Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[wewillnevertank]

What Bobby Marks doesn't take into account is the following:

Kevin Porter is going to be convicted of a crime.
He is going to be sentenced to time in prison.

That will render his contract null & void.

That could take years and might very well be after his garubtees are due to be paid and after the season takes place. That's doesn't help their cap hold not or even next year when having a contract to move to get players in when they are over the cap is important. I get what you're saying ! I do. But I believe moving him is best.

Criminal trials don't take years. In any case I don't see any team trading for him no matter what picks he's wrapped in. Nor will the NBA want that.

Wait & see. Meanwhile, let's drop the subject please.

This. No amount of capital or personnel gymnastics will erase the fact that trading for an alleged abuser is just straight-up gross. Call it virtue signaling if you want, but I'm not rooting for a team with KPJ on it.

[9 and 20]

wewillnevertank is a great name. Definitely one of Terd's greatest hits.

[payitforward]

wewillnevertank is a great name. Definitely one of Terd's greatest hits.

Yes -- & a series of useful posts too! Welcome -- glad to have you aboard!

[wewillnevertank]

wewillnevertank is a great name. Definitely one of Terd's greatest hits.

Yes -- & a series of useful posts too! Welcome -- glad to have you aboard!

You guys are too kind! Happy to be here. Wish I had known about this place 15-20 years ago! lol

[wewillnevertank]

BTW, allegedly Windhorst said Boston is willing to offer multiple first round picks to get Brogdon traded. Shamet and Wright for Brogdon and multiple picks works.

Osman Baig suggested a version of this recently. (One pick instead of multiple). I'm not opposed to it, even with Brogdon's medical status. I think it makes more sense at the deadline than preseason at this point, though.

[gambitx777]

BTW, allegedly Windhorst said Boston is willing to offer multiple first round picks to get Brogdon traded. Shamet and Wright for Brogdon and multiple picks works.

Osman Baig suggested a version of this recently. (One pick instead of multiple). I'm not opposed to it, even with Brogdon's medical status. I think it makes more sense at the deadline than preseason at this point, though.

I think doing it now would be better cuz you could rehab brogon to move him to someone desperate for a pg.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[JayTWill]

I recently proposed a deal on the Trade board and i'm interested in getting other Wizards fans' opinions. The original proposal was -

Knicks out - Quickley, Fournier, Roby
Knicks in - Avdija, Gallinari, Young, Flynn, 2026 Raptors Second Round Pick

Wizards out - Avdija, Wright, Shamet, Gallinari
Wizards in - Quickley, Fournier, Porter, Roby

Raptors out - Porter, Young, Flynn, 2026 Second Round Pick
Raptors in - Wright, Shamet

Seeing as the Knicks currently have a lawsuit filed against the Raptors and obvious friction I revised the deal to be
Quickley, Fournier, and Roby for Avdija, Gallinari and Shamet

This deal would leave the Wizards thin at the forward spots but maybe the Wizards could make a deal directly with the Raptors offering Wright for one of their many forwards. Most Wizards fans seemed to prefer the potential of Deni over IQ while Knicks fans felt IQ was currently too good of a player to trade and gamble on the upside of a Deni. Thoughts?

[doclinkin]

Seeing as the Knicks currently have a lawsuit filed against the Raptors and obvious friction I revised the deal to be
Quickley, Fournier, and Roby for Avdija, Gallinari and Shamet

This deal would leave the Wizards thin at the forward spots but maybe the Wizards could make a deal directly with the Raptors offering Wright for one of their many forwards. Most Wizards fans seemed to prefer the potential of Deni over IQ while Knicks fans felt IQ was currently too good of a player to trade and gamble on the upside of a Deni. Thoughts?

