OT: FIBA 2023

Negrodamus · Post #81 » by **Negrodamus** » Sat Sep 9, 2023 3:43 pm

Shai > Doncic starting next year.

Zumramania · Post #82 » by **Zumramania** » Sat Sep 9, 2023 4:51 pm

I think that Doncic needs to get out of Dallas, it's a horrible team.

SixthStreet · Post #83 » by **SixthStreet** » Sat Sep 9, 2023 8:05 pm

Zumramania wrote:I think that Doncic needs to get out of Dallas, it's a horrible team.

Morey's working on it.

Post #84 » by **Stanford** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:52 pm

https://youtu.be/xiJJIacdF-E?si=6Ien8g_0dsMAMXLy

Negrodamus · Post #85 » by **Negrodamus** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 2:40 pm

Lol, I would rather have a college team out there for the World Cup than a bunch of uninspired pros.

It is funny to read all the commentary that the US isn’t even the best in North America, much less the world.

Kobblehead · Post #86 » by **Kobblehead** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:03 pm

Team USA definitely needed Tatum, Brown, and Mitchell.

Way too many guys on this roster with little to no NBA playoff experience so they aren't used to pressurized moments.

76ciology · Post #87 » by **76ciology** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 4:47 am

76ciology wrote:
Haliburton is overrated. All he do is to push the pace to strengthen USA’s small ball. But he’s not someone you can count on in the halfcourt.

SGA was pacing. And Canada made the right call to let Brooks cook and when USA gets serious down the stretch Canada saved a lot of SGA ammo. SGA is more than a level above Brunson and Haliburton.

SGA made the right decision to not hunt Reaves down the stretch but USA made the wrong decision not to send help on Barrett and Brooks attacking Reaves. Ingram being a negative and Brunson underperforming hurts the USA in this tourney

Crunch time 4th

Dagger at OT to seal it

Negrodamus · Post #88 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:28 pm

Selfishly, I'm glad he didn't, but I think USA could have honestly used Maxey on the team as he is an assist converter and will move without the ball. Desmond Bane too. I don't think we really need Anthony Edwards running ISO constantly to give us the best chance to win. It's just not that type of game. Also, instead of Bobby Portis, they should have tried to pull in Andre Drummond or even Dwight Howard (short flight lol) to play rim protector. Those two are complete monsters on defense when you remove the 3 second rule. Ok, you want younger guys? Mitchell Robinson, Evan Mobley, Claxton, Jarrett Allen... I mean, there have been some legit defensive studs at the big man position that can play a role of defending the paint without worrying about 3 second call.

As I said before, it all doesn't really matter that much since it's the World Cup and not the Olympics, but I wish they took it more serious than a couple of vets and a bunch of young stars who need the ball in their hands all the time when playing for their respective NBA team. Stack the team with two way players and add a few stars if you're not going to get the Redeem Team level talent for the world cup. This was a poorly built team, imo. They are the Knicks of USA national teams.

76ciology · Post #89 » by **76ciology** » Tue Sep 12, 2023 12:12 am

Talent gap is closer than before. Other teams have better chemistry (some has been playing together for 10+ years) and have more talented bigs to make up for it.

USA having better talent will definitely make a difference that other teams will have hard time to match. But again, talent gap (even on coaching) is catching up and in a do or die type environment, variance play a bigger role. Upsets, although not very likely, is more likely than before.

More concerning is this current group of upcoming stars from US to replace LeBron, Curry and KD doesnt look that promising outside Ant Edwards who’s arguably only just as good or maybe a level below as international star SGA. For sure, every year there’s gonna be new talent incoming. But looking at the trend, the talented players with superstar upside has been coming from EU or Africa like Doncic, Giannis, Embiid, Jokic or Wembanyama.

Negrodamus · Post #90 » by **Negrodamus** » Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:33 am

76ciology wrote:Talent gap is closer than before. Other teams have better chemistry (some has been playing together for 10+ years) and have more talented bigs to make up for it.

