Will/Should Demar Derozan get into the HOF?

[Jadoogar]

He kept Toronto afloat when it looked like they were done for.

a. Lowry was always the best player on the Raptors
b. what does that have to do with HOF candidacy? Does kemba get into the HOF for keeping the Hornets "afloat"?

[Jta444]

Has he had any classic playoff performances? I can’t remember any, especially in the weak east. If he gets in Billups, Iguodala, Dwight should be in before him.

[makubesu]

Most of the comments seem to think he’s getting in, but poll responders are giving voters more credit. The guys judging his resume lived through his career. They know everyone criticized his inefficient style. They know the Raptors won a chip after they swapped him for a real top player. They know how Lowry clearly established himself as the better of the duo. I don’t think he gets in.

[Infinite Llamas]

Mitch Richmond made it easier for a lot of subsequent guys to get in. A guy with good scoring numbers for a decade, mostly flying low on everyone's radar based on his persona/style of game, playing on mostly forgettable teams. He was the epitome of a 23 ppg type player on a lottery team that everyone overlooks.

Richmond was also a contemporary of Jordan so that helps his persona as well. He was fighting with Reggie and Clyde for the second best SG in the league for a while in the 90’s. He just had really bad luck with his second best teammate being Tisdale and Abdul-Rauf for his prime. But Richmond was a two-way force in his prime with no real holes in his offensive game. He was a great, great player on a poorly managed team.

[Karate Diop]

He kept Toronto afloat when it looked like they were done for.

a. Lowry was always the best player on the Raptors
b. what does that have to do with HOF candidacy? Does kemba get into the HOF for keeping the Hornets "afloat"?

Debatable whether Lowry was the best player. DeRozan was always the focal point of the opponent's defense.

[Jadoogar]

He kept Toronto afloat when it looked like they were done for.

a. Lowry was always the best player on the Raptors
b. what does that have to do with HOF candidacy? Does kemba get into the HOF for keeping the Hornets "afloat"?

Debatable whether Lowry was the best player. DeRozan was always the focal point of the opponent's defense.

Ask any raptors' fan (and most advanced numbers) who the raptors' best player was during that run.

[kodo]

Assuming he'll play for this season and 1 more (and he'll probably play more than that), he'll have bypassed in scoring:
- Reggie Miller
- Jerry West
- Ewing
- Ray Allen
- Iverson
- Barkley
- Wade
- Baylor
- Drexler

Yeah he'll make the Hall. Bernard King and Mullin got into the Hall with less playoff production. Guys like Tom Chambers are being nominated. The NBA Hall is pretty relaxed.
I think it's worth noting that fans argue only from a stats and trophies standpoint. The actual committee takes into account leadership, sportsmanship, and being a good representative of the NBA as a factor.

[Hoppy1]

Put everyone in the Hall. It doesn't mean anything. You can score a lot of points, get a lot of rebounds, assists, etc. just by having a long mediocre career.

[longtallbrad]

He has zero case for being considered. A "long mediocre career" puts it best. He was never a top 5 player, never an MVP candidate, not even close to a perennial All-NBA guy.

[Mirotic12]

I always saw the HoF as profoundly impactful players to the history of NBA/basketball .. not just meeting a minimum threshold of stats

Yeah, the whole argument for him is longevity and total points scored. It's obviously not based on actually having any real impact in the sport.

[Johnny Bball]

He has zero case for being considered. A "long mediocre career" puts it best. He was never a top 5 player, never an MVP candidate, not even close to a perennial All-NBA guy.

You guys should just admit you don't understand what it takes to get in the HOF or don't understand basketball, because that's easier to defend than this.

He's a 6x allstar and 3 time all NBA and people call it mediocre and only longevity. Being an allstar for half your career is medicore? Its clueless.

[TheGeneral99]

He has zero case for being considered. A "long mediocre career" puts it best. He was never a top 5 player, never an MVP candidate, not even close to a perennial All-NBA guy.

Strange answer considering there are several players in the HOF who were never top 5 players, MVP candidates or 'perennial' all-NBA players.

Examples: Joe Dumars, Adrian Dantley, Dennis Johnson, Chris Mullen, Sampson, Richmond, Mo Cheeks, Vlade Divac, Chris Bosh, Toni Kukoc, Manu Ginobili, Tim Hardaway etc.

To say "zero case" means you are just ignorant of the facts.

[dhsilv2]

They likely are. Demar is a bit short. But my question was just if he was as good or better than the standard as a player. It seems you think he barely is while I think he's a pretty strong hall guy. Demar again of course, would be the worst player in the hall.

If that was your question, then I was misreading it. Like I said several times, I think he will get in. That means, at baseline, that he meets the standard for the actual Hall. Derozan too. I don't agree with the standard, but I expect both of them to be in the Hall. Demar might take a second vote or whatever, but if Mitch Richmond is in, I expect Demar to be at least eventually, and Lowry as well.

Man, I hope Demare doesn't. Having a guy not even a top 500 all time guy in the hall, would be terrible. Mitch was a good player, top 150 easy. Demare couldn't hold his jock strap.

[dhsilv2]

As far as his 3 point shooting, definitely an issue, but guys like Wade and Butler were pretty similar excellent mid-range guys who could never be consistently good from the outside.

