Jordan Love Thread - All Aboard the Love Train

[jimmybones]

Obviously wanna see him with his full compliment of weapons for one game, let alone an entire season before we can really judge, but man, sometimes it's ok to be excited and say he's "the guy" (more just waiting to see if he's THE guy) even if it's just based on early returns. Like, does he look the part? Is he physically capable of making all the throws?

He could absolutely stink next week (Saints are a good defense), but it wouldn't suddenly erase the flashes we've seen already. I mean, he's literally leading the league through 2-weeks in passer rating, passing TD's, and adjusted yards per-pass attempt all while playing with a shorthanded offense. That's not really the profile of a "game-manager" type, i.e. I've already seen enough to toss out the Jimmy G comparisons (he was never the kind of talent Jordan is).

Good points, it's pretty natural for fans to be living and dying with every new piece of info because we have so little info and we're hopeful for the best with him. But, as you say, objectively all you can ask for this year is flashes and for me his poise and physical ability is apparent. Obviously you'd love to continue to see more of those high level flashes but the reality is we're going to be a year of two away from seeing his true peak. I'm optimistic and going to enjoy the ride.

[M-C-G]

We had two (I think) pass interference calls and two more that could/should have been called. Need to at least factor that in on the plus 20 yard attempts


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FWIW, that first PI which was called on that first deep shot was an EXCELLENT toss. As was that throw to Wicks (I think) in the corner of the endzone that probably should have been PI.

Agreed, that is probably 60 extra yards and one TD right there. But the accuracy was good to see.

Late in the fourth he had a big miss to Wicks(I think) on some crossers and if he had looked the other side of the fields he had Doubs open for a 30 yard gain, he just didn't get his eyes around.

The worst play was the throw to Heath where it was a stop route that wouldn't have got the first down, Heath had no position on the CB and it should have absolutely been a pick 6, but I don't mind if he has a couple of blunders a game with everything else that we are seeing. Should be fun to watch these catch passers improve their games as well, they've been a bit iffy at times too.

[skones]

We had two (I think) pass interference calls and two more that could/should have been called. Need to at least factor that in on the plus 20 yard attempts


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FWIW, that first PI which was called on that first deep shot was an EXCELLENT toss. As was that throw to Wicks (I think) in the corner of the endzone that probably should have been PI.

Agreed, that is probably 60 extra yards and one TD right there. But the accuracy was good to see.

Late in the fourth he had a big miss to Wicks(I think) on some crossers and if he had looked the other side of the fields he had Doubs open for a 30 yard gain, he just didn't get his eyes around.

The worst play was the throw to Heath where it was a stop route that wouldn't have got the first down, Heath had no position on the CB and it should have absolutely been a pick 6, but I don't mind if he has a couple of blunders a game with everything else that we are seeing. Should be fun to watch these catch passers improve their games as well, they've been a bit iffy at times too.

Honestly, I just think he's ass and I wanted to be optimistic. That Atlanta game was an eyesore on a number of levels. He's a career high level backup. Is anyone sick outside of Caleb Williams next year?

[M-C-G]

FWIW, that first PI which was called on that first deep shot was an EXCELLENT toss. As was that throw to Wicks (I think) in the corner of the endzone that probably should have been PI.

Agreed, that is probably 60 extra yards and one TD right there. But the accuracy was good to see.

Late in the fourth he had a big miss to Wicks(I think) on some crossers and if he had looked the other side of the fields he had Doubs open for a 30 yard gain, he just didn't get his eyes around.

The worst play was the throw to Heath where it was a stop route that wouldn't have got the first down, Heath had no position on the CB and it should have absolutely been a pick 6, but I don't mind if he has a couple of blunders a game with everything else that we are seeing. Should be fun to watch these catch passers improve their games as well, they've been a bit iffy at times too.

Honestly, I just think he's ass and I wanted to be optimistic. That Atlanta game was an eyesore on a number of levels. He's a career high level backup. Is anyone sick outside of Caleb Williams next year?

Have you watched the film studies with JT O Sullivan and Kurt Warner? I'm pretty shocked anyone that has watched those would think Love is 'ass'...but maybe you do your own all 22 type stuff, I don't know.

[skones]

Have you watched the film studies with JT O Sullivan and Kurt Warner? I'm pretty shocked anyone that has watched those would think Love is 'ass'...but maybe you do your own all 22 type stuff, I don't know.

Yes, I have. I've said as such in this thread. I don't know how you can look at all of these metrics, watch him play, and not realize the TD count is inflated and that he's just not that good right now. He's sat and practiced in the NFL for three seasons, he's not a rookie, so I'm going to hold him to a higher standard.

Dude's 30th in the NFL in Completion % and he played the Bears and Falcons. Think about that.

[MVP2110]

Have you watched the film studies with JT O Sullivan and Kurt Warner? I'm pretty shocked anyone that has watched those would think Love is 'ass'...but maybe you do your own all 22 type stuff, I don't know.

Yes, I have. I've said as such in this thread. I don't know how you can look at all of these metrics, watch him play, and not realize the TD count is inflated and that he's just not that good right now. He's sat and practiced in the NFL for three seasons, he's not a rookie, so I'm going to hold him to a higher standard.

