Haynes: Damian Lillard Requests Trade

[docholliday99]

https://www.netsdaily.com/2023/9/15/23875869/new-speculation-about-damian-lillard-trade-and-recurring-need-for-a-third-team

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[Zeno]

Houston is probably an excellent candidate to be a 3rd team with the Porter Jr situation, their desire to be good this year and their Nets picks, swaps. Obviously Mpj would just get cut by the Blazers.

[DreamTeam09]

Houston is probably an excellent candidate to be a 3rd team with the Porter Jr situation, their desire to be good this year and their Nets picks, swaps. Obviously Mpj would just get cut by the Blazers.

No team is gonna wanna be even associated with KPJ name attached to them just for a pick. ~Bobby marks

I tend to agree actually

[ATLTimekeeper]

Houston is probably an excellent candidate to be a 3rd team with the Porter Jr situation, their desire to be good this year and their Nets picks, swaps. Obviously Mpj would just get cut by the Blazers.

No team is gonna wanna be even associated with KPJ name attached to them just for a pick. ~Bobby marks

I tend to agree actually

The other wrinkle is that his girlfriend is denying the reports, and MPJr's lawyers are attempting to get the charges dropped. So, not only might you end up with making that unsavoury trade but you might not get the cap clearance.

[Zeno]

Houston is probably an excellent candidate to be a 3rd team with the Porter Jr situation, their desire to be good this year and their Nets picks, swaps. Obviously Mpj would just get cut by the Blazers.

No team is gonna wanna be even associated with KPJ name attached to them just for a pick. ~Bobby marks

I tend to agree actually

The other wrinkle is that his girlfriend is denying the reports, and MPJr's lawyers are attempting to get the charges dropped. So, not only might you end up with making that unsavoury trade but you might not get the cap clearance.

Portland would be cutting him immediately and not doing it for cap savings this year. They would just be receiving the Nets draft capital via Houston instead of the vet players they don’t want in a rebuild as part of a Dame trade. I assume they would also get additional assets from the team that gets Dame. I don’t think there would be a pr hit if he’s waived immediately. If you sat with him on the roster waiting and hoping for savings that’s different for sure.

[JRoy]

Houston is probably an excellent candidate to be a 3rd team with the Porter Jr situation, their desire to be good this year and their Nets picks, swaps. Obviously Mpj would just get cut by the Blazers.

No team is gonna wanna be even associated with KPJ name attached to them just for a pick. ~Bobby marks

I tend to agree actually

I said it on the trade board and I’ll say it here;

Folks outside POR don’t understand how hyper sensitive POR fans are to any greasiness in Blazer players since the end of the jailblazer era.

Since that time POR has looked to draft choir boys.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Any market would react against trying to profit off domestic abuse.

[ciueli]

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

We can't trade for Damian Lillard because he makes too much money, the core we would want after the trade is Dame/OG/Pascal/Jak and that is going to cost a lot of money in luxury taxes even in the short term, to say nothing of the long term.

Year 1 (2023-24) we are likely a tax team straight away with that core of just four players making over $121M combined, even staying under the first apron upon completion of a Damian Lillard trade is not guaranteed as we are only about $1M under the tax as it stands and Portland will certainly want cost savings to be part of any Damian Lillard trade.

Year 2 (2024-25) we can pencil in large raises for Pascal Siakam and OG Anunoby, Pascal's normal maximum contract starts at $42.6M, if he makes an All-NBA team (more likely with a win now move like trading for Damian Lillard) his supermax jumps to $49.7M. OG will probably not get a max contract (crosses fingers) but is likely to get well north of $30M/year. Assuming OG doesn't get the max and Pascal doesn't get the supermax we are still at $170M or more for just 8 players (Lillard, Siakam, Anunoby, Poeltl, Schroder, Dick, McDaniels, Koloko), basically a tax team without keeping any free agents or adding any players. If Pascal gets the supermax and OG gets a normal max we are looking at a deep tax team, heading into the second tax apron just to field a top heavy squad with no decent bench players.

