Dame requests a trade.

[tester551]

I don't think year 4 of Dame's deal will be net positive but similar to where CP3 is today. Remember
CP3 was still an all star level player at age 36 and I feel Dame will be an all-star level player in years
1-2 and possibly year 3 in his age 36 season.

I don't know if Miami could afford to send Martin if they are sending out Jovic/JJJ and don't think
Orlando Robinson would survive a waiver claim to get to Portland which is why I think the final piece
would be completed as a separate deal on December 15. Robinson is an unknown and likely not
going to matter but we know what Moses Brown is.

I'd like another pick that is not 5-7 years away. If Miami can finally trade Herro to a third team to
get a third pick, that would make the trade Dame/Nurk for Herro, Lowry, Jovic, JJJ And the picks
but finding a third team willing to take on that $120 Million extension has been problematical.

Why wouldnt Portland win the claim on Orlando if Miami waives him.
Priority is given based on record & there are only 4 teams that could 'steal' him.

I dont see Detroit, SA, or Charlotte having any interest. I doubt Houston would either, but that is at least a possibility

[Norm2953]

If teams think he can play, those teams ahead of Portland would put in a claim.

I'm not sure of the order of the waiving teams. Is that based on team records or the order
the teams drafted?

[Brandon-Clyde]

I think a lot of Blazer fans may be over-estimating Damian's trade value, with his age and contract. I think many teams consider Damian's year 3 and 4 to be net negatives.

I am not so sure. For one, that is the cost of doing business, top end talent is going to get top end salaries but getting as many of those guys together is how you win. Part of the reason Dame is available at all is because his contract is what it is but if you are a team looking for a final piece that is going to be the cost of doing business - the players with contracts you desire are not going to be available so expecting one or comparing who is available to who you wish was available is an exercise in futility.

Secondly, I think fans kind of under-estimate how much his contract actually changes relative to the salary cap. He is within the same few percentage points. People throw out big scary numbers that yeah would be shocking in this years salary cap but the cap goes up each year. His $45.6 million dollar contract this year is 33.55% of the salary cap, well his $63 million dollar contract in 26-27 that every freaks out about is projected to be 36.8% of the cap that year so it's actually not that much burdensome once you overcome sticker shock and take inflation into account.

Also guards are aging well recently, especially guards who can shoot and are crafty - two qualities that Damian definitely has. At that point in the mid 30's it really comes down to how badly a player wants it and how hard they are willing to work to stay in shape. I think Dame is not someone who is going to give up a moment earlier than he absolutely has to, meaning he is going to push himself well into his later 30's. I think barring an unfortunate injury that could happen to any player that people will generally be impressed with how Dame ages. He will lose something in his ability to attack the rim, to be honest that is already slipping a little bit for him. But he is a smart player and will for a long time remain an option that coaches trust to make decisions with the ball, that isn't going away just because he turns 35 or 36.

Obviously I am not saying he will totally be worth 63 million at that point in his career, but that I am not so sure teams see him as the huge negative that some folks around here seem to say.

To add to this- Miami will be sending salary out and I would say you can deduct that to get the true cost in salary. For example if they send Herro out the net cost in salary between him and Dame is only $16 million( and Miami will also be sending out. Other salary in year one at least so it would be even less). By the time that Dame and Herro reach the final years of their deals it grows to about $30 million but that is far less than the $60+ million Miami fans are complaining about.

[tester551]

If teams think he can play, those teams ahead of Portland would put in a claim.

I'm not sure of the order of the waiving teams. Is that based on team records or the order
the teams drafted?

I'm assuming in the offseason, they would use last season's records.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

If more than one team tries to claim a player on waivers, the team with the worst record gets him.

[GoBobs]

How would you all feel about a deal around Mark Williams, JT Thor, Gordan Hayward (expiring) a Hornets pick swap and an unprotected first?

[Norm2953]

Gee would love it

[Blazers98]

I don't think year 4 of Dame's deal will be net positive but similar to where CP3 is today. Remember
CP3 was still an all star level player at age 36 and I feel Dame will be an all-star level player in years
1-2 and possibly year 3 in his age 36 season.

