Markelle Fultz

[pepe1991]

i guess nobody will tell you that Markelle Fultz shot 0-9 for 3 in 4th quaters for whole season?


Fultz, in 4th quaters was also just 11th by net rating among Magic players.
Reason for it is probably very poor defensive rating, given him and Cole had same offensive rating.

His TS% was high, but again, it's not that uncommon once we established fact he took 119 shots total, and 110 out of 119 were 2FGM who by default have bigger chance of going in.

He did raw 1,1 FTA in 4th quater, witch begs question why he can't sustain that numbers through 1-3 quaters, given he only draws 2,4 FTA ( 1 shooting foul per game) total.




In general there is nothing that would suggest Fultz is any better than Cole.

[Audi]

In general there is nothing that would suggest Fultz is any better than Cole.

In general there is nothing that would suggest comparing a starting point guard to one coming off the bench will produce the results to reach such a conclusion.

[JoshuaPotter]

In general there is nothing that would suggest Fultz is any better than Cole.

In general there is nothing that would suggest comparing a starting point guard to one coming off the bench will produce the results to reach such a conclusion.

In general we have 4 starting point guards with roughly the same floor at the moment with varying amounts of peak....

[Audi]

In general there is nothing that would suggest Fultz is any better than Cole.

In general there is nothing that would suggest comparing a starting point guard to one coming off the bench will produce the results to reach such a conclusion.

In general we have 4 starting point guards with roughly the same floor at the moment with varying amounts of peak....

And how many of those 4 player's statistics are heavily influenced by actually playing the position in starting lineups against starting opposition?

[JoshuaPotter]

In general there is nothing that would suggest comparing a starting point guard to one coming off the bench will produce the results to reach such a conclusion.

In general we have 4 starting point guards with roughly the same floor at the moment with varying amounts of peak....

And how many of those 4 player's statistics are heavily influenced by actually playing the position in starting lineups against starting opposition?

About the same amount of those 4 players who actually played on a team worth a darn.

[pepe1991]

In general there is nothing that would suggest Fultz is any better than Cole.

In general there is nothing that would suggest comparing a starting point guard to one coming off the bench will produce the results to reach such a conclusion.

But it's totally fair to compare 6th to 3rd year player, if it fits narrative?

[Audi]

In general there is nothing that would suggest Fultz is any better than Cole.

In general there is nothing that would suggest comparing a starting point guard to one coming off the bench will produce the results to reach such a conclusion.

But it's totally fair to compare 6th to 3rd year player, if it fits narrative?

Who's doing that exactly?

[pepe1991]

In general there is nothing that would suggest comparing a starting point guard to one coming off the bench will produce the results to reach such a conclusion.

But it's totally fair to compare 6th to 3rd year player, if it fits narrative?

Who's doing that exactly?

Cole as starter, as sophmore (albet on crappy team)
averaged more points than Fultz ever did
averaged same amount of assists as Fultz in best year
had efficiency that is in line with Fultz career numbers

Next year (last year) he isn't starter, but only averaged 1 ppg and and 1,6 apg less on 4 mpg less , lower turnovers and better efficiency.

When you put things in perspective, why would anybody think that Fultz has another gear ( entering year 7) and in same time sleep on notion that player after 3rd year can't improve to the point where he surpasses Fultz?

Do i belive Cole is nba starting PG ? Not really. But neither do i belive Fultz is one. The thing is, those two are way more similar in terms of impact and productivity than people want to admit. But one is viewed as "backup PG " at age of 23, but in eyes of his fans, Fultz will unlock some untapped potential, while being 2 yeras older? That doesn't really makes sense.

[Audi]

Cole as starter, as sophmore (albet on crappy team)
averaged more points than Fultz ever did
averaged same amount of assists as Fultz in best year
had efficiency that is in line with Fultz career numbers

This is why context is everything. Was Cole playing next to #1 draft pick ROY at the time? That season he was operating on 25.1% usage averaging 14 fga. Fultz last season was at 21.3% usg averaging 11 fga. Only so much ball to go around. It makes perfect sense that Cole would 'average more points than Fultz ever did' within that context.

Next year (last year) he isn't starter, but only averaged 1 ppg and and 1,6 apg less on 4 mpg less , lower turnovers and better efficiency.

Great! I would fully expect a starter moving to a bench role to show similar improvement against second unit competition.

When you put things in perspective, why would anybody think that Fultz has another gear ( entering year 7) and in same time sleep on notion that player after 3rd year can't improve to the point where he surpasses Fultz?