Dude's 30th in the NFL in Completion % and he played the Bears and Falcons. Think about that.

He's also 30th in expected completion % so he's basically right where he should be. The TDs are inflated some but he's #1 in EPA/Play, that doesn't happen by pure luck

[ReasonablySober]

Sample size, folks.

There. Now stop using numbers to make your arguments, one way or another.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Have you watched the film studies with JT O Sullivan and Kurt Warner? I'm pretty shocked anyone that has watched those would think Love is 'ass'...but maybe you do your own all 22 type stuff, I don't know.

Yes, I have. I've said as such in this thread. I don't know how you can look at all of these metrics, watch him play, and not realize the TD count is inflated and that he's just not that good right now. He's sat and practiced in the NFL for three seasons, he's not a rookie, so I'm going to hold him to a higher standard.

Dude's 30th in the NFL in Completion % and he played the Bears and Falcons. Think about that.

I'm a firm believer in playing young QBs and it's why I was fundamentally against the pick. There's just such a huge difference between practice and actually playing games when it comes to developing and judging a QB. I'm sure Love has an advantage over rookies as far as knowing the playbook but other than that he's still basically a rookie and it's way to early to judge.

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[M-C-G]

Have you watched the film studies with JT O Sullivan and Kurt Warner? I'm pretty shocked anyone that has watched those would think Love is 'ass'...but maybe you do your own all 22 type stuff, I don't know.

Yes, I have. I've said as such in this thread. I don't know how you can look at all of these metrics, watch him play, and not realize the TD count is inflated and that he's just not that good right now. He's sat and practiced in the NFL for three seasons, he's not a rookie, so I'm going to hold him to a higher standard.

Dude's 30th in the NFL in Completion % and he played the Bears and Falcons. Think about that.

I don't follow everyone's individual opinion in these threads, that's not a knock against anyone in particular. I just think 'ass' is a strong word given guys that I respect that I think do great film breakdowns think the play is beginning to match the potential.

Hold him to whatever standard Rodgers was held to, seems fair enough. I just think there is a lot of tools, good pocket presence and good decision making MOST of the time. I think if you are going to hold him to a higher standard because its his fourth year, then we just need to account for having the least experienced catching group in maybe NFL history. Tit for tat I suppose.

When you said 'yes I have' are you talking about the all 22 stuff or JT and Warner out of curiosity?

[MVP2110]

Even if you take away Love's "luckiest" throws he's still been a top level QB through 2 games. As was stated earlier it's a small sample but Love has been really good in that small sample

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[M-C-G]

Have you watched the film studies with JT O Sullivan and Kurt Warner? I'm pretty shocked anyone that has watched those would think Love is 'ass'...but maybe you do your own all 22 type stuff, I don't know.

Yes, I have. I've said as such in this thread. I don't know how you can look at all of these metrics, watch him play, and not realize the TD count is inflated and that he's just not that good right now. He's sat and practiced in the NFL for three seasons, he's not a rookie, so I'm going to hold him to a higher standard.

Dude's 30th in the NFL in Completion % and he played the Bears and Falcons. Think about that.

I'm a firm believer in playing young QBs and it's why I was fundamentally against the pick. There's just such a huge difference between practice and actually playing games when it comes to developing and judging a QB. I'm sure Love has an advantage over rookies as far as knowing the playbook but other than that he's still basically a rookie and it's way to early to judge.

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My response to your comment is not really agree or disagree but I think we should keep in mind for decades the plan was to draft your young QB and develop him before letting him start for a few years. Obviously a lot has changed but its hard for me to look at all the guys that washed out after playing too early and think that is a universally good approach.

Going back to the 2013 draft and just looking at first round picks. I am going to just loosely label whether I think a guy was a hit or bust as a 'franchise QB' (loosely getting that second contract as the starter with the team that drafted them) and then try to identify how many of them were thrown in the fire vs. developed. I am doing this on the fly so it could be the results are against my own argument but I will post it anyway
EJ Manuel - bust (10 games started rookie year)
Blake Bortles - bust (13)
Johnny Manziel - bust (2 but he was out of the league after 8 starts)
Teddy Bridgewater - bust (12)
James Winston - bust (16)
Marcus Mariota - bust (12)
Jared Goff - would have said bust, but maybe neutral (7)
Carson Wentz - neutral (16)
Paxton Lynch - bust (2 but out of the league with 4 starts)
Mitch Trubisky - bust (12)
Pat Mahomes - hit (1)
Deshaun Watson - hit (6)
Baker Mayfield - bust (13)
Sam Darnold - bust (13)
Josh Rosen - bust (13)
Lamar Jackson - hit (7)
Kyler Murray - hit (16)
Daniel Jones - hit (but I don't think he is good) (12)
Dwayne Haskins - bust (7)
Joe Burrow - hit (10)
Tua T - hit (9)
Josh Herbert - hit (15)
Jordan Love - time will tell (0)
Trever Lawrence - hit (17)
Zach Wilson - bust (13)
Trey Lance - bust (2)
Justin Fields - time will tell, but before the last two games I would have maybe said hit (10)
Mac Jones - neutral but I don't personally think he is very good (17)
Kenny Pickett - neutral (12)
Bryce Young - tbd
CJ Stroud - tbd
Anthony Richardson - tbd

Tons of nuance, whether you agree on my label, whether they were hurt or had a **** coach, not to mention there is a high bust rate at the position. I just personally think too soon has the ability to ruin a players potential and there might not be a worse result than drafting a guy with a high first, having him flame out on your team only to get to develop into something later down the line.

