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Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#101 » by Tha Cynic » Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:05 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
Tha Cynic wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
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Can't happen again.


Yeah his 3 pointer sucks. This was expected when he was drafted.


TS% isn't just 3's. It's a culmination of your finishing at the rim, mid range, FT's, etc etc. Our entire starting line up was basically below average but for Scottie to be the worst out of them shows how much he truly struggled last year.


Sorry, ended up editing my post while you were posting. My point is, his TS% sucked last season and his 3s sucked. It's not too surprising if we look at his predraft projections. I think the key is he's trying these things, but really needs to get to the line more. The TS% will improve over time as his offensive game becomes more refined.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#102 » by Scase » Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:38 pm

SkywalkerAC wrote:
Scase wrote:
SkywalkerAC wrote:From last thread:

Has anyone read any of Darko’s stuff? One podcast guest said the offense would probably feature two hubs at the high post, with the initial ball handler passing to the wings and heading to the weak side, and less so dependent on high pick and roll to initiate.
Any of that ring a bell to anyone?

Just gets me thinking that Scottie can thrive both as one of those hubs and as the guy passing off and cutting through (presumably into a side DHO action that could get Scottie downhill or who knows what).

Any insights into how Scottie could look as a ball handler and/or a screener in different Horns actions?

All this theory crafting in how the offense can work, is all ignoring that without any legitimate and consistent outside threats, you can't cut. Sag off the 3pt line and there's no room to cut to the basket.

It's 2023, you need shooters to open up the floor. Period.


Good thing we have shooters then. Even with our most questionable shooting line (Scottie as the starting point), you can go with Horns - maybe you have Scottie and Jak at the elbows and Pascal handling (just for example), Gary and OG in the corners. Scottie and Jak's defenders have to come up to the top of the key to anticipate the action. Pascal could feed it in to Jak and then can go to that side for the DHO or he could take a little backscreen from Scottie on the other side. Jak can find Pascal diving to the hoop or find Scottie on the roll/pop, kick to shooters etc. Jak needs to be guarded up there or the pass will be too easy for him and because he can actually dribble into space to shift the D. They actually ran exactly this play at Rico Hines except it was Gary on the left high-post setting the ball screen, and Jak found him on the roll, in turn finding Scottie for the dump off - easy basket.

Bottomline, actions like this can create space even with Jak's limited shot. But having two elite catch and shoot guys in the corners certainly helps.

And then we come with Gradey, and Otto, and McDaniels. I think our shooting woes are overblown.


Man, you are in for a real rude awakening if you think this team has no shooting issues. You're using plays ran at a Rico run as an example of something that will work in an NBA game? Like damn.

And then using McDaniels as an excuse as to why our shooting woes are overblown? Dude shot 33% from 3 last year, and averages 34%.

And Gradey, who might very well be a great shooter, but currently has roughly 0 minutes of NBA experience.

And OPJ, who likely won't see 40 games.

Yeah, you sure took care of the overblown issue right there. My lord.

32%
33.5%
37.5%
29%
38.4%
39.7% - OPJ*
33.4%
32.8%
8.3%
32.7%
0%
34.5%
33.7%
24%
0% - Gradey*

That's our 15 man roster, career 3pt shooting percentages. We have THREE of them that shoot above league average, one of which is OPJ who cannot be taken into account. So reliably, 2 who can hit at a rate at or above league average.

Even being generous taking OPJs inflated stats into account, AND leaving out Gradey AND Jaks 0%, that gives you a team average of 31.5%, which is dead last in the league based on last years stats.

But yeah, our shooting issues are overblown :roll:
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#103 » by SkywalkerAC » Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:08 pm

Right, because taking averages across the roster provide such deep insight into how to make it work on the court.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#104 » by SkywalkerAC » Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:16 pm

Horns calls for great corner shooting, which we will have in OG and Gary around Scottie and Pascal in the starting lineup. Pascal and yes even Scottie are also serviceable from the corners. McDaniels is great on the catch-and-shoot from the corners. Shroder is money there as well. Otto is starting the season healthy so why exactly are we counting him out? We have stretch bigs. We have backup guards that can shoot. And yes, Gradey Dick is a very good shooter, out of the gates.

