Haynes: Damian Lillard Requests Trade

[MoneyBall]

If Scottie was on the table for Lillard, the trade would already have been finalized. Masai says no to Scottie for Durant, but yes to Scottie for Lillard? Doesn't make sense to me.

The only player that does makes sense to me is OG.

Masai said no for Durant after Scottie won ROY. It makes sense that he would be offered now because Scottie struggled at times last year. Player values fluctuate, and increased data can help make better bets. OG heading into UFA isn't going to be attractive to Portland. He would be attractive to competitive teams to pick up a couple of late FRPs, which would be attractive to Portland. But, if the Raptors are trading for Lillard why would they trade OG?

I don't believe Masai's player valuations fluctuate like that, though. That's more of a reflection of realgm than Masai imo.

I can't speak for Portland, but I'd much rather have OG and his bird rights than Tyler Herro. No hesitation. Besides, if OG was willing to play in Indy for a bigger role why wouldn't he consider staying in Portland for the same reason?

They would trade OG because you have to give something of value to aquire Lillard. I'd add Gradey in there with expirings and picks.

[ATLTimekeeper]

If Scottie was on the table for Lillard, the trade would already have been finalized. Masai says no to Scottie for Durant, but yes to Scottie for Lillard? Doesn't make sense to me.

The only player that does makes sense to me is OG.

Masai said no for Durant after Scottie won ROY. It makes sense that he would be offered now because Scottie struggled at times last year. Player values fluctuate, and increased data can help make better bets. OG heading into UFA isn't going to be attractive to Portland. He would be attractive to competitive teams to pick up a couple of late FRPs, which would be attractive to Portland. But, if the Raptors are trading for Lillard why would they trade OG?

I don't believe Masai's player valuations fluctuate like that, though. That's more of a reflection of realgm than Masai imo.

I can't speak for Portland, but I'd much rather have OG and his bird rights than Tyler Herro. No hesitation. Besides, if OG was willing to play in Indy for a bigger role why wouldn't he consider staying in Portland for the same reason?

They would trade OG because you have to give something of value to aquire Lillard. I'd add Gradey in there with expirings and picks.

That's the nature of the NBA. Masai was ready to trade Lowry for Iman Shumpert and a first at one point. I'm sure that price went up over the years.

OG can still walk, though. What if he doesn't want to play in Portland? If he walks, they traded Lillard for... Gradey Dick? That's a huge risk for them. Portland doesn't want Tyler Herro, they want the picks Tyler Herro might bring back. Miami's current offer is 3-4 FRPs with swaps/2nds/prospects.

The Raptors could trade OG for 2 FRPs and Dick to approximate 3, and then kick in another and add some swaps. That would keep Scottie here, but a team with Dame is stronger with OG on the wing than with Scottie.

[MoneyBall]

Masai said no for Durant after Scottie won ROY. It makes sense that he would be offered now because Scottie struggled at times last year. Player values fluctuate, and increased data can help make better bets. OG heading into UFA isn't going to be attractive to Portland. He would be attractive to competitive teams to pick up a couple of late FRPs, which would be attractive to Portland. But, if the Raptors are trading for Lillard why would they trade OG?

I don't believe Masai's player valuations fluctuate like that, though. That's more of a reflection of realgm than Masai imo.

I can't speak for Portland, but I'd much rather have OG and his bird rights than Tyler Herro. No hesitation. Besides, if OG was willing to play in Indy for a bigger role why wouldn't he consider staying in Portland for the same reason?

They would trade OG because you have to give something of value to aquire Lillard. I'd add Gradey in there with expirings and picks.

That's the nature of the NBA. Masai was ready to trade Lowry for Iman Shumpert and a first at one point. I'm sure that price went up over the years.

OG can still walk, though. What if he doesn't want to play in Portland? If he walks, they traded Lillard for... Gradey Dick? That's a huge risk for them. Portland doesn't want Tyler Herro, they want the picks Tyler Herro might bring back. Miami's current offer is 3-4 FRPs with swaps/2nds/prospects.

