Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Payne Signed

[-Jragon-]

These days 'post' just isn't like it was 30 years ago either. You can't just dump it in and get like 5 seconds to work one on one. It rarely gets talked about in these modern vs older era discussions but the change of the D rules is drastic too. It's not just the chucking 3s alone that created the changes.

With Giannis' quickness and explosiveness, he deff wouldn't need 5 seconds to work in the post.

Giannis with effective post moves definitely wouldn't be your father's 1993 version of a post player.

That's what I'm saying. That's not how its done anymore. Learning what Hakeem could do while he had forever is useless to Giannis. It's about grab it and go dunk it now around the hoop, that's it.

I got roasted for saying Giannis should watch every Hakeem highlight and now he one upped me and all of you that said no (95%) are wrong. No more charges.. he will catch lower and snake around people for little flicks or do little shimmies and dunk straight on them

[theFireBlanket]

Idk if any player training with Hakeem has ever worked out like people hope. Giannis can already get plenty shots out of the post, he just has no touch in his jump shots or push shots (his finger roll type touch is otherworldly though) to capitalize on them.

With all that being said I’m glad he’s not giving up and still working on that aspect of his game. I’m sure he always has but hopefully we’ll see more of it in game instead of the pull ups he loves.

Giannis is wired differently. Every year he gets better. Every single year.

Hakeem has admired Giannis from afar. Giannis parents have no doubt esteemed Hakeem, as G alludes to in the 48 minutes Podcast.

If any ex-player might get through lessons to Giannis, it might as well be someone culturally connected to Charles & Veronica.

Question for Hellenic Bucks forum members: Did you see anything new from Giannis he may picked up from Papaloukas*, his workout mentor last summer?

[Fotis St]

Reading the comments about Giannis working out with Hakeem is going to help ... I say nah, its just Giannis casual off season PR statements.

Giannis owns the spin move which combined with his huge length/speed/finishing touch is already an unstoppable move.

Seems like nobody wants to be honest to Giannis calling him out on his flaws, especially in his current contract situation.

For example I would be super excited to see him in Serbia in Jokic Farm shooting some Free Throws together. Jokic in the all star game joked about Giannis shooting mechs and he even joked that he can teach him.

Jokic or Dirk or someone else Giannis ONLY REAL flaw is his Free Throws ... everything else is just PR bs.

[CharityStripe34]

Gianni doesn't need to be Hakeem or McHale in the post. To be fair, those guys had all-time elite footwork. Gianni's footwork is very mechanical and/or basic. But there's nothing wrong with having basic footwork for a simple hook-shot and turnaround. I think his touch will improve a bit if he simply relies more on those shots. His finger-roll with both hands is already really nice. Having a successful low or mid post-game comes down a lot to positioning well before you even touch the ball. The now-infamous Game 5 against Miami he actually did great just destroying both Bam and Love down-low and drew a ton of fouls, he just missed a lot of FTs at the worst time. His FT shooting needs by far and away the most work, as his form is still clunky.

[emunney]

Idk if any player training with Hakeem has ever worked out like people hope. Giannis can already get plenty shots out of the post, he just has no touch in his jump shots or push shots (his finger roll type touch is otherworldly though) to capitalize on them.

With all that being said I’m glad he’s not giving up and still working on that aspect of his game. I’m sure he always has but hopefully we’ll see more of it in game instead of the pull ups he loves.

Giannis is wired differently. Every year he gets better. Every single year.

Hakeem has admired Giannis from afar. Giannis parents have no doubt esteemed Hakeem, as G alludes to in the 48 minutes Podcast.

If any ex-player might get through lessons to Giannis, it might as well be someone culturally connected to Charles & Veronica.

Question for Hellenic Bucks forum members: Did you see anything new from Giannis he may picked up from Papaslouskas, his workout mentor last summer?

I'm not Greek but that Freak-Brook PnR smacked of Theo.

[Ron Swanson]

How close do we think our 2029 first and 2028 + 2030 swaps + Allen would get us to Quickley?

“He is going to want nine figures,” the executive told Heavy Sports. “And that’s for four years. I can’t say the Knicks will go that high but they might have to. He is not a guy you want to send to restricted free agency.”

https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-knicks/immanuel-quickley-contact-extension/

I get the love for Quickley but this is legit insane. That's like, one future first away from being what we gave up for Jrue. If Quickley doesn't develop into an All-Star/All-NBA guy then it's goodbye Giannis.

[raferfenix]

I get the love for Quickley but this is legit insane. That's like, one future first away from being what we gave up for Jrue. If Quickley doesn't develop into an All-Star/All-NBA guy then it's goodbye Giannis.

Agreed Quickley would have to be viewed as a long term top guy as Khris / Jrue / BroLo age out to be worth it. We’d have to give him a huge contract too.

To the point at hand I’m less thinking about whether we’d do it but whether it’s even a possibility with the Knicks. The news that an IQ extension might not be in the cards is a change but they could still prefer to trade him elsewhere if they think he’d be more helpful than our picks in a bigger deal sometime before the draft.

