minimus wrote:A.) Nah, I am too low. But someone of FO/owners was high when traded for Gobert.
B.) I think you can play two PGs together, especially if they play on both ends of the floor, but it is difficult to play two one dimensional bigs.
C.Yes, I think that if trade for him he immediately fills following needs:
1) elite PoA defender. Yes, he struggled against bigger Jimmy Butler in playoffs, but it does not mean he is not elite PoA defender anymore. He is still big, smart, physical defender. Just watch how much technique he has in defensive arsenal
2) volume three point shooter. In 2022-23 he had career-high 6.1 3PA, made 38.4%. He REALLY likes pull-up threes, he made 102 (36%) pull up threes last season. He is 11th in NBA in made pull up threes last season. Pull up and step back threes is something he has added in his arsenal during his career. Also proportion of open and wide open shots increased to 57.7%, which is a sign of Jrue adjusting to more off ball, catch and shoot role in offense.
3) veteran presence. From what I read about him, he is a great, calming locker room presence
4) playmaking. Even though he is not a pure PG he has continuously improved as facilitator and decision maker.
D.) Fortunately, I can say now that Edwards is our franchise cornerstone.
E.) This concern is legit. However, Giannis and Lopez are very limited and specific bigs as well. It might help Jrue to integrate
F.) Championship ring. And the fact that Holiday plays on both ends of the floor
G.) In PHI and NOP Holiday did not have strong supporting cast.
H.) I watched some his training, workout videos. He looks very professional in preparing his body for NBA season. There is always risk when you invest in veteran guard, but I have not found any serious injuries that may affect him. Also as I stated before he is becoming more shooter, and there is a hope that his games ages well.
I.) I'd keep Conley even if we would trade for Holiday. Yes, Anderson is the only PF left, with Miller, Minott all being long-term prospects. This need should be definetely addressed. But finding PF should be easier that getting starting PG
J.) MIL collapsed as team because Giannis is elite as roaming defender. Holiday will be same elite PoA if Gobert control paint, while NAW and Edwards locking perimeter, and McDaniels roaming.
K.) KAT might be better player than Jrue. But if I think about whole context/baggage skills+mentality+fit+contract, I prefer Holiday. I am keeping believing that if MIN can complete transformation into defensive minded, tough nosed, physical team, all elements of whole chain (Gobert, Conley trade, Reid, NAW, Edwards, McDaniels development) will get massive boost in efficiency, productivity. Right now even with healthy Towns I dont see how we can can complete ANY transformation. We are not elite offensive team, we are not elite defensive team (although we are close, top10 in DRtg)
A.) Agreed, the Gobert trade was trash and arguably a move that has set us back and cornered us for the next 5 years.
B ) You can't play a 6'1 Conley next to a 6'4 Jrue at SG the wing you're about to extend for a 100 mill can't play the 4(Jaden). Ant has shown he can play the 3, but that's not who I'm concerned about. Maybe you can run this rotation for limited minutes but there's bound to be pretty high constraints.
Just because we have two one dimensional bigs doesn't mean it justifies a trade for Jrue. I agree it's potentially a situation that needs to change however.
Lastly, how long can you even run those limited lineups? Maybe 2, 3 years? Before Conley and Jrue are way too washed.
C.) If you're planning to play Jrue where Conley is I would agree with you, in fact I'd say that this is similar to my idea at the beginning of the off-season to go for Marcus Smart, who's a worse offensive player than Jrue. What that doesn't account for is I wanted White and picks as well.
I do also believe Ant will make the jump defensively this year, so it would be 3 elite PoA defenders.
As for his catch and shoot role, unfortunately given our poor roster construction and youth we need someone who can play that traditional PG role.
His 3's are a positive but not any more than KAT.
D.) Maybe, I think at the moment Ant and KAT are kind of tied. That being said KAT is more tradeable, I would never let go of Ant.
E.) Who?! Giannis may not have a bag but he can create his own shot. He takes a lot of the pressure of Jrue to playmake because he can also take those responsibilities. Brook Lopez is a straight bucket, his post game was elite when he was younger and he has a solid 3pt shot now. Those two are far from limited, Brook may need to be fed the ball but definitely not Giannis.
Gobert is caca compared to the two of those offensively. He doesn't have any offensive skill there are big AAU players with better hands, footwork, and jumpshots than him. To compare him to those two is a joke.
That being said maybe Jrue can throw decent passes and lobs to french stone hands.
F.) Pretty sure KAT would have a ring as a 3rd option on a team with equivalent players. KAT is far more offensively gifted than you give him credit for.
G.) KAT has had a solid supporting cast never, maybe this year finally, and even then definitely not one catered to him. Jrue was basically a perfect fit in MIL. And even through that he's gone to the playoffs almost as many times as Jrue had prior to his trade to the Bucks.
H.) That maybe true but somehow he always plays less than 70 games a year. KAT has 5 seasons of 70+ games and Jrue has 4. Jrue has 7 more seasons than KAT. And outside of 2020-2021 and this past year, Kat hasn't had any real injuries.
I.) Ah yes the PF position is so easy to trade for that neither of our bigs has played with a real PF consistently for most of their careers. So easy to trade for that we have had great PF options next to KAT this whole time right? What about Rudy, he also had great prototypical 4's and stretch 4's playing next to him. I'd argue that it's one of the most difficult positions to trade for with the least consistent talent pool in the past 10 years. We snagged a serviceable PG and PF for the past season but let's not pretend that it has been easy at either position. We literally got Gobert because we thought it would be easier to get a center to play big than find a big 4.
J.) Arguable, especially if you want to put Conley at the 1. And who guards the big tough centers, that's still and issue? Who do you sub out what rotation does that look like?
K.) I'd argue we don't know what this team looks like with Towns.
We were an elite offensive team before we traded for the worst starting offensive player in the league. I genuinely think there's a better chance that if we can work out a real motion offense, not this flats crap that Finch keeps running, we can turn this boat around. We need more delay action, more Chicago action, it would be nice to see empty side plays with any combination of our players, basically anything but this offense Finch is running.
I'd argue we have all the pieces we need and if you wanted to trade Conley and picks and some young player (NOT NAZ) for Jrue, I'd be game.
I love the trade in that players can't have it both ways - sign a big contract than turn around and wants to only play for one team.
