont want to fix it because they like their league as it is and they are notoriously stubborn, and second it would involve getting some international coaches in the NBA, and then OMG how can we trust that foreigner to manage the personalities (lol)

It's a dead end, and it's not gonna be fixed just by throwing A teams at it because the talent gap is simply not big enough any more.

Also (in case anyone missed it): THEY DONT CARE LOL

[Pachinko_]

And who knows, maybe Latvia, Lithuania, Serbia and Canada might also bring their A teams next year.

[og15]

The discussion was playing in the NBA. So i used an international scrub (in the NBA) like Campazzo. So maybe the Spanoulis and the likes if it’s Euro.

The only truly great EuroLeague point guards, and by great, I mean like a tier 1 guy all time, that went to the NBA are Sarunas Jasikevicius and Spanoulis. I can't think of any others. Sasha Djordjevic, Antoine Rigaudeau, Sergei Bazarevich, Goran Dragic, Beno Udrih, Sergio Rodriguez, Ricky Rubio, Milos Teodosic, Nick Calathes, Marko Jaric, Facu Campazzo, Nico Laprovittola, Mike James, Pablo Prigioni, Marcelo Huertas, Shane Larkin, Kevin Pangos, Jeremy Pargo, Bo McCalebb, Tomas Satoransky, etc., etc. none of them were at the top of the best ever in EuroLeague point guards.

Djordjevic and maybe Rigaudeau and Sergio Rodriguez might be close to that tier 1, but not quite.

The problem you have is, both Jasikevicius and Spanoulis went to the NBA at a time when the EuroLeague players, especially the point guards, were not trusted by 95% of the NBA coaches. Most NBA coaches at that time just automatically believed no European point guard could play in the NBA. Popovich was really the only one that didn't think that.

Then again, you are talking about Zagars, who has 2 weeks of good basketball in his whole life, and it's in a tournament that is clearly below the EuroLeague level. So there is really no comparison here at all.

Zagars would be compared to any other young 23 year old talent, that did nothing, then had a good 2 weeks of play with a national team.

In 2007?

Jose Calderon played 77 games / 21 mpg and was the starter his next season. Jaric was in the midst of a 5 season stretch where he started 209/328 games playing 28 mpg. Sarunas got 1555 minutes his first season on a 41-41 team that made the playoffs. Those were all different coaches, and more than one with Jaric. I don't know why that's considered lack of trust.

What would those guys have been expecting? That the coaches just give them the keys to the team as soon as they come in, because they've had success elsewhere?

If it's any of those players themselves who said that or felt that, then it just sounds like coming in feeling entitled. There are so many good guard in the NBA, that's the position where competition is the highest, you better come in and be VERY good as an experienced rookie before you say you deserve more opportunity .

...but going beyond guards, Garbajosa was a full time starter at 29 mpg as a rookie, injury took him out. Scola went to Houston and got 2000 minutes as a rookie, etc, so I don't know about the convenient lack of trust argument for guys who didn't do as well as they or others might have expected, especially guys who played like one season.

[Ssj16]

Canada got Dunn’d by Serbia worst then ...

Dude what's with the unnecessary spoiler alert?

[p0peye]

I don't know why we keep dancing around the basic question: why does team USA need to have double or triple the amount of talent than their opponent in order to win a basketball game? Because this is the case, it's clear to everybody, nobody would pick Wagner and Obst over Ant and Brunson. Why lose to teams with lesser talent?

It's not that the players don't care, we all watched the games, they care. It's not that they're not together long enough, that's a myth, nobody is. It's not that they were missing players, everybody is missing players. It is because the other teams were simply better at finding quality shots, and they were much more coordinated and active on defense. They have less talent but they have advanced systems and that's how they are able to cover the talent gap. And this is not something you learn in one month, it's something that is drilled into those Europeans from a young age, consistently and for years.

How do you fix it? You can't, for two reasons: first they dont want to fix it because they like their league as it is and they are notoriously stubborn, and second it would involve getting some international coaches in the NBA, and then OMG how can we trust that foreigner to manage the personalities (lol)

It's a dead end, and it's not gonna be fixed just by throwing A teams at it because the talent gap is simply not big enough any more.

Also (in case anyone missed it): THEY DONT CARE LOL

When you say talent, you probably mean athletic ability, not actual basketball skills (frequently referred to as "fundamentals" in USA).

[durden_tyler]

Canada +7.5 vs USA
Serbia +1.5 vs Germany


This is going to be a great final World Cup day.

Picking Serbia to win it all!

[TimberKat]

I don't know why we keep dancing around the basic question: why does team USA need to have double or triple the amount of talent than their opponent in order to win a basketball game? Because this is the case, it's clear to everybody, nobody would pick Wagner and Obst over Ant and Brunson. Why lose to teams with lesser talent?

It's not that the players don't care, we all watched the games, they care. It's not that they're not together long enough, that's a myth, nobody is. It's not that they were missing players, everybody is missing players. It is because the other teams were simply better at finding quality shots, and they were much more coordinated and active on defense. They have less talent but they have advanced systems and that's how they are able to cover the talent gap. And this is not something you learn in one month, it's something that is drilled into those Europeans from a young age, consistently and for years.