Year 3 (2025-26) is when it get really ugly, the luxury tax threshold jumps to $189M, but in the worst case scenario (Pascal supermax, OG max) we are spending $177M on four players (Lillard, Siakam, Anunoby, Poeltl). Worse, we have few mechanisms to improve the team, no access to the non-taxpayer MLE, no draft picks, few quality bench players to fill roles or trade for other players. The team being good is completely dependant on a 35 year old Damian Lillard and the health of OG Anunoby (he is not a player with a history of staying healthy).

All of this is dependant on MLSE deciding it's fine with spending heavily into the tax to support a team composed of players who have done nothing but fail over the past few seasons (unlikely), Damian Lillard being convinced to give up on Miami and accept being traded to Toronto (also unlikely), and Portland accepting a trade with an expiring Gary Trent Jr. and Scottie Barnes as the main selling points (not a given, in spite of the high opinion Raps fans have of Scottie). Long story short, we can forget about trading for Damian Lillard, it's not going to happen.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

We can't trade for Damian Lillard because he makes too much money, the core we would want after the trade is Dame/OG/Pascal/Jak and that is going to cost a lot of money in luxury taxes even in the short term, to say nothing of the long term.

Year 1 (2023-24) we are likely a tax team straight away with that core of just four players making over $121M combined, even staying under the first apron upon completion of a Damian Lillard trade is not guaranteed as we are only about $1M under the tax as it stands and Portland will certainly want cost savings to be part of any Damian Lillard trade.

Year 2 (2024-25) we can pencil in large raises for Pascal Siakam and OG Anunoby, Pascal's normal maximum contract starts at $42.6M, if he makes an All-NBA team (more likely with a win now move like trading for Damian Lillard) his supermax jumps to $49.7M. OG will probably not get a max contract (crosses fingers) but is likely to get well north of $30M/year. Assuming OG doesn't get the max and Pascal doesn't get the supermax we are still at $170M or more for just 8 players (Lillard, Siakam, Anunoby, Poeltl, Schroder, Dick, McDaniels, Koloko), basically a tax team without keeping any free agents or adding any players. If Pascal gets the supermax and OG gets a normal max we are looking at a deep tax team, heading into the second tax apron just to field a top heavy squad with no decent bench players.

Year 3 (2025-26) is when it get really ugly, the luxury tax threshold jumps to $189M, but in the worst case scenario (Pascal supermax, OG max) we are spending $177M on four players (Lillard, Siakam, Anunoby, Poeltl). Worse, we have few mechanisms to improve the team, no access to the non-taxpayer MLE, no draft picks, few quality bench players to fill roles or trade for other players. The team being good is completely dependant on a 35 year old Damian Lillard and the health of OG Anunoby (he is not a player with a history of staying healthy).

All of this is dependant on MLSE deciding it's fine with spending heavily into the tax to support a team composed of players who have done nothing but fail over the past few seasons (unlikely), Damian Lillard being convinced to give up on Miami and accept being traded to Toronto (also unlikely), and Portland accepting a trade with an expiring Gary Trent Jr. and Scottie Barnes as the main selling points (not a given, in spite of the high opinion Raps fans have of Scottie). Long story short, we can forget about trading for Damian Lillard, it's not going to happen.

lol why are you so worried about money and the lux tax? Its not your money.
And a championship team is supposed to be in the lux tax. i wouldn't bother following a team who would chose to not to go into the lux tax at the cost of a championship.

[ciueli]

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

We can't trade for Damian Lillard because he makes too much money, the core we would want after the trade is Dame/OG/Pascal/Jak and that is going to cost a lot of money in luxury taxes even in the short term, to say nothing of the long term.

Year 1 (2023-24) we are likely a tax team straight away with that core of just four players making over $121M combined, even staying under the first apron upon completion of a Damian Lillard trade is not guaranteed as we are only about $1M under the tax as it stands and Portland will certainly want cost savings to be part of any Damian Lillard trade.

