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Al Horford Thread

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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#381 » by darrendaye » Fri Jun 30, 2023 6:41 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
darrendaye wrote:
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Stevens did right by finding a replacement.


Eh, I might argue he did wrong not adding one last year.

Who did you have in mind last year?


Somewhat snarky response by me. Not directed at you, residual frustration at results last year. But many (might say most) of us were clamoring for Brad to add another rotational big to reduce Al's minutes. More honest response, he did go after Bryant, which was the best play, but got burned.

As you can tell, I wasn't prepared to get called on it. 8-)
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#382 » by zoyathedestroya » Fri Jun 30, 2023 6:44 pm

darrendaye wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:
darrendaye wrote:
Eh, I might argue he did wrong not adding one last year.

Who did you have in mind last year?


Somewhat snarky response by me. Not directed at you, residual frustration at results last year. But many (might say most) of us were clamoring for Brad to add another rotational big to reduce Al's minutes. More honest response, he did go after Bryant, which was the best play, but got burned.

Stat I posted showed decline on the defensive end of the floor for Al. I don't think Bryant would've helped there. Not really sure there was a starter-caliber big we could've plugged in last year for cheap. I wanted Porzingis' frontcourt partner Gafford at some point last season though. And of course Poeltl. Both might have been too expensive (salary and/or trade cost).
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#383 » by cloverleaf » Sat Jul 1, 2023 9:56 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:
darrendaye wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Who did you have in mind last year?


Somewhat snarky response by me. Not directed at you, residual frustration at results last year. But many (might say most) of us were clamoring for Brad to add another rotational big to reduce Al's minutes. More honest response, he did go after Bryant, which was the best play, but got burned.

Stat I posted showed decline on the defensive end of the floor for Al. I don't think Bryant would've helped there. Not really sure there was a starter-caliber big we could've plugged in last year for cheap. I wanted Porzingis' frontcourt partner Gafford at some point last season though. And of course Poeltl. Both might have been too expensive (salary and/or trade cost).


I could have been behind all-in on Poeltl last year, but from where they are I think Porzi is great. They still could use some second- or third-string center beef, however.
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#384 » by sam_I_am » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:08 am

cloverleaf wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:
darrendaye wrote:
Somewhat snarky response by me. Not directed at you, residual frustration at results last year. But many (might say most) of us were clamoring for Brad to add another rotational big to reduce Al's minutes. More honest response, he did go after Bryant, which was the best play, but got burned.

Stat I posted showed decline on the defensive end of the floor for Al. I don't think Bryant would've helped there. Not really sure there was a starter-caliber big we could've plugged in last year for cheap. I wanted Porzingis' frontcourt partner Gafford at some point last season though. And of course Poeltl. Both might have been too expensive (salary and/or trade cost).


I could have been behind all-in on Poeltl last year, but from where they are I think Porzi is great. They still could use some second- or third-string center beef, however.


I believe Horford is an all time great who had a hugely impactful season 2021-22 even by his standards. The only way for this team to truly stay at the level of finals run was to find a replacement with top 3 pick talent like Al had in his prime. Porzingas has not been as impactful in his career as peak Al but he is at that elite talent level with much needed length and when healthy is a quality replacement. It’s a risk trading a winning player like Smart for a guy who has underachieved but a worthwhile one. Grant and Timelord were never going to cut it as Al’s replacement. Neither would run of the mill bigs like Poetl.
"I think the criticism's stupid," Stevens said. "So I don't care. I'm with Jaylen (Brown) on that. Those two had achieved more than most 25 and 26 year olds ever had. I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts ripped out than suck."
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#385 » by cloverleaf » Sat Jul 1, 2023 12:41 pm

sam_I_am wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Stat I posted showed decline on the defensive end of the floor for Al. I don't think Bryant would've helped there. Not really sure there was a starter-caliber big we could've plugged in last year for cheap. I wanted Porzingis' frontcourt partner Gafford at some point last season though. And of course Poeltl. Both might have been too expensive (salary and/or trade cost).


I could have been behind all-in on Poeltl last year, but from where they are I think Porzi is great. They still could use some second- or third-string center beef, however.


I believe Horford is an all time great who had a hugely impactful season 2021-22 even by his standards. The only way for this team to truly stay at the level of finals run was to find a replacement with top 3 pick talent like Al had in his prime. Porzingas has not been as impactful in his career as peak Al but he is at that elite talent level with much needed length and when healthy is a quality replacement. It’s a risk trading a winning player like Smart for a guy who has underachieved but a worthwhile one. Grant and Timelord were never going to cut it as Al’s replacement. Neither would run of the mill bigs like Poetl.


Al has been a very good, and not always purely finesse, player through his career. But he's old and Porzi was the more impactful and reliable player last year.

Instead of having a winning culture through Smart's 9 years here, the team has been infected with a "me and my stats and league recognition first" culture through that time. That hasn't always been primarily Smart's fault, but the C's brass feeding into his "defensive player of last year, after campaigning relentlessly for it, and now I don't have to play D unless, like the team, I really need to conjure it in a critical playoff game" attitude IMO has helped to create the persistent attitude problems with the Jays.