How do you fix it? You can't, for two reasons: first they dont want to fix it because they like their league as it is and they are notoriously stubborn, and second it would involve getting some international coaches in the NBA, and then OMG how can we trust that foreigner to manage the personalities (lol)

It's a dead end, and it's not gonna be fixed just by throwing A teams at it because the talent gap is simply not big enough any more.

Also (in case anyone missed it): THEY DONT CARE LOL

When you say talent, you probably mean athletic ability, not actual basketball skills (frequently referred to as "fundamentals" in USA).

We Americans are cowboys. Each one do things my way. That is the way. AAU is looking for individual skills that has potential to make it to pro. No one cares about fundamentals.

[Ruma85]

I don't know why we keep dancing around the basic question: why does team USA need to have double or triple the amount of talent than their opponent in order to win a basketball game? Because this is the case, it's clear to everybody, nobody would pick Wagner and Obst over Ant and Brunson. Why lose to teams with lesser talent?

It's not that the players don't care, we all watched the games, they care. It's not that they're not together long enough, that's a myth, nobody is. It's not that they were missing players, everybody is missing players. It is because the other teams were simply better at finding quality shots, and they were much more coordinated and active on defense. They have less talent but they have advanced systems and that's how they are able to cover the talent gap. And this is not something you learn in one month, it's something that is drilled into those Europeans from a young age, consistently and for years.

How do you fix it? You can't, for two reasons: first they dont want to fix it because they like their league as it is and they are notoriously stubborn, and second it would involve getting some international coaches in the NBA, and then OMG how can we trust that foreigner to manage the personalities (lol)

It's a dead end, and it's not gonna be fixed just by throwing A teams at it because the talent gap is simply not big enough any more.

Also (in case anyone missed it): THEY DONT CARE LOL

When you say talent, you probably mean athletic ability, not actual basketball skills (frequently referred to as "fundamentals" in USA).

We Americans are cowboys. Each one do things my way. That is the way. AAU is looking for individual skills that has potential to make it to pro. No one cares about fundamentals.

Which is unfortunate.

[Rastas]

Canada +7.5 vs USA
Serbia +1.5 vs Germany


This is going to be a great final World Cup day.

Picking Serbia to win it all!

Thanks , your picks always fail , putting the house on Germany!

[RomaBuck]

Oh missed Rubio, the best in that list and who was at best, a role player.

Rubio was basically a scrub in his whole EuroLeague career, and he only had one good tournament with Spain, in his whole senior career.

Sorry, not the best player in that list.

I respect your knowledge of euro players, but Ricky is not a scrub. He is an amazignly skilled, talented player who has gotten decimated by serious injuries, has had personal issues and kept on ticking. He is a floor general, has court vision and he can drive and shoot at an acceptable rate, though not always and that was his shortcoming.
He has one thing that most of the players today do not have. It's called HEART, guts and confidence. Sasha was talented, but not ready for the NBA then. Spanoulis, no way he could cut it when he came in. I watched him play for the Rockets. He was not athletic enough to make it. Same with Sarunas, who was stronger than him but still

Rubio did just fine.

[azcatz11]

Canada +7.5 vs USA
Serbia +1.5 vs Germany


This is going to be a great final World Cup day.

Picking Serbia to win it all!

Canada feels like free money here

[durden_tyler]

Canada +7.5 vs USA
Serbia +1.5 vs Germany


This is going to be a great final World Cup day.

Picking Serbia to win it all!

Canada feels like free money here

That's why i'm avoiding it, feels like too easy. Might just go Over on that Bronze game, though the Americans have been embarrassed defensively in their losses so i wonder if still show the defensive effort tonight.

[RomaBuck]

Canada +7.5 vs USA
Serbia +1.5 vs Germany


This is going to be a great final World Cup day.

Picking Serbia to win it all!

Thanks , your picks always fail , putting the house on Germany!

Haha, me too. Germany and USA to cover. Brooks to be ejected at -150 lol

[azcatz11]

Canada +7.5 vs USA
Serbia +1.5 vs Germany


This is going to be a great final World Cup day.

Picking Serbia to win it all!

Canada feels like free money here

That's why i'm avoiding it, feels like too easy. Might just go Over on that Bronze game, though the Americans have been embarrassed defensively in their losses so i wonder if still show the defensive effort tonight.

I said the same thing about the Colorado - Nebraska game today. 90% of the public was on CU. I still bet CU and won.

I'm betting on Team Canada

[-Luke-]

Didn't think I would see the day when German soccer national team loses every single game and the basketball national team is in the World Cup final, but here we are. Looking forward to two good games today.

[Pachinko_]

When you say talent, you probably mean athletic ability, not actual basketball skills (frequently referred to as "fundamentals" in USA).

I think they always have the best 1-1 players in the world. Athleticism, handles, shooting, ball defence, lateral movement, strength. Basically think of it this way: they are the best at anything you can work on by yourself, and pretty much the worst in anything you need the whole team to work on it with you. It's almost like they never do team practice but they do more individual practices than anyone else.

You have to respect the work, you can see it, it's there, it's just not team work. Or not enough teamwork anyway.