Trade/Free Agency Thread 2023-24, part 10 and Counting . . .

[zoyathedestroya]

Shelburne hit job. Same **** Windhorst was spewing months ago. These are cronies of Lebron/Lakers/Klutch who have an agenda. Not buying it until Brogdon stomps on the leprechaun logo.

[Celts17Pride]

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Malcontent Brogdon is going to be a distraction all year.

[Hal14]

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Malcontent Brogdon is going to be a distraction all year.

He hasn't even said or done anything lol.

[MeanGeraldGreen]

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Malcontent Brogdon is going to be a distraction all year.

He hasn't even said or done anything lol.

There are/were definitely some issues, coach crazy said the relationship needed to be worked on. Since then, we’ve gotten nothing concrete either way.

[GoCeltics123]

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The amount of speculation reporting from this is nuts

Reality is, Brogdon is here. Team tried to trade him and didn't. Relationship probably isn't great, but he's here, and they didn't move him (a lot of that due to his trade value I'm sure).

However, again, why should we care about his feelings if he's going to play? If he's not going to play that's a different story. But the team or Brogdon should just get out ahead of this imo. If he doesn't play for this team, they should trade him. If not, keep him unless there's a good deal. Pretty simple

[Hal14]

Malcontent Brogdon is going to be a distraction all year.

He hasn't even said or done anything lol.

There are/were definitely some issues, coach crazy said the relationship needed to be worked on. Since then, we’ve gotten nothing concrete either way.

This is what Mazzulla said:

“The organization has had a few conversations,” Mazzulla said. “I think anytime you are in a situation like that and you are in a relationship, you just have to take some small steps into it. There is a healing process, there is a listening process and to see where we are at and where we have to get to.”

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/07/how-celtics-malcolm-brogdon-moving-on-after-trade-rumors-per-joe-mazzulla.html

This is also coming from a coach who constantly trolls the media and messes with them. Also a coach who often says stuff in interviews that show an overly sensitive/emotional side, like saying "tell him that I love him" when reporters ask what he's gonna tell marcus Smart right after the game where Smart got ejected.

Joe comes across so sensitive in interviews and often trolls the media (it might be just an act too) that he'd probably say there is a healing process if a reporter asked him about the breakfast he ate that morning being too cold for him to eat the whole thing

[GoCeltics123]

Malcontent Brogdon is going to be a distraction all year.

He hasn't even said or done anything lol.

There are/were definitely some issues, coach crazy said the relationship needed to be worked on. Since then, we’ve gotten nothing concrete either way.

Again though, why would this matter, unless he's too hurt to play or holds out? We all know Jaylen was pissed last year when he was offered for KD, and he played. Ray got traded to Memphis and that fell through, he played.

This was going to be Malcolm's last year here barring a title, so all I care about is that he plays. So his elbow is definitely a concern. But it was a concern before this too.

But if he's just pissy and still suits up and plays like Brogdon, again, why should we care

[MeanGeraldGreen]

He hasn't even said or done anything lol.

There are/were definitely some issues, coach crazy said the relationship needed to be worked on. Since then, we’ve gotten nothing concrete either way.

Again though, why would this matter, unless he's too hurt to play or holds out? We all know Jaylen was pissed last year when he was offered for KD, and he played. Ray got traded to Memphis and that fell through, he played.

This was going to be Malcolm's last year here barring a title, so all I care about is that he plays. So his elbow is definitely a concern. But it was a concern before this too.

But if he's just pissy and still suits up and plays like Brogdon, again, why should we care

I don’t think anyone cares lol. I sure don’t, I just rather have Hield.

[GoCeltics123]

There are/were definitely some issues, coach crazy said the relationship needed to be worked on. Since then, we’ve gotten nothing concrete either way.

Again though, why would this matter, unless he's too hurt to play or holds out? We all know Jaylen was pissed last year when he was offered for KD, and he played. Ray got traded to Memphis and that fell through, he played.

This was going to be Malcolm's last year here barring a title, so all I care about is that he plays. So his elbow is definitely a concern. But it was a concern before this too.

But if he's just pissy and still suits up and plays like Brogdon, again, why should we care

I don’t think anyone cares lol. I sure don’t, I just rather have Hield.