The Raptors could trade OG for 2 FRPs and Dick to approximate 3, and then kick in another and add some swaps. That would keep Scottie here, but a team with Dame is stronger with OG on the wing than with Scottie.

This is Masai we're talking about, he's notorious for having high valuations, barely budging on asking price (unless it's going up). He will let someone walk in FA before selling low. For better or worse, this is his management style.

Of course OG could leave, but it's a calculated risk. They could incorporate him this season and see how it goes. It's higher risk, but also higher reward. If things don't seem to pan out by deadline, then they can get their picks for him.

Also, Gradey is a lottery pick (projected to go top 10). None of the picks from Miami will likely come close to that. If POR also wants Achiuwa, or Boucher, and/or Flynn we can add them too.

Honestly, I don't think the Raptors would be a legitimate Championship contender even with a Scottie for Lillard swap. The window is short and the depth is still weak.

[Duffman100]

I don't believe Masai's player valuations fluctuate like that, though. That's more of a reflection of realgm than Masai imo.

I can't speak for Portland, but I'd much rather have OG and his bird rights than Tyler Herro. No hesitation. Besides, if OG was willing to play in Indy for a bigger role why wouldn't he consider staying in Portland for the same reason?

They would trade OG because you have to give something of value to aquire Lillard. I'd add Gradey in there with expirings and picks.

That's the nature of the NBA. Masai was ready to trade Lowry for Iman Shumpert and a first at one point. I'm sure that price went up over the years.

OG can still walk, though. What if he doesn't want to play in Portland? If he walks, they traded Lillard for... Gradey Dick? That's a huge risk for them. Portland doesn't want Tyler Herro, they want the picks Tyler Herro might bring back. Miami's current offer is 3-4 FRPs with swaps/2nds/prospects.

The Raptors could trade OG for 2 FRPs and Dick to approximate 3, and then kick in another and add some swaps. That would keep Scottie here, but a team with Dame is stronger with OG on the wing than with Scottie.

This is Masai we're talking about, he's notorious for having high valuations, barely budging on asking price (unless it's going up). He will let someone walk in FA before selling low. For better or worse, this is his management style.

This has happened like... once right?

[MoneyBall]

That's the nature of the NBA. Masai was ready to trade Lowry for Iman Shumpert and a first at one point. I'm sure that price went up over the years.

OG can still walk, though. What if he doesn't want to play in Portland? If he walks, they traded Lillard for... Gradey Dick? That's a huge risk for them. Portland doesn't want Tyler Herro, they want the picks Tyler Herro might bring back. Miami's current offer is 3-4 FRPs with swaps/2nds/prospects.

The Raptors could trade OG for 2 FRPs and Dick to approximate 3, and then kick in another and add some swaps. That would keep Scottie here, but a team with Dame is stronger with OG on the wing than with Scottie.

This is Masai we're talking about, he's notorious for having high valuations, barely budging on asking price (unless it's going up). He will let someone walk in FA before selling low. For better or worse, this is his management style.

This has happened like... once right?

He did the same with GTJ. Instead of trading him for best offer (which were likely all pretty low) he held on to him and risked losing him for nothing.

[Duffman100]

This is Masai we're talking about, he's notorious for having high valuations, barely budging on asking price (unless it's going up). He will let someone walk in FA before selling low. For better or worse, this is his management style.

This has happened like... once right?

He did the same with GTJ. Instead of trading him for best offer (which were likely all pretty low) he held on to him and risked losing him for nothing.

But that didn't happen. It's possible he knew GTJ was opting in.

[MoneyBall]

This has happened like... once right?

He did the same with GTJ. Instead of trading him for best offer (which were likely all pretty low) he held on to him and risked losing him for nothing.

But that didn't happen. It's possible he knew GTJ was opting in.

I'm saying Masai will not panic sell because he *may* loose a player for nothing in FA. It's kind of a shrewd negotiating strategy; meet my price or we don't have a deal, no bluff.