USA having better talent will definitely make a difference that other teams will have hard time to match. But again, talent gap (even on coaching) is catching up and in a do or die type environment, variance play a bigger role. Upsets, although not very likely, is more likely than before.

More concerning is this current group of upcoming stars from US to replace LeBron, Curry and KD doesnt look that promising outside Ant Edwards who’s arguably only just as good or maybe a level below as international star SGA. For sure, every year there’s gonna be new talent incoming. But looking at the trend, the talented players with superstar upside has been coming from EU or Africa like Doncic, Giannis, Embiid, Jokic or Wembanyama.

I agree the newer generation is trash. But there’s a difference between having Ant Edwards leading the team and LeBron/Durant leading the team. Players don’t willingly make concessions and play a role when guys with clout don’t set them straight. This WC team needed more guys 28+ who are fringe all stars (or one actual all star) to set the young guys straight. I think someone like DeRozan would have done something for his legacy if he ran this team and won it all.

76ciology · Post #91 » by **76ciology** » Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:01 am

Negrodamus wrote:
76ciology wrote:Talent gap is closer than before. Other teams have better chemistry (some has been playing together for 10+ years) and have more talented bigs to make up for it.

USA having better talent will definitely make a difference that other teams will have hard time to match. But again, talent gap (even on coaching) is catching up and in a do or die type environment, variance play a bigger role. Upsets, although not very likely, is more likely than before.

More concerning is this current group of upcoming stars from US to replace LeBron, Curry and KD doesnt look that promising outside Ant Edwards who’s arguably only just as good or maybe a level below as international star SGA. For sure, every year there’s gonna be new talent incoming. But looking at the trend, the talented players with superstar upside has been coming from EU or Africa like Doncic, Giannis, Embiid, Jokic or Wembanyama.

I agree the newer generation is trash. But there’s a difference between having Ant Edwards leading the team and LeBron/Durant leading the team. Players don’t willingly make concessions and play a role when guys with clout don’t set them straight. This WC team needed more guys 28+ who are fringe all stars (or one actual all star) to set the young guys straight. I think someone like DeRozan would have done something for his legacy if he ran this team and won it all.

If i would have to guess. Its because they’d have more benefit getting these young players more exposure than 28+ fringe allstars. With US eyes is more on the olympics than the world cup. You look at the next roster for the olympics, I see maybe 3 guys being included there like Ant, Hali and Mikal. This would be a great learning experience for them.

US also get to try how they’d fair playing small-ball. The last game against Canada is most evident to this narrative.

You also have to ask yourself.. if US won the worldcup this year.. would LeBron, KD and Curry suit up? I think there’s a good chance they wont. Losing might be a blessing in disguise for the US.

76ciology · Post #92 » by **76ciology** » Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:08 am

I’ll post the Serbia-Germany clips later.

I saw Petrusev play. I think he’s respected as an offensive player. Their coach, who i really respect for I do think Serb’s is the best coached team out there, decided to put him in when they’re needing offense.

Petrusev can shoot 3s and score from the post, you can’t just switch unto him to defend the two man game unlike Reed. Defensively, he’s mobile and not slow footed. he’s just average defensively to just slightly average at best.

Jovic is very raw and I dont see much upside with him. But he’s got good shooting touch and physique.

The guy that impressed me is Aleksa Avramović. This guy is smart and plays both ends like Pat Beverly but a way better shooter.

76ciology · Post #93 » by **76ciology** » Tue Sep 12, 2023 4:35 pm

76ciology wrote:I’ll post the Serbia-Germany clips later.

I saw Petrusev play. I think he’s respected as an offensive player. Their coach, who i really respect for I do think Serb’s is the best coached team out there, decided to put him in when they’re needing offense.

Petrusev can shoot 3s and score from the post, you can’t just switch unto him to defend the two man game unlike Reed. Defensively, he’s mobile and not slow footed. he’s just average defensively to just slightly average at best.

Jovic is very raw and I dont see much upside with him. But he’s got good shooting touch and physique.

The guy that impressed me is Aleksa Avramović. This guy is smart and plays both ends like Pat Beverly but a way better shooter.