[jute2003]

I get not being a believer yet but I dont know how anyone can say anything definitively after 2 starts...well, I guess I do get how they could. "Fart noise"

[ReasonablySober]

The hit rate on guys who sit seems a hell of a better than guys who have to play right away.

[WeekapaugGroove]

The hit rate on guys who sit seems a hell of a better than guys who have to play right away.

Other than Maholmes, who sat more than just part of their first season?

Do you think guys like Herbert, Burrow, Lawrence would be better right now har they not played right away. Because I don't

I should probably clarify that I think there are some raw dudes who a year on the bench can help but I don't think there's much difference year after that. Like I think Love would look pretty similar as he does right now had he started in 2021.


As far as the bust rate with QBs it's just a super hard position to scout and there's no magic formula for evaluating or developing these guys otherwise it teams wouldn't keep failing at it.

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[ReasonablySober]

The hit rate on guys who sit seems a hell of a better than guys who have to play right away.

Other than Maholmes, who sat more than just part of their first season?

Do you think guys like Herbert, Burrow, Lawrence would be better right now har they not played right away. Because I don't

I should probably clarify that I think there are some raw dudes who a year on the bench can help but I don't think there's much difference year after that. Like I think Love would look pretty similar as he does right now had he started in 2021.


As far as the bust rate with QBs it's just a super hard position to scout and there's no magic formula for evaluating or developing these guys otherwise it teams wouldn't keep failing at it.

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Tua sat quite a bit. Lamar Jackson did too. But obviously there was Rodgers. Phillip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Pennington, and Culpepper.

[Ron Swanson]

I don't think we can ever really quantify how much of a benefit sitting for at least one season is for rookie QB's, but we've seen plenty of examples of how starting a rookie QB right out of the gate can absolutely destroy their confidence and/or body (see: David Carr, Tim Couch, Robert Griffin, etc.) if you don't have a good enough structure around them.

[ReasonablySober]

I don't think we can ever really quantify how much of a benefit sitting for at least one season is for rookie QB's, but we've seen plenty of examples of how starting a rookie QB right out of the gate can absolutely destroy their confidence and/or body (see: David Carr, Tim Couch, Robert Griffin, etc.) if you don't have a good enough structure around them.

100%

We never see the case of "Wow, that guy should have been on the field sooner!" but we have a monster list of what-ifs when it comes to rookie QBs being asked to carry teams that were the absolute worst the year before.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I don't think we can ever really quantify how much of a benefit sitting for at least one season is for rookie QB's, but we've seen plenty of examples of how starting a rookie QB right out of the gate can absolutely destroy their confidence and/or body (see: David Carr, Tim Couch, Robert Griffin, etc.) if you don't have a good enough structure around them.

Carr almost belongs in his own category with how bad of a line he had in front of him. If you're line is terrible it's a problem regardless if your QB is a rookie or 10 yr vet.

But for all we know all these dudes would have stunk regardless. We really don't see guys bust one place then go be a star at their next stop. So maybe it's as simple as some of these dude have 'it' and some just don't and sitting/playing really doesn't matter.


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[humanrefutation]

I don't think we can ever really quantify how much of a benefit sitting for at least one season is for rookie QB's, but we've seen plenty of examples of how starting a rookie QB right out of the gate can absolutely destroy their confidence and/or body (see: David Carr, Tim Couch, Robert Griffin, etc.) if you don't have a good enough structure around them.

100%

We never see the case of "Wow, that guy should have been on the field sooner!" but we have a monster list of what-ifs when it comes to rookie QBs being asked to carry teams that were the absolute worst the year before.

Mahomes probably didn't need to sit behind Alex Smith for a year and Rodgers should have probably taken over for Favre in 2007.

But those are hindsight calls that we can only make because they are two of the only QBs in recent memory who actually did sit for at least a season.

[MVP2110]

I don't think we can ever really quantify how much of a benefit sitting for at least one season is for rookie QB's, but we've seen plenty of examples of how starting a rookie QB right out of the gate can absolutely destroy their confidence and/or body (see: David Carr, Tim Couch, Robert Griffin, etc.) if you don't have a good enough structure around them.

100%

We never see the case of "Wow, that guy should have been on the field sooner!" but we have a monster list of what-ifs when it comes to rookie QBs being asked to carry teams that were the absolute worst the year before.

Mahomes probably didn't need to sit behind Alex Smith for a year and Rodgers should have probably taken over for Favre in 2007.

But those are hindsight calls that we can only make because they are two of the only QBs in recent memory who actually did sit for at least a season.

I agree on Mahomes but Favre was awesome in 2007, was the only player besides Brady to get an MVP vote