The fact that GTJ eventually opted in doesn't contradict that point.

[Duffman100]

He did the same with GTJ. Instead of trading him for best offer (which were likely all pretty low) he held on to him and risked losing him for nothing.

But that didn't happen. It's possible he knew GTJ was opting in.

I'm saying Masai will not panic sell because he *may* loose a player for nothing in FA. It's kind of a shrewd negotiating strategy; meet my price or we don't have a deal, no bluff.

The fact that GTJ eventually opted in doesn't contradict that point.

It may contradict it if you don't know the internals of what was happening. It's possible he wasn't going to lose GTJ to FA because GTJ already gave his word he was opting in.

Without this knowledge, you really can't say it one way or the other.

[SkywalkerAC]

He did the same with GTJ. Instead of trading him for best offer (which were likely all pretty low) he held on to him and risked losing him for nothing.

But that didn't happen. It's possible he knew GTJ was opting in.

I'm saying Masai will not panic sell because he *may* loose a player for nothing in FA. It's kind of a shrewd negotiating strategy; meet my price or we don't have a deal, no bluff.

The fact that GTJ eventually opted in doesn't contradict that point.

And it's a measured risk. The media, and fans, made a huge deal out of losing Fred for nothing. But the opportunity cost of signing Dennis and McDaniels is not nothing (I'd argue it's probably superior). You can't let player after player walk for nothing but there's a not-so-hidden but oft-ignored tradeoff when you're talking about big ticket players especially.

[Tor_Raps]

Well, the wiretap has given hope to everyone again. I so think we can get Lillard on the cheap here. Let's go make it happen and make this season exciting at least.

[MoneyBall]

But that didn't happen. It's possible he knew GTJ was opting in.

I'm saying Masai will not panic sell because he *may* loose a player for nothing in FA. It's kind of a shrewd negotiating strategy; meet my price or we don't have a deal, no bluff.

The fact that GTJ eventually opted in doesn't contradict that point.

It may contradict it if you don't know the internals of what was happening. It's possible he wasn't going to lose GTJ to FA because GTJ already gave his word he was opting in.

Without this knowledge, you really can't say it one way or the other.

None of us have inside info, I'm just going off of the info that has been made available. He did it with Vanvleet, so it really shouldn't surprise anyone if he also did it with GTJ.

In any case, what's your point? That Masai doesn't have a reputation of being a tough person to bargain with? Cause that information has been made public.

[Kingsway_fan]

Well, the wiretap has given hope to everyone again. I so think we can get Lillard on the cheap here. Let's go make it happen and make this season exciting at least.

SCOTTIE starting at PG backed by Schröder doesn't excite you? (Asking for a friend)

[JRoy]

If Scottie was on the table for Lillard, the trade would already have been finalized. Masai says no to Scottie for Durant, but yes to Scottie for Lillard? Doesn't make sense to me.

The only player that does makes sense to me is OG.

Masai said no for Durant after Scottie won ROY. It makes sense that he would be offered now because Scottie struggled at times last year. Player values fluctuate, and increased data can help make better bets. OG heading into UFA isn't going to be attractive to Portland. He would be attractive to competitive teams to pick up a couple of late FRPs, which would be attractive to Portland. But, if the Raptors are trading for Lillard why would they trade OG?

I don't believe Masai's player valuations fluctuate like that, though. That's more of a reflection of realgm than Masai imo.

I can't speak for Portland, but I'd much rather have OG and his bird rights than Tyler Herro. No hesitation. Besides, if OG was willing to play in Indy for a bigger role why wouldn't he consider staying in Portland for the same reason?

They would trade OG because you have to give something of value to aquire Lillard. I'd add Gradey in there with expirings and picks.

POR can’t afford to invest in two overpaid non-star forwards.

I’d rather have OG than Grant but I’d rather have neither at the cost. Too far from contention to pay that kind of money for a top shelf role player.