I don't know if Miami could afford to send Martin if they are sending out Jovic/JJJ and don't think
Orlando Robinson would survive a waiver claim to get to Portland which is why I think the final piece
would be completed as a separate deal on December 15. Robinson is an unknown and likely not
going to matter but we know what Moses Brown is.

I'd like another pick that is not 5-7 years away. If Miami can finally trade Herro to a third team to
get a third pick, that would make the trade Dame/Nurk for Herro, Lowry, Jovic, JJJ And the picks
but finding a third team willing to take on that $120 Million extension has been problematical.

If Miami does this trade, it is to be in a position to win the championship for multiple years.
I would not want to send out Martin, he is too much of a piece of the win now team Miami would have.

[Butter]

Do we have ANY insider info about potential teams?

Nets, Sixers, Celtics???

[GEE]

How would you all feel about a deal around Mark Williams, JT Thor, Gordan Hayward (expiring) a Hornets pick swap and an unprotected first?

YES, Please. ( to Norm) But in all seriousness... I would love to add M. Williams as a long term addition to the 1 through 3 depth we currently have. A long term addition at the 4 or 5 is exactly what I personally hope to acquire via a Dame trade (more than draft picks), and the package you offer, would have me picking up the phone for sure. Hayward's expiring is another nice piece. If the Hornets added their 2024 1st unprotected, I'd be all for it. Hopefully your new owner wants to make a big splash and has made such an offer to Cronin. I'd prefer IT, over what Miami is offering.

[GEE]

Do we have ANY insider info about potential teams?

Nets, Sixers, Celtics???

Interesting question you ask Butter. Short answer... No one knows. Cronin has leaked absolutely nothing and he's working with WOJ, so it's a very tight ship... No leaks or "insider info" that I've heard.

Considering Chauncey and Lowry were seen together at the Buffs game, I have to believe Miami might be an almost done deal. A third team may likely be involved along with a Herro physical for that recently broken shooting hand of his, would be my guess.

Again guessing... but I hope we end up with something like this:

Miami trades: Lowry, Herro, JJJ, Jovic, Picks & Swaps
Portland trades: Dame & Nurkic
Brooklyn trades: Simmons, Sharpe & a Pick(s)

Miami gets: Dame & Nukic
Portland gets: Lowry, Simmons, Jovic, Sharpe, Picks & Swaps from both teams
Brooklyn gets: Herro & JJJ

Good but not great return is what I expect we get, but I really hope Cronin shocks all of us with something more in line with what I proposed we get from a Hornets trade and keep the Beast. NO CLUE, but I do expect Dame to be traded very soon, and well before camp begins.

[Walton1one]

What about Lillard to Philly, Philly sends Harden to HOU and HOU sends a 1st rounder and a young player (Amen Thompson?) and a 24’ unprotected 1st to POR, offloads KPJ in the deal as salary ballast (POR waives him) and POR gets a 25’ & 27’ for the favor. Philly also throws in a 29’ 1st and a player (Reed?, he would have to approve, if not him other filler + young player, Council?) to POR instead

Net result (could be minor filler added by any team as necessary)

POR out: Lillard
POR in: Thompson, Reed, Tate, KPJ, 29’ 1st via Philly, 24’ 1st via HOU & 25’/27’ 2nd via HOU

PHILLY in: Lillard
PHILLY out: Harden, Reed, 29’ 1st

HOU in: Harden
HOU out: Thompson, Tate, KPJ, 24’ 1st & 25’/27’ 2nd
** essentially Thompson & 1st for Harden, could add a pick from PHILLY going HOU way and/or minor player from POR.

PHILLY keeps window open, keeps Maxey, replaces malcontent Harden with Lillard, whom I suspect would be far less of a problem, even if it isn’t the destination of his choice

HOU accelerates their timeline, they have a lot of good young developing players (Smith Jr, Eason, Green, Thompson, Whitmore), curious, they spent a lot on 2 vets (Van Fleet, Brooks), adding Harden you suddenly have a legit playoff team with good mix of vets/youth, Harden also offsets loss of KPJ. Also, early on in the Harden saga weren’t there were rumors that he would like to go back to Houston?