Year 2 (2024-25) we can pencil in large raises for Pascal Siakam and OG Anunoby, Pascal's normal maximum contract starts at $42.6M, if he makes an All-NBA team (more likely with a win now move like trading for Damian Lillard) his supermax jumps to $49.7M. OG will probably not get a max contract (crosses fingers) but is likely to get well north of $30M/year. Assuming OG doesn't get the max and Pascal doesn't get the supermax we are still at $170M or more for just 8 players (Lillard, Siakam, Anunoby, Poeltl, Schroder, Dick, McDaniels, Koloko), basically a tax team without keeping any free agents or adding any players. If Pascal gets the supermax and OG gets a normal max we are looking at a deep tax team, heading into the second tax apron just to field a top heavy squad with no decent bench players.

Year 3 (2025-26) is when it get really ugly, the luxury tax threshold jumps to $189M, but in the worst case scenario (Pascal supermax, OG max) we are spending $177M on four players (Lillard, Siakam, Anunoby, Poeltl). Worse, we have few mechanisms to improve the team, no access to the non-taxpayer MLE, no draft picks, few quality bench players to fill roles or trade for other players. The team being good is completely dependant on a 35 year old Damian Lillard and the health of OG Anunoby (he is not a player with a history of staying healthy).

All of this is dependant on MLSE deciding it's fine with spending heavily into the tax to support a team composed of players who have done nothing but fail over the past few seasons (unlikely), Damian Lillard being convinced to give up on Miami and accept being traded to Toronto (also unlikely), and Portland accepting a trade with an expiring Gary Trent Jr. and Scottie Barnes as the main selling points (not a given, in spite of the high opinion Raps fans have of Scottie). Long story short, we can forget about trading for Damian Lillard, it's not going to happen.

lol why are you so worried about money and the lux tax? Its not your money.
And a championship team is supposed to be in the lux tax. i wouldn't bother following a team who would chose to not to go into the lux tax at the cost of a championship.

MLSE isn't going to want to pay for a deep tax team, it's really that simple. If we had a super rich owner who didn't care about making money like the Suns, Clippers, or Nets it would be different.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

We can't trade for Damian Lillard because he makes too much money, the core we would want after the trade is Dame/OG/Pascal/Jak and that is going to cost a lot of money in luxury taxes even in the short term, to say nothing of the long term.

Year 1 (2023-24) we are likely a tax team straight away with that core of just four players making over $121M combined, even staying under the first apron upon completion of a Damian Lillard trade is not guaranteed as we are only about $1M under the tax as it stands and Portland will certainly want cost savings to be part of any Damian Lillard trade.

Year 2 (2024-25) we can pencil in large raises for Pascal Siakam and OG Anunoby, Pascal's normal maximum contract starts at $42.6M, if he makes an All-NBA team (more likely with a win now move like trading for Damian Lillard) his supermax jumps to $49.7M. OG will probably not get a max contract (crosses fingers) but is likely to get well north of $30M/year. Assuming OG doesn't get the max and Pascal doesn't get the supermax we are still at $170M or more for just 8 players (Lillard, Siakam, Anunoby, Poeltl, Schroder, Dick, McDaniels, Koloko), basically a tax team without keeping any free agents or adding any players. If Pascal gets the supermax and OG gets a normal max we are looking at a deep tax team, heading into the second tax apron just to field a top heavy squad with no decent bench players.

Year 3 (2025-26) is when it get really ugly, the luxury tax threshold jumps to $189M, but in the worst case scenario (Pascal supermax, OG max) we are spending $177M on four players (Lillard, Siakam, Anunoby, Poeltl). Worse, we have few mechanisms to improve the team, no access to the non-taxpayer MLE, no draft picks, few quality bench players to fill roles or trade for other players. The team being good is completely dependant on a 35 year old Damian Lillard and the health of OG Anunoby (he is not a player with a history of staying healthy).