Did I mention Gary and OG?

We don't have to have the same 3-point shot chart that we had last year. This is a different team that will have its own style, but to say that we don't have shooting is just wrong. There are challenges to be overcome, sure, but that's what coaching is for.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#105 » by Scase » Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:43 pm

SkywalkerAC wrote:Right, because taking averages across the roster provide such deep insight into how to make it work on the court.


Yeah man, why would ANYONE assume career averages would be ANY sort of predictor of future shooting. What a crazy concept.

And run horns all you want, that still leaves 2 players on the entire team that can shoot from those spots.

Scottie averaged 32% from corner 3s last season, and Siakam 33.8%. And let me check my notes here....Jak shot.....ah yes, 0%. McDaniels, 34%, Schroder 32.5%. Which all shockingly are real close to their career average 3pt %. It's almost like it's not much of a difference. Fun fact, league average last year from the corners was 38.5%

So again, you have a roster of 15 players, 3 of them shoot at/above league average, only 2 of them are reliable, but we don't have a shooting issue. Gotcha.

But I'm sure that Darkos new system is going to take a team that was 28th in 3pt shooting last year, got worse by replacing FVV with worse shooters, and make them respectable by system alone. Sure is a good thing defenses in the NBA won't be able to adjust to a singular play.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#106 » by SkywalkerAC » Sat Sep 23, 2023 12:24 am

Scase wrote:
SkywalkerAC wrote:Right, because taking averages across the roster provide such deep insight into how to make it work on the court.


Yeah man, why would ANYONE assume career averages would be ANY sort of predictor of future shooting. What a crazy concept.

And run horns all you want, that still leaves 2 players on the entire team that can shoot from those spots.

Scottie averaged 32% from corner 3s last season, and Siakam 33.8%. And let me check my notes here....Jak shot.....ah yes, 0%. McDaniels, 34%, Schroder 32.5%. Which all shockingly are real close to their career average 3pt %. It's almost like it's not much of a difference. Fun fact, league average last year from the corners was 38.5%

So again, you have a roster of 15 players, 3 of them shoot at/above league average, only 2 of them are reliable, but we don't have a shooting issue. Gotcha.

But I'm sure that Darkos new system is going to take a team that was 28th in 3pt shooting last year, got worse by replacing FVV with worse shooters, and make them respectable by system alone. Sure is a good thing defenses in the NBA won't be able to adjust to a singular play.


I appreciate you looking into some of the numbers. I had a whole response typed out on my phone but lost it, will leave it at that for now. Cheers.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#107 » by Pointgod » Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:14 pm

Scase wrote:
SkywalkerAC wrote:Right, because taking averages across the roster provide such deep insight into how to make it work on the court.


Yeah man, why would ANYONE assume career averages would be ANY sort of predictor of future shooting. What a crazy concept.

And run horns all you want, that still leaves 2 players on the entire team that can shoot from those spots.

Scottie averaged 32% from corner 3s last season, and Siakam 33.8%. And let me check my notes here....Jak shot.....ah yes, 0%. McDaniels, 34%, Schroder 32.5%. Which all shockingly are real close to their career average 3pt %. It's almost like it's not much of a difference. Fun fact, league average last year from the corners was 38.5%

So again, you have a roster of 15 players, 3 of them shoot at/above league average, only 2 of them are reliable, but we don't have a shooting issue. Gotcha.

But I'm sure that Darkos new system is going to take a team that was 28th in 3pt shooting last year, got worse by replacing FVV with worse shooters, and make them respectable by system alone. Sure is a good thing defenses in the NBA won't be able to adjust to a singular play.


The numbers don’t lie. We were a putrid 3 point shooting team last year. And we did nothing to address it in the offseason. Putting it all on a rookie is also unfair.