Could be another player instead of Thompson (Eason?), however, Thompson has the right mix of enticing potential, needing time to develop & players in front of him (harden, green, van fleet that makes the most sense

[mighty_duck]

,
HOU in: Harden
HOU out: Thompson, Tate, KPJ, 24’ 1st & 25’/27’ 2nd
** essentially Thompson & 1st for Harden, could add a pick from PHILLY going HOU way and/or minor player from POR.

If there was any mutual interest, Houston could have signed Harden outright this past off-season instead of paying FVV. They wouldn't have had to give up any capital, let alone Amen and others.

I don't see this happening.

[Sinobas]

I think a lot of Blazer fans may be over-estimating Damian's trade value, with his age and contract. I think many teams consider Damian's year 3 and 4 to be net negatives.

I am not so sure. For one, that is the cost of doing business, top end talent is going to get top end salaries but getting as many of those guys together is how you win. Part of the reason Dame is available at all is because his contract is what it is but if you are a team looking for a final piece that is going to be the cost of doing business - the players with contracts you desire are not going to be available so expecting one or comparing who is available to who you wish was available is an exercise in futility.

Secondly, I think fans kind of under-estimate how much his contract actually changes relative to the salary cap. He is within the same few percentage points. People throw out big scary numbers that yeah would be shocking in this years salary cap but the cap goes up each year. His $45.6 million dollar contract this year is 33.55% of the salary cap, well his $63 million dollar contract in 26-27 that every freaks out about is projected to be 36.8% of the cap that year so it's actually not that much burdensome once you overcome sticker shock and take inflation into account.

Also guards are aging well recently, especially guards who can shoot and are crafty - two qualities that Damian definitely has. At that point in the mid 30's it really comes down to how badly a player wants it and how hard they are willing to work to stay in shape. I think Dame is not someone who is going to give up a moment earlier than he absolutely has to, meaning he is going to push himself well into his later 30's. I think barring an unfortunate injury that could happen to any player that people will generally be impressed with how Dame ages. He will lose something in his ability to attack the rim, to be honest that is already slipping a little bit for him. But he is a smart player and will for a long time remain an option that coaches trust to make decisions with the ball, that isn't going away just because he turns 35 or 36.

Obviously I am not saying he will totally be worth 63 million at that point in his career, but that I am not so sure teams see him as the huge negative that some folks around here seem to say.

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding (what teams offer for Damian), and so far that doesn't seem to have materialized.

[DusterBuster]

I think a lot of Blazer fans may be over-estimating Damian's trade value, with his age and contract. I think many teams consider Damian's year 3 and 4 to be net negatives.

I am not so sure. For one, that is the cost of doing business, top end talent is going to get top end salaries but getting as many of those guys together is how you win. Part of the reason Dame is available at all is because his contract is what it is but if you are a team looking for a final piece that is going to be the cost of doing business - the players with contracts you desire are not going to be available so expecting one or comparing who is available to who you wish was available is an exercise in futility.

Secondly, I think fans kind of under-estimate how much his contract actually changes relative to the salary cap. He is within the same few percentage points. People throw out big scary numbers that yeah would be shocking in this years salary cap but the cap goes up each year. His $45.6 million dollar contract this year is 33.55% of the salary cap, well his $63 million dollar contract in 26-27 that every freaks out about is projected to be 36.8% of the cap that year so it's actually not that much burdensome once you overcome sticker shock and take inflation into account.

Also guards are aging well recently, especially guards who can shoot and are crafty - two qualities that Damian definitely has. At that point in the mid 30's it really comes down to how badly a player wants it and how hard they are willing to work to stay in shape. I think Dame is not someone who is going to give up a moment earlier than he absolutely has to, meaning he is going to push himself well into his later 30's. I think barring an unfortunate injury that could happen to any player that people will generally be impressed with how Dame ages. He will lose something in his ability to attack the rim, to be honest that is already slipping a little bit for him. But he is a smart player and will for a long time remain an option that coaches trust to make decisions with the ball, that isn't going away just because he turns 35 or 36.