We pretty much agree on most of that. I have no push back on your athleticism breakdown. He's a great athlete in the ways we most stereotypically think of basketball athletes (run! jump! dunk!) but a more thorough breakdown reveals Demar being held back more subtle areas due to his physical tools.

I do want to push back on the 3s though
Demar can only dream of being the 3-point shooter that Wade and Butler were/are. A casual glance at their career average attempts and percentages and you can make a case for Demar=Wade (but not Butler). Then Butler and Wade pretty consistently became closer to average 3-point shooters in the playoffs (both shoot 34%) where Demar gets way worse (21%). He's got a streak going now of being 0-10 on his most recent playoff 3-point attempts. Butler is a bad 3-point shooter, Wade is worse, Demar is basically off the map.

In terms of just looking at box-score stats in the regular season, you can squint and say that Demar looks only slightly worse than Jimmy or Wade overall for career. But then the playoffs come around and Demar's statistical footprint shrinks to that of a league average player (and his impact/on-off footprint suggests he was far worse than that).

WTF? No he doesn't!

Some basic box stats like BPM - Jimmy Peaked at an 8.7 vs a 3.1. They aren't remotely close using box stats beyond maybe PER which is a terrible box stat. And even then it's a 27 vs 24 which given PER is exponential, is a big gap.

[dhsilv2]

I'm not sure when people are going to catch on... you could project Derozan to be a lock for years to get into the HOF for years now. He cemented it last year. And given he's one of the best athletes in the NBA, he's likely playing a lot longer.

and he deserves to be in the HOF.

He's still on basketball reference's hall projection under 50%. He's by no means a lock.

[tsherkin]

Man, I hope Demare doesn't. Having a guy not even a top 500 all time guy in the hall, would be terrible. Mitch was a good player, top 150 easy. Demare couldn't hold his jock strap.

Demar's a 21.0, 4.4 and 4.0 guy on his career. Shooting splits 46.8 / 29.1 84.0. 55.3% TS, 100 TS+ (though 2020 on, he's averaged 104). Playoff dropper extraordinaire.

Mitch Richmond was a 21.0, 3.9 and 3.5 guy on 45.5 / 38.8 / 85.0. 55.7% TS, 105 TS+. Once matched Demar's career high of 107 and twice passed it (108 and 109).

Why is it you think Demar is so much better? His passing looks better over the past 5 or 6 years out of his career, granted, but the league environment is also a little different than it was in Richmond's career and Mitch was as efficient with a better shot in an earlier era. I don't think he'd match Demar's proficiency at drawing fouls, but he'd no doubt leverage that 3 quite a bit more in today's game (and minding that some of that is surely by the pulled-in line years but he was a 40.7% guy on 4 3PA/g the year before that happened and 38.9 on 4.8 per the year after, FWIW).

[Ito]

Prolly shouldn’t and won’t derozan been decent but nothin really stands out.. I’m leaning towards that no ring no HOF these days there’s a lot of talent and these players all b balling you can’t have them all in there without having a ring or the accolades

https://www.nba.com/stats/alltime-leaders

With the exception only 38 players ever have scored more? And he has years left to play?

Is the HOF only 30 players? This thread is just plain bad and raptors fans that never even understood what Derozan was are just tiring.

Again, the guy is a lock. And he is very likely to finish top 20 all time in scoring.

Nothing really stands out besides the points like op said I wouldn’t mind if he made it and prolly will there’s players with less accomplished in there he been consistent enough I guess

[dhsilv2]

Man, I hope Demare doesn't. Having a guy not even a top 500 all time guy in the hall, would be terrible. Mitch was a good player, top 150 easy. Demare couldn't hold his jock strap.

Demar's a 21.0, 4.4 and 4.0 guy on his career. Shooting splits 46.8 / 29.1 84.0. 55.3% TS, 100 TS+ (though 2020 on, he's averaged 104). Playoff dropper extraordinaire.

Mitch Richmond was a 21.0, 3.9 and 3.5 guy on 45.5 / 38.8 / 85.0. 55.7% TS, 105 TS+. Once matched Demar's career high of 107 and twice passed it (108 and 109).

Why is it you think Demar is so much better? His passing looks better over the past 5 or 6 years out of his career, granted, but the league environment is also a little different than it was in Richmond's career and Mitch was as efficient with a better shot in an earlier era. I don't think he'd match Demar's proficiency at drawing fouls, but he'd no doubt leverage that 3 quite a bit more in today's game (and minding that some of that is surely by the pulled-in line years but he was a 40.7% guy on 4 3PA/g the year before that happened and 38.9 on 4.8 per the year after, FWIW).

Well for starters the defensive gap is massive. Mitch was an ok defender. Demar over his career is among the worst starting wings ever. Demar certainly was able to maintain his play as he aged, heck, he might be better now than in his raptor days. But at their best I believe Mitch was a better offensive player and again the defensive gap is just too large.

[RoyceDa59]

He will but I don’t think he should.

I’d prefer the basketball HOF standards to be higher.

[tsherkin]

Well for starters the defensive gap is massive. Mitch was an ok defender. Demar over his career is among the worst starting wings ever. Demar certainly was able to maintain his play as he aged, heck, he might be better now than in his raptor days. But at their best I believe Mitch was a better offensive player and again the defensive gap is just too large.

Oh, I read that super backwards. You think Mitch > Demar, which is the same position I hold. Oops!