Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Payne Signed

theFireBlanket · Post #641 » by **theFireBlanket** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:05 am

What if Giannis & Dame concocted this "Only Miami" narrative together? So Pat Riley would lowball & piss off Portland.

Then Horst steps in with legit offers, diplomatic conversation & consideration.

Badgerlander · Post #642 » by **Badgerlander** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:21 am

Shaffty wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
fansinceforever wrote:
Not in the playoffs it's not.
I think they would really miss Jrues D against certain matchups in the playoffs. Especially if your switching it out for Dames non existent O.

But Jrues O has been a problem and I think the Bucks could cover Dames D to some degree.

Sent from my SM-F731U using RealGM mobile app

yeah his defense against jimmy butler and jayson tatum really helped out

Now just imagine if it was Cam Payne instead of Jrue, those guys would have averaged 80+ ppgz

JayMKE · Post #643 » by **JayMKE** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:59 pm

Bucks would need additional roster tweaks if they made a trade like that IMO, hard to believe Miami is playing hardball so much that the Bucks beat out their offer.

Jrue's performance drops off too much in the playoffs, he's always been bad on offense but getting humiliated by Jimmy Butler is hard to come back from. His game fell apart like Eric Bledsoe whereas before he was sort of clutch, I never was a huge fan of getting a guy with almost all the same weaknesses. Could the Bucks find another guard that can defend for cheap? Last year lot of people wanted Pat Beverley but he's gotten signed, IDK whats available off the scrap heap since I assume there isn't going to be much left after to plug the holes.

Badgerlander · Post #644 » by **Badgerlander** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:11 pm

Jrue’s offense was bad last year because Khris+Giannis weren’t healthy enough to destroy running PnR. Defending Butler should fall on PJ Tucker but we chose not to resign him so it was up to Jae but we chose offense over defense (or Jae was garbage, whichever).

I think acquiring Dame is going to take trading Jrue for picks and Bobby for picks along with giving Portland a few guys like MarJon, Jackson, or Singleton, plus all of our own picks at our disposal. I’m not sure that we can cobble a championship defense together with Dame, Beasley, Khris, Giannis, Brook, and Jae.

Ron Swanson · Post #645 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:32 pm

I mean, the whole point of trading for a guy like Dame would be that you maximize your offensive potential (I still think people are underselling how much of a cheat code the Dame/Giannis pick-and-roll offense would be) while not foisting so much usage on Giannis, thus allowing him to expend more energy on defense and just flat out wreck teams as a roamer ala 2018-2020. I don't think it's a coincidence that the two seasons he's led the league in usage were our two worst team offenses in the Bud era (8th and 12th). People talk about "getting younger" to possibly extend our championship window with Giannis, but to me the bigger thing is just making his life easier and not forcing him to literally do everything for us (scoring, playmaking, defense) while reducing wear & tear.

It's a no-brainer even if you have to gut your rotation. Will probably affect our regular season ceiling but whatever. We see that depth is overrated every playoffs when most teams realize there's no point in playing anything but your 5-6 best guys. Gimme Dame/Giannis/Middleton/Brook/Pat and whatever minimum guys you have left (Crowder/Beasley/RoLo) and you should be able to figure it out.

raferfenix · Post #646 » by **raferfenix** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:34 pm

Jrue was an All-Star last year.

Yes Jimmy cooked him and Holiday has a history of brain farts in the playoffs when he’s asked to do too much offensively.

But if Jrue wants to maximize dollars on his next contract I could see a variety of teams looking to level up seriously valuing him.

Alternatively if he only wants to go to contenders or if he doesn’t want a long term contract that impacts his value. However looking at the crazy deals being thrown around I could see him being cool with a last near-max deal.

German Athens · Post #647 » by **German Athens** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:59 pm

Yeah, a dame-Giannis pairing would be such a mutually beneficial tandem. Honestly, I can’t think of a superstar pairing in recent memory that’s as good as that one. I think the returns would be massive.

Like, other teams just utterly can’t defend it massive.

Then you’d still have Khris as a third option which given his skillset and unselfishness is also a wonderful match.

Find a kcp level defensive wing, and I think you’d just completely wreck teams.