All of this is dependant on MLSE deciding it's fine with spending heavily into the tax to support a team composed of players who have done nothing but fail over the past few seasons (unlikely), Damian Lillard being convinced to give up on Miami and accept being traded to Toronto (also unlikely), and Portland accepting a trade with an expiring Gary Trent Jr. and Scottie Barnes as the main selling points (not a given, in spite of the high opinion Raps fans have of Scottie). Long story short, we can forget about trading for Damian Lillard, it's not going to happen.

lol why are you so worried about money and the lux tax? Its not your money.
And a championship team is supposed to be in the lux tax. i wouldn't bother following a team who would chose to not to go into the lux tax at the cost of a championship.

MLSE isn't going to want to pay for a deep tax team, it's really that simple. If we had a super rich owner who didn't care about making money like the Suns, Clippers, or Nets it would be different.

there is no point in following a team who doesn't do what it takes to win...even the pro-tankers will acknowledge this.

[Spida888]

We should only consider trading for Dame if Pascal is extended, and the framework going back is OG + prospects/picks. Going for Dame without Pascal extended or trading Barnes would be too risky. If Portland doesn't do that, which I can understand, that's fine.

[ciueli]

lol why are you so worried about money and the lux tax? Its not your money.
And a championship team is supposed to be in the lux tax. i wouldn't bother following a team who would chose to not to go into the lux tax at the cost of a championship.

MLSE isn't going to want to pay for a deep tax team, it's really that simple. If we had a super rich owner who didn't care about making money like the Suns, Clippers, or Nets it would be different.

there is no point in following a team who doesn't do what it takes to win...even the pro-tankers will acknowledge this.

We have an ownership more interested in making money than competing at all costs, just ask yourself how many seasons in this teams' history they have paid into the luxury tax to field a winner, I can tell you it's not very many in a league where the NBA champion is almost always a tax team.

You're also completely ignoring the other issues I mentioned with trading for Damian Lillard, namely that he doesn't want to come here, that we'd have to give up a lot to get him (probably enough to make it difficult to field a truly competitive team), and spending deep into the tax isn't just about saving money, it's also about no longer having access to the tools required to improve the team and legitimately have a chance to win a title over the next few seasons. It's not the kind of gamble MLSE will allow, certainly not for a guy who is in his mid-30s and hasn't been able to get his team into the playoffs the last two seasons.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

MLSE isn't going to want to pay for a deep tax team, it's really that simple. If we had a super rich owner who didn't care about making money like the Suns, Clippers, or Nets it would be different.

there is no point in following a team who doesn't do what it takes to win...even the pro-tankers will acknowledge this.

We have an ownership more interested in making money than competing at all costs, just ask yourself how many seasons in this teams' history they have paid into the luxury tax to field a winner, I can tell you it's not very many in a league where the NBA champion is almost always a tax team.

You're also completely ignoring the other issues I mentioned with trading for Damian Lillard, namely that he doesn't want to come here, that we'd have to give up a lot to get him (probably enough to make it difficult to field a truly competitive team), and spending deep into the tax isn't just about saving money, it's also about no longer having access to the tools required to improve the team and legitimately have a chance to win a title over the next few seasons. It's not the kind of gamble MLSE will allow, certainly not for a guy who is in his mid-30s and hasn't been able to get his team into the playoffs the last two seasons.

when we were contenders MLSE did go into the tax.
even if we win one championship out of those three years, the endeavour will have been worth it.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

We should only consider trading for Dame if Pascal is extended, and the framework going back is OG + prospects/picks. Going for Dame without Pascal extended or trading Barnes would be too risky. If Portland doesn't do that, which I can understand, that's fine.

agree with this; doesn't make a lot of sense to trade for dame when pascal might walk the next year. and yes trading OG will help manage the cap a bit better.