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Expecting Barnes to turn into Magic Johnson is not reasonable. Ideally you want to go 4 out and let him drive to the basket because teams will force him to use the pull up or shoot from the outside. Right now the paint will be too crowded and we’re easy to defend. Force us into shooting from long distance.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#108 » by Scase » Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:36 pm

Pointgod wrote:
Scase wrote:
SkywalkerAC wrote:Right, because taking averages across the roster provide such deep insight into how to make it work on the court.


Yeah man, why would ANYONE assume career averages would be ANY sort of predictor of future shooting. What a crazy concept.

And run horns all you want, that still leaves 2 players on the entire team that can shoot from those spots.

Scottie averaged 32% from corner 3s last season, and Siakam 33.8%. And let me check my notes here....Jak shot.....ah yes, 0%. McDaniels, 34%, Schroder 32.5%. Which all shockingly are real close to their career average 3pt %. It's almost like it's not much of a difference. Fun fact, league average last year from the corners was 38.5%

So again, you have a roster of 15 players, 3 of them shoot at/above league average, only 2 of them are reliable, but we don't have a shooting issue. Gotcha.

But I'm sure that Darkos new system is going to take a team that was 28th in 3pt shooting last year, got worse by replacing FVV with worse shooters, and make them respectable by system alone. Sure is a good thing defenses in the NBA won't be able to adjust to a singular play.


The numbers don’t lie. We were a putrid 3 point shooting team last year. And we did nothing to address it in the offseason. Putting it all on a rookie is also unfair.

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Expecting Barnes to turn into Magic Johnson is not reasonable. Ideally you want to go 4 out and let him drive to the basket because teams will force him to use the pull up or shoot from the outside. Right now the paint will be too crowded and we’re easy to defend. Force us into shooting from long distance.

This is my biggest gripe, if we are trying to make Barnes the focal point/cornerstone/future of the franchise. We need to ship out players like Siakam/Jak and start investing in shooters. Scottie is too talented at distributing the ball to be wasting him away camped out on the 3pt line shooting 28%

This is looking like the same problem with Siakam the last few years. Make the dude the focal point, but put a team around him that doesn't compliment him in the slightest.

Someone made a comment before that was the team spot on, (Paraphrasing) the roster is filled with a bunch of good players, but it's not a team.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#109 » by SkywalkerAC » Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:03 am

Pointgod wrote:
Scase wrote:
SkywalkerAC wrote:Right, because taking averages across the roster provide such deep insight into how to make it work on the court.


Yeah man, why would ANYONE assume career averages would be ANY sort of predictor of future shooting. What a crazy concept.

And run horns all you want, that still leaves 2 players on the entire team that can shoot from those spots.

Scottie averaged 32% from corner 3s last season, and Siakam 33.8%. And let me check my notes here....Jak shot.....ah yes, 0%. McDaniels, 34%, Schroder 32.5%. Which all shockingly are real close to their career average 3pt %. It's almost like it's not much of a difference. Fun fact, league average last year from the corners was 38.5%

So again, you have a roster of 15 players, 3 of them shoot at/above league average, only 2 of them are reliable, but we don't have a shooting issue. Gotcha.

But I'm sure that Darkos new system is going to take a team that was 28th in 3pt shooting last year, got worse by replacing FVV with worse shooters, and make them respectable by system alone. Sure is a good thing defenses in the NBA won't be able to adjust to a singular play.


The numbers don’t lie. We were a putrid 3 point shooting team last year. And we did nothing to address it in the offseason. Putting it all on a rookie is also unfair.

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Sure the Warriors are good at shooting, but didn’t they only win a few more games than we did last season?
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#110 » by Clay Davis » Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:08 am

Reeko wrote:Will be surprised if he doesn't firmly establish himself as a top 15 player this season and clearly ahead of everyone else in his draft class. Cade and Jalen are mediocre, Franz is good but has a limited ceiling, Mobley is really just Tyson Chandler 2.0, and Giddey is a traffic cone on defense. Scottie likely finishes top 10 in MVP voting this season.