My argument is that JP, instead of a bench full of bigs that Mazzulla wouldn't play, may have been the difference-maker in this year's playoffs. JP is not an elite center, but he IMO is better than run of the mill, and like young Perk back in the day, could have held down that position for the more special players in the lineup.
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#386 » by zoyathedestroya » Wed Jul 5, 2023 8:20 pm

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I'm legit worried that if Al declines further, his defense might fall off too. I thought he was already having a hard time on switches last season. We have no one else to defend Embiid and Giannis as good as he can.
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#387 » by Parliament10 » Wed Jul 5, 2023 8:27 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
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I'm legit worried that if Al declines further, his defense might fall off too. I thought he was already having a hard time on switches last season. We have no one else to defend Embiid and Giannis as good as he can.

I think that he just has to come off the Bench, going forward. Keep him under 20 mins, and healthy.
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#388 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:59 am

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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#389 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:57 am

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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#390 » by _Und3r][D4wg_ » Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:21 am

Alford seemed to be at his best during the RS stretch that had him enjoying even non-B2B game-offs sporadically.
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#391 » by zoyathedestroya » Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:39 am

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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#392 » by zoyathedestroya » Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:00 am

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Then disappeared at the most inopportune time. He, Brogs, and the Jays were atrocious from 3 in the ECF.
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#393 » by zoyathedestroya » Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:44 am

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Decent chance Giannis, Doncic, and Jokic surpass him when it's all said and done.
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#394 » by Fencer reregistered » Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:01 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:
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Decent chance Giannis, Doncic, and Jokic surpass him when it's all said and done.


Under contracts already signed, Giannis will exceed Horford's career earnings within 2 years. And Jokic will do so within 3 years unless Al gets an unthinkable pay raise for the season he starts at age 39.
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#395 » by snowman » Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:56 am

Horford is the best defensive big man, against other big men, in the NBA today and has been for a while. If all he does is slow down the opposing big men we face, come off the bench and help lead the 2nd unit, he will earn his contract this season, even with taking all the back-to-backs off. It seemed like he missed a ton of 3's last season, but he still shot 44% for the season. His misses just come at a time that the focus was more evident, like in the playoffs. If he can continue to average 10 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists and a block per game as a big off the bench, I'll take that all day long. He will score his points against the other team's 2nd unit, and when his contract is over in 2 years, he will either become our big man coach or our version of Udonis Haslem.
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#396 » by Hal14 » Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:46 pm

snowman wrote:Horford is the best defensive big man, against other big men, in the NBA today and has been for a while. If all he does is slow down the opposing big men we face, come off the bench and help lead the 2nd unit, he will earn his contract this season, even with taking all the back-to-backs off. It seemed like he missed a ton of 3's last season, but he still shot 44% for the season. His misses just come at a time that the focus was more evident, like in the playoffs. If he can continue to average 10 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists and a block per game as a big off the bench, I'll take that all day long. He will score his points against the other team's 2nd unit, and when his contract is over in 2 years, he will either become our big man coach or our version of Udonis Haslem.

Agreed.

The other thing he does that is so valuable is the way he moves the ball on offense. He's very unselfish. Sure, he shoots a lot of 3's but he pretty much only takes good looks from 3 when he's open and it's in the flow of the offense. Other than that, he's very good at making very quick passes. So he'll get the ball and not hold onto it very long at all - really quickly moving it to a teammate, like a hot potato to keep the offense flowing.

And it's not just making a quick pass, but it's the combination of quick passes with making smart passes. You can make a quick pass but if you're passing it to Pritchard in the low post with Embiid defending him, it's a bad pass. Or if you make a quick pass but it's to the top of the key where Jimmy Butler is there to steal it - bad pass. Horford is good at making quick, smart passes. He's a good "connective passer".

The combination of connective passing + shooting + defensive versatility + leadership is a really solid combo. He's got great chemistry with our core players, on and off the court. Keep giving him 20-30 MPG as long as he can handle it.

I want this man to get a ring! :)
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#397 » by captain green » Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:08 pm

He slowed down big time in the playoffs last year but his drop off isn't as bad as one would think I think he has two good years left before the drop off is Blake Griffin level concern. One more decent big on this team would be ideal though
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#398 » by zoyathedestroya » Tue Sep 12, 2023 12:35 am

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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#399 » by Hal14 » Tue Sep 12, 2023 12:46 am

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LOVE the fact that Al is one of the first guys into the facility, getting in a workout with the staff.

He clearly wants that ring bad.

And great to see (but of course not surprised to see) that he's still in tip top shape.
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Re: Al Horford "Fountain of Youth" Thread 

Post#400 » by shackles10 » Tue Sep 12, 2023 6:27 pm

So nobody misses Sullinger, Sweetney, Toine, and Yabu waistline updates?

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