Obviously I am not saying he will totally be worth 63 million at that point in his career, but that I am not so sure teams see him as the huge negative that some folks around here seem to say.

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding (what teams offer for Damian), and so far that doesn't seem to have materialized.

Listen to Locked On Blazers Podcast with Bob Whitsitt. He goes into deep detail about his experience trading Clyde. Deals like this take a long time and don’t necessarily mean a player has no value. Also, teams and execs largely take late July through early September off as vacation, soooo yeah, the fact a deal hasn’t happened really has nothing to do with value.

[JRoy]

What about Lillard to Philly, Philly sends Harden to HOU and HOU sends a 1st rounder and a young player (Amen Thompson?) and a 24’ unprotected 1st to POR, offloads KPJ in the deal as salary ballast (POR waives him) and POR gets a 25’ & 27’ for the favor. Philly also throws in a 29’ 1st and a player (Reed?, he would have to approve, if not him other filler + young player, Council?) to POR instead

Net result (could be minor filler added by any team as necessary)

POR out: Lillard
POR in: Thompson, Reed, Tate, KPJ, 29’ 1st via Philly, 24’ 1st via HOU & 25’/27’ 2nd via HOU

PHILLY in: Lillard
PHILLY out: Harden, Reed, 29’ 1st

HOU in: Harden
HOU out: Thompson, Tate, KPJ, 24’ 1st & 25’/27’ 2nd
** essentially Thompson & 1st for Harden, could add a pick from PHILLY going HOU way and/or minor player from POR.

PHILLY keeps window open, keeps Maxey, replaces malcontent Harden with Lillard, whom I suspect would be far less of a problem, even if it isn’t the destination of his choice

HOU accelerates their timeline, they have a lot of good young developing players (Smith Jr, Eason, Green, Thompson, Whitmore), curious, they spent a lot on 2 vets (Van Fleet, Brooks), adding Harden you suddenly have a legit playoff team with good mix of vets/youth, Harden also offsets loss of KPJ. Also, early on in the Harden saga weren’t there were rumors that he would like to go back to Houston?

Could be another player instead of Thompson (Eason?), however, Thompson has the right mix of enticing potential, needing time to develop & players in front of him (harden, green, van fleet that makes the most sense

No way HOU sends out Amen for one more year of fat ass Harden.

[m0ng0]

Egads, i didn't know it's 4 hours, text below

https://www.youtube.com/live/aQxCbtoKQkE?si=1xu-LMha04WwQH4L

Damian Lillard was a recent guest on the BACKONFIGG show on YouTube. He talked about his life growing up in Oakland, his NBA career, his music career and, yes, his trade request from the Portland Trail Blazers. Lillard said sometimes a player and team reach a point where they no longer want the same things.

“It’s a way that you have to go about things where you can’t be an idiot. You say I’m gonna stay down, I’m gonna ride till the wheels fall off and all that stuff. I don’t have to prove that to nobody, like I’ve shown it. I mean that in my heart. But that’s like me and you saying no matter what happens we ain’t telling on each other. Ya know, I’m saying we never tell on each other. And then the day comes where I’m still playing by those same rules," Lillard said.

Like man, you want the same thing? We’re gonna go out together and then that ain’t the code you want to live by no more. So, when that happens, you can’t be how it was… You don’t want the same thing no more and you show me that you don’t want the same thing. We don’t want the same thing."

The Trail Blazers have media day on Monday, October 2, with training camp starting the next day. Lillard is expected to be in attendance, if he's not traded ahead of the start of the preseason.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I am not so sure. For one, that is the cost of doing business, top end talent is going to get top end salaries but getting as many of those guys together is how you win. Part of the reason Dame is available at all is because his contract is what it is but if you are a team looking for a final piece that is going to be the cost of doing business - the players with contracts you desire are not going to be available so expecting one or comparing who is available to who you wish was available is an exercise in futility.