Who is saying that Fultz has another gear but Cole does not? I expect both of these guys to continue growing their games.

[BlueBalls]

I wish the ignore function worked for quoted posts. Some crap I just don’t wanna read.

[RichCollab]

i guess nobody will tell you that Markelle Fultz shot 0-9 for 3 in 4th quaters for whole season?


Fultz, in 4th quaters was also just 11th by net rating among Magic players.
Reason for it is probably very poor defensive rating, given him and Cole had same offensive rating.

His TS% was high, but again, it's not that uncommon once we established fact he took 119 shots total, and 110 out of 119 were 2FGM who by default have bigger chance of going in.

He did raw 1,1 FTA in 4th quater, witch begs question why he can't sustain that numbers through 1-3 quaters, given he only draws 2,4 FTA ( 1 shooting foul per game) total.




In general there is nothing that would suggest Fultz is any better than Cole.

The team’s presence on the floor and confidence is much higher when Fultz is PG compared to Cole.

3pt shots wasn’t Fultz game for better or worse. Ok, Fultz didn’t add anything from the 3pt line.

The hype and the hate are way out of wack.

[RichCollab]

Cole overtly projects leadership. The guys love and respect him but it’s obvious the team actually responds to Fultz as a key leader.

[Skybox]

In general there is nothing that would suggest comparing a starting point guard to one coming off the bench will produce the results to reach such a conclusion.

In general we have 4 starting point guards with roughly the same floor at the moment with varying amounts of peak....

And how many of those 4 player's statistics are heavily influenced by actually playing the position in starting lineups against starting opposition?

Double-edged sword...the bench player (at our weakest position) was also trying to get assists from guys who couldn't finish at a level close to the starters.

[Skybox]

I wish the ignore function worked for quoted posts. Some crap I just don’t wanna read.

so feel free to skip it...I'm seeing a whole lot of information suggesting Fultz isn't that great a fit and, typically, a whole lot of hazy defenses about "what a great leader he is" and "he's effectively entering his second season" and "he's doing what he's asked" and "he promised to shoot 3's next year and he can make them" and "the HATE(?) is out of control".

It's our weakest, most damaging starting spot and we are on (both) the launch pad to relevance and the clock on hefty rookie extensions coming fast...it's kind of a topic worth discussing...but you don't have to.

[Audi]

I wish the ignore function worked for quoted posts. Some crap I just don’t wanna read.

so feel free to skip it...I'm seeing a whole lot of information suggesting Fultz isn't that great a fit and, typically, a whole lot of hazy defenses about "what a great leader he is" and "he's effectively entering his second season" and "he's doing what he's asked" and "he promised to shoot 3's next year and he can make them" and "the HATE(?) is out of control".

It's our weakest, most damaging starting spot and we are on (both) the launch pad to relevance and the clock on hefty rookie extensions coming fast...it's kind of a topic worth discussing...but you don't have to.

I agree it's a topic worth discussing, but what evidence are you using that shows starting PG is 'damaging' the line up? I understand spacing making Fultz a questionable fit next to Paolo/Franz if they don't become improved shooters, but so far all the evidence of it having a detrimental impact has been theoretical - ie - "it will hurt us come the playoffs".

[CLosP]

i guess nobody will tell you that Markelle Fultz shot 0-9 for 3 in 4th quaters for whole season?


Fultz, in 4th quaters was also just 11th by net rating among Magic players.
Reason for it is probably very poor defensive rating, given him and Cole had same offensive rating.

His TS% was high, but again, it's not that uncommon once we established fact he took 119 shots total, and 110 out of 119 were 2FGM who by default have bigger chance of going in.

He did raw 1,1 FTA in 4th quater, witch begs question why he can't sustain that numbers through 1-3 quaters, given he only draws 2,4 FTA ( 1 shooting foul per game) total.




In general there is nothing that would suggest Fultz is any better than Cole.

The team’s presence on the floor and confidence is much higher when Fultz is PG compared to Cole.

3pt shots wasn’t Fultz game for better or worse. Ok, Fultz didn’t add anything from the 3pt line.

The hype and the hate are way out of wack.

Much higher? Lol come on there’s no way to determine that. Cole is a better shooter so I’m sure players’ ‘confidence’ would be higher passing someone who is most likely going to hit an open outside shot.

[sChOlaRlY_Magi]

I wish the ignore function worked for quoted posts. Some crap I just don’t wanna read.

This is the biggest flaw with the ignore button, imo.