Ron Swanson · Post #648 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:02 pm

I think if Toronto puts Barnes on the table, then that's the offer to beat, but I'm not convinced that Masai doesn't still overvalue the **** out of him. So **** it, let's agree to help Toronto construct a dark-horse contender if they agree to facilitate a 3-way Dame trade:

MKE Out: Jrue, Grayson, Marjon, 2028 pick swap, 2029 unprotected 1st, 2030 pick swap, 2024 POR 2nd
MKE In: Dame

TOR Out: Gary Trent Jr., Thad Young, Gradey Dick, 2027 Top-4 protected-1st
TOR In: Jrue

POR Out: Dame
POR In: GTJ, Grayson, Gradey Dick, Marjon, Thad Young (waived/bought out), 2027 TOR 1st, 2029 MIL 1st, 2028 & 2030 pick swaps, their 2024 2nd-rounder returned

We get Dame, Raptors get their veteran All-Star PG without sacrificing any of their main core, and Portland gets multiple firsts, pick swaps, and some young upside wings to compliment the Scoot/Sharpe backcourt and fit seamlessly with their timeline (as well as taking on zero future salary).

- Sign Cam Payne for the minimum and keep one roster spot open for buyout opportunities

Dame/Payne
Pat/Beasley/Green
Middleton/Andre/Livingston
Giannis/Crowder/Thanasis
BroLo/Bobby/RoLo

Then just sit back and enjoy watching that team annihilate the rest of the league.

SirChurros · Post #649 » by **SirChurros** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:05 pm

Jrue in any Dame trade is a no brainer, to me. For as great as he can be on defense, he disappears way too much on offense to be a bonafide third.

JayMKE · Post #650 » by **JayMKE** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:11 pm

Jrue is bad on offense because he's a streaky shooter with sloppy handles and low BBIQ on that side of the ball. Not really a PG and not really a 2nd or 3rd option.

crowhead76 · Post #651 » by **crowhead76** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:54 pm

Badgerlander wrote:Jrue’s offense was bad last year because Khris+Giannis weren’t healthy enough to destroy running PnR. Defending Butler should fall on PJ Tucker but we chose not to resign him so it was up to Jae but we chose offense over defense (or Jae was garbage, whichever).

I think acquiring Dame is going to take trading Jrue for picks and Bobby for picks along with giving Portland a few guys like MarJon, Jackson, or Singleton, plus all of our own picks at our disposal. I’m not sure that we can cobble a championship defense together with Dame, Beasley, Khris, Giannis, Brook, and Jae.

Completely agree with this.

Badgerlander · Post #652 » by **Badgerlander** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:57 pm

crowhead76 wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:Jrue’s offense was bad last year because Khris+Giannis weren’t healthy enough to destroy running PnR. Defending Butler should fall on PJ Tucker but we chose not to resign him so it was up to Jae but we chose offense over defense (or Jae was garbage, whichever).

I think acquiring Dame is going to take trading Jrue for picks and Bobby for picks along with giving Portland a few guys like MarJon, Jackson, or Singleton, plus all of our own picks at our disposal. I’m not sure that we can cobble a championship defense together with Dame, Beasley, Khris, Giannis, Brook, and Jae.

Completely agree with this.

All that said though, should still go for it

emunney · Post #653 » by **emunney** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:59 pm

Can't move Dre in a Dame deal. He's the perfect backcourt complement.

PG Graveyard · Post #654 » by **PG Graveyard** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:07 pm

I’m apprehensive about the cost and potential upgrade of Dame over Jrue plus assets but I’m all for a big trade. That’s fun and what this is all about. Make it happen Horsty. I would assume that would make the ultimate winner happy

theFireBlanket · Post #655 » by **theFireBlanket** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:17 pm

Jrue says he's retiring early, you easily move him for Dame. Secures Giannis long term, if he wants it.

Post #656 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:19 pm

emunney wrote:Can't move Dre in a Dame deal. He's the perfect backcourt complement.

I hope you're right. He didn't look playable in SL.

engelmartin · Post #657 » by **engelmartin** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:32 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
emunney wrote:Can't move Dre in a Dame deal. He's the perfect backcourt complement.

I hope you're right. He didn't look playable in SL.

Summer league is always such a mess. If he had been able to make those long outlet passes to anyone but Tacko Fall he probably would have had a few more assists. I'm willing to reserve judgment for now.

raferfenix · Post #658 » by **raferfenix** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:48 pm

I think if we get Dame that buys us more time with Giannis.

If he signs even a short term extension then we'll be able to recoup firsts we can put into a package deal a few seasons from now too.

raferfenix · Post #659 » by **raferfenix** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:54 pm

emunney wrote:Can't move Dre in a Dame deal. He's the perfect backcourt complement.

If MarJon is ready for real minutes this season he could be a hell of a fit too.

I wonder if Bobby would make his way into the deal before these guys. He'd have significantly more value as well.

emunney · Post #660 » by **emunney** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:55 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
emunney wrote:Can't move Dre in a Dame deal. He's the perfect backcourt complement.

I hope you're right. He didn't look playable in SL.

Don't worry, I'm right.