Secondly, I think fans kind of under-estimate how much his contract actually changes relative to the salary cap. He is within the same few percentage points. People throw out big scary numbers that yeah would be shocking in this years salary cap but the cap goes up each year. His $45.6 million dollar contract this year is 33.55% of the salary cap, well his $63 million dollar contract in 26-27 that every freaks out about is projected to be 36.8% of the cap that year so it's actually not that much burdensome once you overcome sticker shock and take inflation into account.

Also guards are aging well recently, especially guards who can shoot and are crafty - two qualities that Damian definitely has. At that point in the mid 30's it really comes down to how badly a player wants it and how hard they are willing to work to stay in shape. I think Dame is not someone who is going to give up a moment earlier than he absolutely has to, meaning he is going to push himself well into his later 30's. I think barring an unfortunate injury that could happen to any player that people will generally be impressed with how Dame ages. He will lose something in his ability to attack the rim, to be honest that is already slipping a little bit for him. But he is a smart player and will for a long time remain an option that coaches trust to make decisions with the ball, that isn't going away just because he turns 35 or 36.

Obviously I am not saying he will totally be worth 63 million at that point in his career, but that I am not so sure teams see him as the huge negative that some folks around here seem to say.

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding (what teams offer for Damian), and so far that doesn't seem to have materialized.

Listen to Locked On Blazers Podcast with Bob Whitsitt. He goes into deep detail about his experience trading Clyde. Deals like this take a long time and don’t necessarily mean a player has no value. Also, teams and execs largely take late July through early September off as vacation, soooo yeah, the fact a deal hasn’t happened really has nothing to do with value.

I mean sure it *might* have to do with value but yeah, the fact that a deal isn't done yet isn't itself total proof that teams don't value Dame. His request was targeted at a specific time when teams aren't looking to make big trades and don't have the same flexibility they had during the draft and done in such a way so as to scare off other teams. If you wanted to try and steal Dame for the minimum price possible you might work with him to time his request, and in such a manner, very similar to what happened.

It would be like us going after a top 15 player at SF/PF/C to pair with Dame and saying their contract is too expensive and they are too old to send Simons and a couple picks. If you want good players you have to pay them, I don't know why that is a point of contention around here but good players always get paid top dollar and if you want one you just have to accept they will be getting a ton of money likely long after they are worth it. But the chance to pair another top player with Lillard for 2-3 years of solid runs at a championship is well worth that sort of expense.

[Brandon-Clyde]

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding (what teams offer for Damian), and so far that doesn't seem to have materialized.

Listen to Locked On Blazers Podcast with Bob Whitsitt. He goes into deep detail about his experience trading Clyde. Deals like this take a long time and don’t necessarily mean a player has no value. Also, teams and execs largely take late July through early September off as vacation, soooo yeah, the fact a deal hasn’t happened really has nothing to do with value.

I mean sure it *might* have to do with value but yeah, the fact that a deal isn't done yet isn't itself total proof that teams don't value Dame. His request was targeted at a specific time when teams aren't looking to make big trades and don't have the same flexibility they had during the draft and done in such a way so as to scare off other teams. If you wanted to try and steal Dame for the minimum price possible you might work with him to time his request, and in such a manner, very similar to what happened.

It would be like us going after a top 15 player at SF/PF/C to pair with Dame and saying their contract is too expensive and they are too old to send Simons and a couple picks. If you want good players you have to pay them, I don't know why that is a point of contention around here but good players always get paid top dollar and if you want one you just have to accept they will be getting a ton of money likely long after they are worth it. But the chance to pair another top player with Lillard for 2-3 years of solid runs at a championship is well worth that sort of expense.

And I would once again add that Miami will be sending out salary in any Dame trade so it won't be as if they are just adding Dame's salary and taking a hit for the full amount. If Herro is part of the deal ( whether to Portland or a third team) that is basically $30 million per year for the next 4 years that Miami isn't paying. And depending on salary matching Miami will be getting out of other contracts as well.