The biggest shot in the game

Celebration

elchengue20 · Post #94 » by **elchengue20** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:58 am

Talent gap isn't as big as 30 years ago. The average overseas player isnt as far as they used to be. USA cant get away anymore with building a young roster 15 days before the tournament and try to beat teams that have years playing together. They have to build some continuity and also to bring experienced grown up players.

Plus, FIBA and NBA are different sports. Rules and court size are different. That also its becoming a bigger and bigger disadvantage over the years. NBA game has evolved to maximize rules that doesnt even exist in FIBA. They need to take this more seriously and have a group that is used to the FIBA game.

Finally, USA born talent is declining. Lebron, Curry, Durant are on their last legs and the new generation doesnt seem to have one player that could be nearly as good. Also other some very goods players like Khawi, Lillard, AD, Kyrie, Harden, Westbrook, Thompson, Butler are in their 30's. Still, its going to be the deeper and more talented nation, but likely not as dominant as always has been.

The 2 really good prospects the USA have produced these last few years are Zion and Ja who have huge work ethic and maturity issues. That's also becoming a problem right now.

Negrodamus · Post #95 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:12 pm

The unsung villain of USA basketball is AAU and how little it instills the fundamentals of the game. Also the hype machine turns most guys into egotistical **** by the time they’re 16. So now they’re 22, basically run their pro team, and being asked to play a role by Steve Kerr? Good luck lol.

DCasey91 · Post #96 » by **DCasey91** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:18 pm

Why is the development systems so bad in the NBA vs the other big 3?

I get it now it all handed on a platter, sheer lack of competition, poor pathways etc, more money than brains.

Majors, NFL, NHL are grown men sport, NBA…. Not so. At least they take years and def get their licks.

Negrodamus · Post #97 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:20 pm

DCasey91 wrote:Why is the development systems so bad in the NBA vs the other big 3?

I get it now it all handed on a platter, sheer lack of competition, poor pathways etc, more money than brains.

Majors, NFL, NHL are grown men sport, NBA…. Not so. At least they take years and def get their licks.

Cream rises to the top. It happens in the NBA too (guys like Jimmy Butler, Kawhi Leonard, Draymond, etc), but the development process in HS/AAU allows trash players to continue to walk through the door despite being trash. Emoni Bates comes to mind. Spent his entire career with the greenest of green lights. Still makes the NBA despite being a complete headcase with tons of baggage despite his inefficient chucking with no other quantifiable skills.

NHL and MLB doesn't have the microscope. NFL has it happen to an extent, but you need to play 3 years in college; so getting exposed will happen before the big pay day.

Jailblazers7 · Post #98 » by **Jailblazers7** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:40 pm

I think the NBA “farm system” is the most broken of all the sports. NFL has college football, which is a mess but still good at talent development. MLB minor league system is still chugging along business as usual. NHL has their farm system plus the Canada juniors system. MLS is actually investing a ton into youth academies.

Basketball is broken & splintered. AAU is a rotten system, college ball was broken by the 1 & done rule, & now we have joke leagues like Overtime Elite siphoning talent. On top of that there’s now an industry of Drew Hanlen wannabes who call themselves “skill trainers”.

phillynative · Post #99 » by **phillynative** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:15 pm

mjkvol · Post #100 » by **mjkvol** » Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:58 pm

Jailblazers7 wrote:I think the NBA “farm system” is the most broken of all the sports. NFL has college football, which is a mess but still good at talent development. MLB minor league system is still chugging along business as usual. NHL has their farm system plus the Canada juniors system. MLS is actually investing a ton into youth academies.

Basketball is broken & splintered. AAU is a rotten system, college ball was broken by the 1 & done rule, & now we have joke leagues like Overtime Elite siphoning talent. On top of that there’s now an industry of Drew Hanlen wannabes who call themselves “skill trainers”.

And if Silver the snake gets his wish players will be able to be drafted right out of HS, which will further degrade the development system, and might actually be the best thing that ever happens to NCAA hoops, as program building might actually become the standard again, as it was before '1 and done'.