[ciueli]

We should only consider trading for Dame if Pascal is extended, and the framework going back is OG + prospects/picks. Going for Dame without Pascal extended or trading Barnes would be too risky. If Portland doesn't do that, which I can understand, that's fine.

There is no point in trading for Damain Lillard while simultaneously trading away OG Anunoby as he's one of the few players we have who fits well with both Lillard and Siakam (shooting Siakam doesn't have, defence Lillard doesn't have). The only trade that works for the Raptors is centred around Gary Trent Jr. and Barnes + filler + picks.

[Spates]

Is it really worthwhile to trade into two years of contention to be left with depleted assets and need for a complete rebuild.

Kawhi was a culmination of five years of progression. This would be jumping the gun.

[greekman]

considering the raptors were ready to trade og for scraps last season i'd say getting lillard for him is a deal you take. barnes is pushing it.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

We can't trade for Damian Lillard because he makes too much money, the core we would want after the trade is Dame/OG/Pascal/Jak and that is going to cost a lot of money in luxury taxes even in the short term, to say nothing of the long term.

Year 1 (2023-24) we are likely a tax team straight away with that core of just four players making over $121M combined, even staying under the first apron upon completion of a Damian Lillard trade is not guaranteed as we are only about $1M under the tax as it stands and Portland will certainly want cost savings to be part of any Damian Lillard trade.

Year 2 (2024-25) we can pencil in large raises for Pascal Siakam and OG Anunoby, Pascal's normal maximum contract starts at $42.6M, if he makes an All-NBA team (more likely with a win now move like trading for Damian Lillard) his supermax jumps to $49.7M. OG will probably not get a max contract (crosses fingers) but is likely to get well north of $30M/year. Assuming OG doesn't get the max and Pascal doesn't get the supermax we are still at $170M or more for just 8 players (Lillard, Siakam, Anunoby, Poeltl, Schroder, Dick, McDaniels, Koloko), basically a tax team without keeping any free agents or adding any players. If Pascal gets the supermax and OG gets a normal max we are looking at a deep tax team, heading into the second tax apron just to field a top heavy squad with no decent bench players.

Year 3 (2025-26) is when it get really ugly, the luxury tax threshold jumps to $189M, but in the worst case scenario (Pascal supermax, OG max) we are spending $177M on four players (Lillard, Siakam, Anunoby, Poeltl). Worse, we have few mechanisms to improve the team, no access to the non-taxpayer MLE, no draft picks, few quality bench players to fill roles or trade for other players. The team being good is completely dependant on a 35 year old Damian Lillard and the health of OG Anunoby (he is not a player with a history of staying healthy).

All of this is dependant on MLSE deciding it's fine with spending heavily into the tax to support a team composed of players who have done nothing but fail over the past few seasons (unlikely), Damian Lillard being convinced to give up on Miami and accept being traded to Toronto (also unlikely), and Portland accepting a trade with an expiring Gary Trent Jr. and Scottie Barnes as the main selling points (not a given, in spite of the high opinion Raps fans have of Scottie). Long story short, we can forget about trading for Damian Lillard, it's not going to happen.

lol why are you so worried about money and the lux tax? Its not your money.
And a championship team is supposed to be in the lux tax. i wouldn't bother following a team who would chose to not to go into the lux tax at the cost of a championship.

Don't you know, you are supposed to win a championship with 5 players on rookie scale contracts, after tanking for a decade.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Is it really worthwhile to trade into two years of contention to be left with depleted assets and need for a complete rebuild.

Kawhi was a culmination of five years of progression. This would be jumping the gun.

as opposed to what? two years of mediocrity and then completely rebuilding? raps are at a crossroad; muddling along with farfetched hopes of barnes turning into an all-star/superstar. if you have a chance you take it. sometimes it works out and sometimes it hasn't.
its not like dame is at the level hakeem was when we signed him back in the day. he had an all-nba season last year.
and finally, mid-market teams like ours have thinner margins of error. We have to be more aggressive and take more gambles to build a winner.