[zzaj]

What about Lillard to Philly, Philly sends Harden to HOU and HOU sends a 1st rounder and a young player (Amen Thompson?) and a 24’ unprotected 1st to POR, offloads KPJ in the deal as salary ballast (POR waives him) and POR gets a 25’ & 27’ for the favor. Philly also throws in a 29’ 1st and a player (Reed?, he would have to approve, if not him other filler + young player, Council?) to POR instead

Net result (could be minor filler added by any team as necessary)

POR out: Lillard
POR in: Thompson, Reed, Tate, KPJ, 29’ 1st via Philly, 24’ 1st via HOU & 25’/27’ 2nd via HOU

PHILLY in: Lillard
PHILLY out: Harden, Reed, 29’ 1st

HOU in: Harden
HOU out: Thompson, Tate, KPJ, 24’ 1st & 25’/27’ 2nd
** essentially Thompson & 1st for Harden, could add a pick from PHILLY going HOU way and/or minor player from POR.

PHILLY keeps window open, keeps Maxey, replaces malcontent Harden with Lillard, whom I suspect would be far less of a problem, even if it isn’t the destination of his choice

HOU accelerates their timeline, they have a lot of good young developing players (Smith Jr, Eason, Green, Thompson, Whitmore), curious, they spent a lot on 2 vets (Van Fleet, Brooks), adding Harden you suddenly have a legit playoff team with good mix of vets/youth, Harden also offsets loss of KPJ. Also, early on in the Harden saga weren’t there were rumors that he would like to go back to Houston?

Could be another player instead of Thompson (Eason?), however, Thompson has the right mix of enticing potential, needing time to develop & players in front of him (harden, green, van fleet that makes the most sense

This is DOA, but if the Blazers could figure out a way to pry Thompson out of Houston's hands that would be a no brainer. HOU isn't that dumb, though...

[zzaj]

I am not so sure. For one, that is the cost of doing business, top end talent is going to get top end salaries but getting as many of those guys together is how you win. Part of the reason Dame is available at all is because his contract is what it is but if you are a team looking for a final piece that is going to be the cost of doing business - the players with contracts you desire are not going to be available so expecting one or comparing who is available to who you wish was available is an exercise in futility.

Secondly, I think fans kind of under-estimate how much his contract actually changes relative to the salary cap. He is within the same few percentage points. People throw out big scary numbers that yeah would be shocking in this years salary cap but the cap goes up each year. His $45.6 million dollar contract this year is 33.55% of the salary cap, well his $63 million dollar contract in 26-27 that every freaks out about is projected to be 36.8% of the cap that year so it's actually not that much burdensome once you overcome sticker shock and take inflation into account.

Also guards are aging well recently, especially guards who can shoot and are crafty - two qualities that Damian definitely has. At that point in the mid 30's it really comes down to how badly a player wants it and how hard they are willing to work to stay in shape. I think Dame is not someone who is going to give up a moment earlier than he absolutely has to, meaning he is going to push himself well into his later 30's. I think barring an unfortunate injury that could happen to any player that people will generally be impressed with how Dame ages. He will lose something in his ability to attack the rim, to be honest that is already slipping a little bit for him. But he is a smart player and will for a long time remain an option that coaches trust to make decisions with the ball, that isn't going away just because he turns 35 or 36.

Obviously I am not saying he will totally be worth 63 million at that point in his career, but that I am not so sure teams see him as the huge negative that some folks around here seem to say.

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding (what teams offer for Damian), and so far that doesn't seem to have materialized.

Listen to Locked On Blazers Podcast with Bob Whitsitt. He goes into deep detail about his experience trading Clyde. Deals like this take a long time and don’t necessarily mean a player has no value. Also, teams and execs largely take late July through early September off as vacation, soooo yeah, the fact a deal hasn’t happened really has nothing to do with value.

Haven't listened (not sure I will), but every time I hear a GM talk at length I get reminded of the massive gulf that exists between what actual GMs do and how they think versus what fans think GMs do and how they think.

The idea that GMs wouldn't want Lillard because of age or contract is ridiculous, IMHO.