And that's a totally fair opinion. I'm kinda 50/50 on that because I like Buddy but I have major concerns about him in the playoffs, even more than Brogdon. He's a major defensive liability like Malcolm, but he also doesn't have the ability to create off the dribble like Brogdon does. And we can't extend him, and I'm not sure he'd be cool at all with a bench role.

If Brogdon is going to sit out in protest for whatever reason, then do the trade yeah. If not, ehhhh

[31to6]

Austin Rivers has been a trash offensive player for a lot of years now, but seems to have developed into a decent defensive player, and has some ****/fire to him -- I guess I'd welcome that. Team could use someone ready to throw down at a moment's notice.

Hield hasn't really interested me since he was at Oklahoma. Despite his epic 3pt #s, career 57 TS% and not really much impact. I think, going forward, he's unlikely to do much more than fade away quietly.

I think people are sleeping on how good Malcolm was last season. Having him as a fourth offensive option is really kind of wild.

Agree with most of that but think Rivers has still been pretty decent offensively. These are his catch and shoot 3 pt % over the past 3 years: 36%, 37%, 40%. Very solid numbers. The other thing I like about him offensively is how much of a low usage guy he is. Doesn't need the ball in his hands - which is important when we have 3 high usage stars on the team. His usage rate is typically around like 12.6% which is really low.

Also, outside of our top 7 guys, we don't really have anyone who has proven they can hit shots in the playoffs. Pritchard's shooting has dropped off during the playoffs, Hauser hasn't been given much of a chance to play yet in the playoffs. Our other guys have basically no playoff experience. Rivers, across his last 3 postseasons, (2021, 2022, 2023), has shot 40.3% from 3 (25/62).

Lastly, I know it's a highlight vid, but he made some impressive drives to the bucket last season - I like that he doesn't settle for 3's on those plays and looks to still have good quickness off the dribble.

Watch on YouTube

I know he has offensive skills, and has since the high school mixtape days, but here's the evidence that surprised me:
he has a career offensive box plus/minus of -2.4. The last two seasons (~60 games per year) he has been -3.5 (with DEN) and -3.3 (with MIN). Those stand out as really bad numbers! TS% for his career is 0.516, with a career-high of 0.564 last season. His defensive box plus/minus are better than his offensive -- but still underwater at a career average of -0.7. But he has been in the positive for four of the last five seasons (including last year at 0.5) so that matches my perception that he's developed as a defender. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/riverau01.html#all_advanced-playoffs_advanced

Offensively though? I think the best that could be said is:
1. He can create his own shot
2. He's got guts -- he'll take his shot
3. Like you said, he's got diversity to his game, and I like his 'shimmy first step' that is almost but I guess not quite a travel

Overall: I'd be happy enough if they signed him, though any minutes he might get would presumably be at the expense of the Banton development project.

[31to6]

Again though, why would this matter, unless he's too hurt to play or holds out? We all know Jaylen was pissed last year when he was offered for KD, and he played. Ray got traded to Memphis and that fell through, he played.

This was going to be Malcolm's last year here barring a title, so all I care about is that he plays. So his elbow is definitely a concern. But it was a concern before this too.

But if he's just pissy and still suits up and plays like Brogdon, again, why should we care

I don’t think anyone cares lol. I sure don’t, I just rather have Hield.

And that's a totally fair opinion. I'm kinda 50/50 on that because I like Buddy but I have major concerns about him in the playoffs, even more than Brogdon. He's a major defensive liability like Malcolm, but he also doesn't have the ability to create off the dribble like Brogdon does. And we can't extend him, and I'm not sure he'd be cool at all with a bench role.

If Brogdon is going to sit out in protest for whatever reason, then do the trade yeah. If not, ehhhh

DW/JB/JT/KP/RW
MB/PP/SH/OB/AH

vs

DW/JB/JT/KP/RW
PP/BH/SH/OB/AH

I like it with Brogdon better. His ballhandling and playmaking potential are valuable, and he carried a lot of second units as the guy who can get his own shot -- often in the paint. Getting Buddy would just be mashing the 3PTFGA button more -- that thing's already going to be pretty worn out.

I mean, if Malcolm is sending Joe mutilated DVD copies of "The Town" every day, maybe you move him, and I know his contract needs to go by the end of next June regardless, but I'm fine having White, either Jay, Kristaps, Al, Sam, and Pritchard take the open kick-out 3s without bringing in Buddy to REALLY take them.