[theFireBlanket]

I'm not Greek but that Freak-Brook PnR smacked of Theo.

Almost made an "or familiar with *Papaloukas" addendum.

Knew he had to have taken something out of that. Whether or not its noticed.

[engelmartin]

Looks like Middleton is doing The Old Man and the Three this week, wonder what he lets slip on accident that we all can overreact to.

Going to guess he talks some trash about Bud.

Read on Twitter

[Badgerlander]

How close do we think our 2029 first and 2028 + 2030 swaps + Allen would get us to Quickley?

“He is going to want nine figures,” the executive told Heavy Sports. “And that’s for four years. I can’t say the Knicks will go that high but they might have to. He is not a guy you want to send to restricted free agency.”

https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-knicks/immanuel-quickley-contact-extension/

I get the love for Quickley but this is legit insane. That's like, one future first away from being what we gave up for Jrue. If Quickley doesn't develop into an All-Star/All-NBA guy then it's goodbye Giannis.

According to Synergysports.com, Quickley allows the third-fewest points per possession on spot-up attempts out of anyone who has guarded 200+ of these shot attempts at 0.87 points per possession (PPP). A large part of this has to do with how switch-heavy the Knicks’ defense is and how fast Quickley is on his feet.


These tools, alongside his overall defensive IQ (pun intended), allow him to move all over the floor defensively without much effort and help make him so valuable on that end.

Alongside this, Quickley has also allowed the 15th fewest points per possession from pick-and-roll ball handlers out of anyone who has guarded 200+ of these possessions with 0.82 PPP. This is because of, again, the speed and IQ that he brings to the floor. He reads pick and rolls better than anyone else on the Knicks and with how often the play is run, it’s a good trait to have.

https://dailyknicks.com/2023/03/26/knicks-immanuel-quickley-legit-case-nba-all-defensive-team/

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Read on Twitter

[GoldenAntlers]

Man, Giannis taking any nugget from Hakeem and applying it to his game is a bonus. Y'all tripping. I'm happy to see he isn't satisfied.

[Bodiroga13]

Idk if any player training with Hakeem has ever worked out like people hope. Giannis can already get plenty shots out of the post, he just has no touch in his jump shots or push shots (his finger roll type touch is otherworldly though) to capitalize on them.

With all that being said I’m glad he’s not giving up and still working on that aspect of his game. I’m sure he always has but hopefully we’ll see more of it in game instead of the pull ups he loves.

Giannis is wired differently. Every year he gets better. Every single year.

Hakeem has admired Giannis from afar. Giannis parents have no doubt esteemed Hakeem, as G alludes to in the 48 minutes Podcast.

If any ex-player might get through lessons to Giannis, it might as well be someone culturally connected to Charles & Veronica.

Question for Hellenic Bucks forum members: Did you see anything new from Giannis he may picked up from Papaslouskas, his workout mentor last summer?

You mean Papaloukas i guess, Papaloukas is a former player whereas Sloukas is still playing. About your question, no, i didn't see any "Papaloukas-esque" in Giannis last year. To be honest, i am not so sure his skills are teachable. Papaloukas had an unbelievable bbiq and he could pass really great. That's not something you can teach. Either you have it or don't. Of course you are getting better by exercising it.
Giannis is already a very good passer. Passing is a skill that he always had it. His court vision is elite for a 7 footer. Not just for a 7footer, i think his assist numbers are on a par with Van Fleet/CJ Maccoloum etc. I didn't knew that he worked with Papaloukas last summer. No need for that, he should work with a big like Hakeem, as he does this year. He can't be a better passer. He just needs to be a more eager passer. He must get better as a big/screener, and definitely learn how to post.

Probably most of these things are irrelevant with your question, but still, i just wanted to say them

[Ron Swanson]

How close do we think our 2029 first and 2028 + 2030 swaps + Allen would get us to Quickley?



https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-knicks/immanuel-quickley-contact-extension/

I get the love for Quickley but this is legit insane. That's like, one future first away from being what we gave up for Jrue. If Quickley doesn't develop into an All-Star/All-NBA guy then it's goodbye Giannis.

According to Synergysports.com, Quickley allows the third-fewest points per possession on spot-up attempts out of anyone who has guarded 200+ of these shot attempts at 0.87 points per possession (PPP). A large part of this has to do with how switch-heavy the Knicks’ defense is and how fast Quickley is on his feet.


These tools, alongside his overall defensive IQ (pun intended), allow him to move all over the floor defensively without much effort and help make him so valuable on that end.

Alongside this, Quickley has also allowed the 15th fewest points per possession from pick-and-roll ball handlers out of anyone who has guarded 200+ of these possessions with 0.82 PPP. This is because of, again, the speed and IQ that he brings to the floor. He reads pick and rolls better than anyone else on the Knicks and with how often the play is run, it’s a good trait to have.

https://dailyknicks.com/2023/03/26/knicks-immanuel-quickley-legit-case-nba-all-defensive-team/

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Read on Twitter

These are all nice stats and I remain a Quickley fan, but that doesn't really change what I said about the 3 future firsts/pick swaps being a massive overpay. That's the market going rate for an already established All-Star type dude, not someone who you hope can be that.