[VFX]

I wish the ignore function worked for quoted posts. Some crap I just don’t wanna read.

so feel free to skip it...I'm seeing a whole lot of information suggesting Fultz isn't that great a fit and, typically, a whole lot of hazy defenses about "what a great leader he is" and "he's effectively entering his second season" and "he's doing what he's asked" and "he promised to shoot 3's next year and he can make them" and "the HATE(?) is out of control".

It's our weakest, most damaging starting spot and we are on (both) the launch pad to relevance and the clock on hefty rookie extensions coming fast...it's kind of a topic worth discussing...but you don't have to.

Why are people averse to others voicing opinions on a message board? This isn’t Reddit.

It’s not like there isn’t warranted skepticism on this topic. People will undoubtedly be bitching about salary cap space in 3 seasons.

[Skybox]

I wish the ignore function worked for quoted posts. Some crap I just don’t wanna read.

so feel free to skip it...I'm seeing a whole lot of information suggesting Fultz isn't that great a fit and, typically, a whole lot of hazy defenses about "what a great leader he is" and "he's effectively entering his second season" and "he's doing what he's asked" and "he promised to shoot 3's next year and he can make them" and "the HATE(?) is out of control".

It's our weakest, most damaging starting spot and we are on (both) the launch pad to relevance and the clock on hefty rookie extensions coming fast...it's kind of a topic worth discussing...but you don't have to.

I agree it's a topic worth discussing, but what evidence are you using that shows starting PG is 'damaging' the line up? I understand spacing making Fultz a questionable fit next to Paolo/Franz if they don't become improved shooters, but so far all the evidence of it having a detrimental impact has been theoretical - ie - "it will hurt us come the playoffs".

I'm not quoting from any specific remote advanced stat...I'm talking about obvious priorities in modern basketball and obvious complementary traits. I DO think Fultz has real talent but you can't have more than a couple of guys on the floor with that specific talent, unless they have other talents to allow them to 'take turns' and contribute off-ball. Fultz has ZERO off-ball value, IMO. I would say the same about a couple of future HOFers...Scoot and Ja. Looking at our roster, something's got to give...and no sane person would suggest that Paolo or Franz should give their on-ball time to Fultz and relegate themselves to spotting up for sickouts on the perimeter.

Just because the glaring conflicts aren't at the same conventional position doesn't make them less problematic. If Ja or Scoot or even a tinier but far more efficient non-shooting PG like Tyus Jones, for example, were on ORL, there would be NO conversation about who's the PG...Fultz would be out of luck and out of town.

I'm as tired of reading and writing the same stuff for months, but it is what it is. When I don't want to read it - I won't...and I won't feel the need to regularly post that, "Hey everyone, I'm not reading it"

I guess if numbers are demanded, it would be our record (with two guys approaching All-Star status) and the salary cap.

[Audi]

I'm not quoting from any specific remote advanced stat...I'm talking about obvious priorities in modern basketball and obvious complementary traits. I DO think Fultz has real talent but you can't have more than a couple of guys on the floor with that specific talent, unless they have other talents to allow them to 'take turns' and contribute off-ball. Fultz has ZERO off-ball value, IMO. I would say the same about a couple of future HOFers...Scoot and Ja. Looking at our roster, something's got to give...and no sane person would suggest that Paolo or Franz should give their on-ball time to Fultz and relegate themselves to spotting up for sickouts on the perimeter.

I disagree about him having zero off-ball value (big enough to be used as screener, slip behind defenses, etc.) there are other ways to make defenses pay for sagging off - but I do agree his lack of 3pt shooting limits his value off-ball - perhaps significantly. What value he does have though, can also be improved upon - for instance, getting better at attacking close-outs when he does pass up a catch&shoot on the perimeter.

Honestly, *situation dependent*, I do think Paolo or Franz should give up some of their on-ball time to Fultz. Good example - Franz is one of the worst ISO players on our roster (0.69 ppp) while Fultz is by far the best (1.02 ppp).

Just because the glaring conflicts aren't at the same conventional position doesn't make them less problematic. If Ja or Scoot or even a tinier but far more efficient non-shooting PG like Tyus Jones, for example, were on ORL, there would be NO conversation about who's the PG...Fultz would be out of luck and out of town.

Ok, but the glaring conflict you are talking about is 3 pt shooting. At the other positions are all young guys who are trending positively toward becoming better distance shooters. Do you think Paolo is really destined to be a 29% 3pt shooter? Of course not. Also - don't get me wrong - Ja (and likely Scoot too) would of course send Fultz packing.