Yes King we got that. Scottie is the rizz-extraordinaire, a man of the smart people.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#111 » by WaltFrazier » Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:19 am

What I got from this page is Maxey is really good at both pull-up threes and catch and shoot threes.
There goes my hero. Watch him as he goes.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#112 » by Scase » Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:10 am

SkywalkerAC wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
Scase wrote:
Yeah man, why would ANYONE assume career averages would be ANY sort of predictor of future shooting. What a crazy concept.

And run horns all you want, that still leaves 2 players on the entire team that can shoot from those spots.

Scottie averaged 32% from corner 3s last season, and Siakam 33.8%. And let me check my notes here....Jak shot.....ah yes, 0%. McDaniels, 34%, Schroder 32.5%. Which all shockingly are real close to their career average 3pt %. It's almost like it's not much of a difference. Fun fact, league average last year from the corners was 38.5%

So again, you have a roster of 15 players, 3 of them shoot at/above league average, only 2 of them are reliable, but we don't have a shooting issue. Gotcha.

But I'm sure that Darkos new system is going to take a team that was 28th in 3pt shooting last year, got worse by replacing FVV with worse shooters, and make them respectable by system alone. Sure is a good thing defenses in the NBA won't be able to adjust to a singular play.


The numbers don’t lie. We were a putrid 3 point shooting team last year. And we did nothing to address it in the offseason. Putting it all on a rookie is also unfair.

Read on Twitter


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Sure the Warriors are good at shooting, but didn’t they only win a few more games than we did last season?

West was deeper last year, and I don't think the point is arguing about them last year alone. Rather that type of team construction kinda lead to 4 trophies. Obviously Steph is a huge part of that, but he isn't carrying a team if he's the only shooter on it.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#113 » by DreamTeam09 » Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:04 am

There's a 26 minute video of Scottie Barnes assist from 22/23 on YouTube

A lot of assists kicking the ball cross court, or from under the rim to the corners or up top for 3s. Lots of kick ahead assists
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#114 » by djsunyc » Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:44 am

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#115 » by TheGeneral99 » Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:46 pm

On a side note...anybody know when media day is this year?

Last year it was September 26 - but I can't find anything about this years date.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#116 » by SkywalkerAC » Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:20 pm

Pointgod wrote:The numbers don’t lie. We were a putrid 3 point shooting team last year. And we did nothing to address it in the offseason. Putting it all on a rookie is also unfair.

Read on Twitter


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Expecting Barnes to turn into Magic Johnson is not reasonable. Ideally you want to go 4 out and let him drive to the basket because teams will force him to use the pull up or shoot from the outside. Right now the paint will be too crowded and we’re easy to defend. Force us into shooting from long distance.


Isn’t this a strong argument for complete revamp of the offence away from self-created shots, and exactly the kind of pass-heavy offence we should be expecting from Darko?

That’s the most important thing we did to address it in the off-season, less iso dependence, will hopefully mean better and looks and more of them for Gary and OG, and Pascal as well.

And yes, for our shooters off the bench as well who should make it pretty easy to get to 4-out transition lineups around Barnes.

That’s not to say we wouldn’t generate better offence with a Dame-lead backcourt!
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#117 » by anf30000 » Sun Oct 1, 2023 9:57 pm

Can Scottie succeed at point guard?
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#118 » by Duffman100 » Sun Oct 1, 2023 10:00 pm

anf30000 wrote:Can Scottie succeed at point guard?


In theory yes. But he has to learn how to shoot.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#119 » by F22_Raptor » Sun Oct 1, 2023 10:18 pm



Barnes must have led the league in 360 dunks last season!
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#120 » by Jtoneller1 » Mon Oct 2, 2023 12:45 am

TheGeneral99 wrote:On a side note...anybody know when media day is this year?

Last year it was September 26 - but I can't find anything about this years date.
Tomorrow

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