Curious how you think OG would handle a larger role on offense. He can’t even dribble.

[SkywalkerAC]

Well, the wiretap has given hope to everyone again. I so think we can get Lillard on the cheap here. Let's go make it happen and make this season exciting at least.

SCOTTIE starting at PG backed by Schröder doesn't excite you? (Asking for a friend)

Excites the hell out of me.

[JRoy]

OG and Gradey Dick get it done. Go ham making the salaries match.

So…

Another expensive non star sf and a big guard?

Pass.

[mtcan]

OG and Gradey Dick get it done. Go ham making the salaries match.

So…

Another expensive non star sf and a big guard?

Pass.

You want Scottie don't you?

If Toronto trades for Dame...Scottie is in the deal. Do you agree?

I think some of us get it. There are a few that think Portland wants 26 year old OG to go along with the 20 year old prospects. Nah...not happening.

[JRoy]

OG and Gradey Dick get it done. Go ham making the salaries match.

So…

Another expensive non star sf and a big guard?

Pass.

You want Scottie don't you?

If Toronto trades for Dame...Scottie is in the deal. Do you agree?

Scottie would be the biggest asset coming from TOR.

That could work for me, depending upon the rest of the deal.

[MoneyBall]

Masai said no for Durant after Scottie won ROY. It makes sense that he would be offered now because Scottie struggled at times last year. Player values fluctuate, and increased data can help make better bets. OG heading into UFA isn't going to be attractive to Portland. He would be attractive to competitive teams to pick up a couple of late FRPs, which would be attractive to Portland. But, if the Raptors are trading for Lillard why would they trade OG?

I don't believe Masai's player valuations fluctuate like that, though. That's more of a reflection of realgm than Masai imo.

I can't speak for Portland, but I'd much rather have OG and his bird rights than Tyler Herro. No hesitation. Besides, if OG was willing to play in Indy for a bigger role why wouldn't he consider staying in Portland for the same reason?

They would trade OG because you have to give something of value to aquire Lillard. I'd add Gradey in there with expirings and picks.

POR can’t afford to invest in two overpaid non-star forwards.

I’d rather have OG than Grant but I’d rather have neither at the cost. Too far from contention to pay that kind of money for a top shelf role player.

Curious how you think OG would handle a larger role on offense. He can’t even dribble.

Grant will be 30. I figure they'd trade him anyway.

If you had to pick, would you rather have OG or Tyler Herro?

I don't think OG can handl more offense unless he's fed more catch and shoot threes and post ups.

[sidsid]

MoneyBall has already stated the Occam's Razor position: if Barnes was actually available Lillard would have been on this team 2 months ago. So you can pretty much set aside that fan fiction.

For a guy who wouldn't budge on swapping a sophomore OG for Poetl in the Kawhi trade, there isn't a version of Masai who would be drunk enough to throw in a ROY to beat a bloated bad contract Herro plus a handful of picks package

We'd just offer better/more picks plus Grady or Precious or whatever. Until another team is rumoured to provide a better package, that's pretty much where we are.

[JRoy]

I don't believe Masai's player valuations fluctuate like that, though. That's more of a reflection of realgm than Masai imo.

I can't speak for Portland, but I'd much rather have OG and his bird rights than Tyler Herro. No hesitation. Besides, if OG was willing to play in Indy for a bigger role why wouldn't he consider staying in Portland for the same reason?

They would trade OG because you have to give something of value to aquire Lillard. I'd add Gradey in there with expirings and picks.

POR can’t afford to invest in two overpaid non-star forwards.

I’d rather have OG than Grant but I’d rather have neither at the cost. Too far from contention to pay that kind of money for a top shelf role player.

Curious how you think OG would handle a larger role on offense. He can’t even dribble.

Grant will be 30. I figure they'd trade him anyway.

If you had to pick, would you rather have OG or Tyler Herro?

I don't think OG can handl more offense unless he's fed more catch and shoot threes and post ups.

I don’t want either at the salary.