[theFireBlanket]

Question for Hellenic Bucks forum members: Did you see anything new from Giannis he may picked up from Papaslouskas, his workout mentor last summer?

You mean Papaloukas i guess, Papaloukas is a former player whereas Sloukas is still playing. About your question, no, i didn't see any "Papaloukas-esque" in Giannis last year. To be honest, i am not so sure his skills are teachable. Papaloukas had an unbelievable bbiq and he could pass really great. That's not something you can teach. Either you have it or don't. Of course you are getting better by exercising it.
Giannis is already a very good passer. . .

Yeah, as Emmuney alluded: Theo. I'd seen games with Slouskas & I guess mentally created this portmanteau adding the 's' in front of 'lou' & 'kas'.

Though I wasn't mixing the actual persons up.

Not irrelevant. I actually followed this a little closer last year & it's a reminder of why Theo must've been his favorite Greek player.

Maybe he was just getting more in touch with his own basketball roots, as a passer, who admired this guy from a distance.

I do mostly agree about just needing to become a more eager passer. And the need for adding to his posting/screening.

[CharityStripe34]

Nothing wrong with Freak trying to learn something from Dream. Even if it's literally a basic one-dribble pull-up flip shot or a basic-jump hook. Having two moves you can go to creates easy counters. Gianni's basic strength and agility aren't going to magically disappear. I'm certainly not expecting him to turn into Dream/McHale, but even an Al Jefferson type of game would be just fine, and save him from a few "bullrush" drives a game.

[Dick Tate]

Yeah no offense but I’m done dreaming that Giannis has any interest in developing a post game

He's just hanging out with Hakeem for ***** and giggles?

[Shaffty]

No Optimism allowed anymore i swear, you guys have all gotten way too pessimistic

[emunney]

I get the love for Quickley but this is legit insane. That's like, one future first away from being what we gave up for Jrue. If Quickley doesn't develop into an All-Star/All-NBA guy then it's goodbye Giannis.

According to Synergysports.com, Quickley allows the third-fewest points per possession on spot-up attempts out of anyone who has guarded 200+ of these shot attempts at 0.87 points per possession (PPP). A large part of this has to do with how switch-heavy the Knicks’ defense is and how fast Quickley is on his feet.


These tools, alongside his overall defensive IQ (pun intended), allow him to move all over the floor defensively without much effort and help make him so valuable on that end.

Alongside this, Quickley has also allowed the 15th fewest points per possession from pick-and-roll ball handlers out of anyone who has guarded 200+ of these possessions with 0.82 PPP. This is because of, again, the speed and IQ that he brings to the floor. He reads pick and rolls better than anyone else on the Knicks and with how often the play is run, it’s a good trait to have.

https://dailyknicks.com/2023/03/26/knicks-immanuel-quickley-legit-case-nba-all-defensive-team/

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

These are all nice stats and I remain a Quickley fan, but that doesn't really change what I said about the 3 future firsts/pick swaps being a massive overpay. That's the market going rate for an already established All-Star type dude, not someone who you hope can be that.

I agree that it's more than I would offer, but there has to be a distinction between picks and swaps. If we keep Giannis, the swaps are meaningless, just like in the Jrue trade. This is one pick and two swaps. Jrue was 3 picks and two swaps, plus better players.

Jrue, also, was by some [important, imo] measures, an all-star quality player, but hadn't actually made an all-star game in the better part of a decade. The price of an actual established all-star (not the warty kind like Kyrie) is the Donovan Mitchell package: 3 future picks, 2 swaps, just drafted 14th overall pick, two other young potential rotation players (one of which happened to immediately become an all-star, but that shouldn't be conflated with his trade value at the time).

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I agree that it's more than I would offer, but there has to be a distinction between picks and swaps. If we keep Giannis, the swaps are meaningless, just like in the Jrue trade. This is one pick and two swaps. Jrue was 3 picks and two swaps, plus better players.

Jrue, also, was by some [important, imo] measures, an all-star quality player, but hadn't actually made an all-star game in the better part of a decade. The price of an actual established all-star (not the warty kind like Kyrie) is the Donovan Mitchell package: 3 future picks, 2 swaps, just drafted 14th overall pick, two other young potential rotation players (one of which happened to immediately become an all-star, but that shouldn't be conflated with his trade value at the time).

agree... plus in order to improve and get younger in the process you have to gamble on upside. the team youre trading with will beat you in the trade if you remove upside from the equation

personally id do that trade

[paulpressey25]

Quickley doesn’t demand that type of trade package, or at least not from us. He’s got to prove it for a couple years. We’ve all seen too many one year wonder guys, who can’t sustain it, or it was related to just getting playing time a particular year.