[ConstableGeneva]

There were 30 players who played at least half the games last season, took 8+ 3PAs per 100 possessions, and made 40%+ of those attempts. In terms of volume, Steph and Klay are 1st and 2nd on the list. Hield and Hauser are 4th and 5th respectively. Brogdon and Horford are 29th and 30th.

Lower the threshold to 38%+ 3FG%, White and Porzingis also both make it at the end of a 54-player list.

FWIW, Pritchard made the cut in Brad's final season as coach and Ime's lone season.

[ConstableGeneva]

People coming after Joe 'cos we "take too many threes" or whatever should be thrilled with a potential Hield addition and elevation of Pritchard's role. Brogdon drives twice as much as Hield in five less minutes per game. Pritchard can't even get past the arc with his dribble.

Celtics have enough shooters and not enough ball-handlers or guys who can do multiple things. What we really need though is for Tatum and Brown to raise their 3-pt percentage to at least above average since they're among those who take the most threes on the team.

[Celts17Pride]

https://x.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1704845414891946449

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA

I don't know what to make of all the Malcolm Brogdon stuff. Clearly there is some relationship repair that needs to happen there.
9:09 AM · Sep 21, 2023

[GoCeltics123]

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[ConstableGeneva]

I mean no disrespect to an RGM veteran but clearly Smitty doesn't have his own sources to corroborate this (otherwise he'd indicate so) and is just parroting what Washburn and Shelburne are saying. Just look at their surnames... they're out to BURN Boston to the ground. At least Cs beat writers have something to ask Brogdon on media day.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Who can the Warriors really trade for him?

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[Larry_Russell]

What can the Warriors really trade for him?

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You know that is a false list due to 1 reason.

No miami listed on it.

[SatchSanders]

Austin Rivers has been a trash offensive player for a lot of years now, but seems to have developed into a decent defensive player, and has some ****/fire to him -- I guess I'd welcome that. Team could use someone ready to throw down at a moment's notice.

Hield hasn't really interested me since he was at Oklahoma. Despite his epic 3pt #s, career 57 TS% and not really much impact. I think, going forward, he's unlikely to do much more than fade away quietly.

I think people are sleeping on how good Malcolm was last season. Having him as a fourth offensive option is really kind of wild.

Agree with most of that but think Rivers has still been pretty decent offensively. These are his catch and shoot 3 pt % over the past 3 years: 36%, 37%, 40%. Very solid numbers. The other thing I like about him offensively is how much of a low usage guy he is. Doesn't need the ball in his hands - which is important when we have 3 high usage stars on the team. His usage rate is typically around like 12.6% which is really low.

Also, outside of our top 7 guys, we don't really have anyone who has proven they can hit shots in the playoffs. Pritchard's shooting has dropped off during the playoffs, Hauser hasn't been given much of a chance to play yet in the playoffs. Our other guys have basically no playoff experience. Rivers, across his last 3 postseasons, (2021, 2022, 2023), has shot 40.3% from 3 (25/62).

Lastly, I know it's a highlight vid, but he made some impressive drives to the bucket last season - I like that he doesn't settle for 3's on those plays and looks to still have good quickness off the dribble.

Watch on YouTube

I know he has offensive skills, and has since the high school mixtape days, but here's the evidence that surprised me:
he has a career offensive box plus/minus of -2.4. The last two seasons (~60 games per year) he has been -3.5 (with DEN) and -3.3 (with MIN). Those stand out as really bad numbers! TS% for his career is 0.516, with a career-high of 0.564 last season. His defensive box plus/minus are better than his offensive -- but still underwater at a career average of -0.7. But he has been in the positive for four of the last five seasons (including last year at 0.5) so that matches my perception that he's developed as a defender. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/riverau01.html#all_advanced-playoffs_advanced

Offensively though? I think the best that could be said is:
1. He can create his own shot
2. He's got guts -- he'll take his shot
3. Like you said, he's got diversity to his game, and I like his 'shimmy first step' that is almost but I guess not quite a travel

Overall: I'd be happy enough if they signed him, though any minutes he might get would presumably be at the expense of the Banton development project.

Whenever I think of Austin Rivers I think of Blake Griffin's greatest perfomance:

Watch on YouTube

[ConstableGeneva]

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It would certainly be an interesting matchup. I don't think the Grizzlies have won a game against Tatum since he came into the league. Their one win against the Cs came in OT and Tatum was out.