Why for the Wizards? Consider that we just traded for Tyus Jones and Jordan Poole as ballhandling guards. The team is excited about the upside of Poole hoping he can reclaim his skills from the championship year, before the total team meltdown of last year. They are likewise high on the prospect of Jones finally running a team as the starting floor general. So, Quickley improves us how? We jettison our best defender to create a logjam at the 1-2 spot, devaluing all.

https://stathead.com/tiny/ws8gQ

As a rebuilding team the Wizards want draft picks. With too many players on the roster it would be useful to package consolidation trades of 2-for-1 or 3-for-1. They are high on Deni as a defender, with the idea that historically it is easier to add a jumper than it is to teach advanced team defense to a young player. Any trades with him as a centerpiece would take that into account.

[JayTWill]

Seeing as the Knicks currently have a lawsuit filed against the Raptors and obvious friction I revised the deal to be
Quickley, Fournier, and Roby for Avdija, Gallinari and Shamet

This deal would leave the Wizards thin at the forward spots but maybe the Wizards could make a deal directly with the Raptors offering Wright for one of their many forwards. Most Wizards fans seemed to prefer the potential of Deni over IQ while Knicks fans felt IQ was currently too good of a player to trade and gamble on the upside of a Deni. Thoughts?

Why for the Wizards? Consider that we just traded for Tyus Jones and Jordan Poole as ballhandling guards. The team is excited about the upside of Poole hoping he can reclaim his skills from the championship year, before the total team meltdown of last year. They are likewise high on the prospect of Jones finally running a team as the starting floor general. So, Quickley improves us how? We jettison our best defender to create a logjam at the 1-2 spot, devaluing all.

https://stathead.com/tiny/ws8gQ

As a rebuilding team the Wizards want draft picks. With too many players on the roster it would be useful to package consolidation trades of 2-for-1 or 3-for-1. They are high on Deni as a defender, with the idea that historically it is easier to add a jumper than it is to teach advanced team defense to a young player. Any trades with him as a centerpiece would take that into account.

I thought that it was unlikely that with Jones being 28 next year that he would want to re-sign to a Wizards team with a very uncertain future and no real building blocks in the prime of his career. Unless the organization was willing to give him a short term overpay such as the Rockets did with VanVleet I think he could find better options in free agency such as the Spurs. IQ could be a starting guard going forward or worst case scenario he is a 6th man that can score, defend and rebound while adding a two-way abilty that can fit next to anyone which the Wizards desperately lack. It would guarantee the front office's new draft pick Coulibaly significant playing time without creating another Deni vs Rui dynamic.

[badinage]

Seeing as the Knicks currently have a lawsuit filed against the Raptors and obvious friction I revised the deal to be
Quickley, Fournier, and Roby for Avdija, Gallinari and Shamet

This deal would leave the Wizards thin at the forward spots but maybe the Wizards could make a deal directly with the Raptors offering Wright for one of their many forwards. Most Wizards fans seemed to prefer the potential of Deni over IQ while Knicks fans felt IQ was currently too good of a player to trade and gamble on the upside of a Deni. Thoughts?

Why for the Wizards? Consider that we just traded for Tyus Jones and Jordan Poole as ballhandling guards. The team is excited about the upside of Poole hoping he can reclaim his skills from the championship year, before the total team meltdown of last year. They are likewise high on the prospect of Jones finally running a team as the starting floor general. So, Quickley improves us how? We jettison our best defender to create a logjam at the 1-2 spot, devaluing all.

https://stathead.com/tiny/ws8gQ

As a rebuilding team the Wizards want draft picks. With too many players on the roster it would be useful to package consolidation trades of 2-for-1 or 3-for-1. They are high on Deni as a defender, with the idea that historically it is easier to add a jumper than it is to teach advanced team defense to a young player. Any trades with him as a centerpiece would take that into account.

I thought that it was unlikely that with Jones being 28 next year that he would want to re-sign to a Wizards team with a very uncertain future and no real building blocks in the prime of his career. Unless the organization was willing to give him a short term overpay such as the Rockets did with VanVleet I think he could find better options in free agency such as the Spurs. IQ could be a starting guard going forward or worst case scenario he is a 6th man that can score, defend and rebound while adding a two-way abilty that can fit next to anyone which the Wizards desperately lack. It would guarantee the front office's new draft pick Coulibaly significant playing time without creating another Deni vs Rui dynamic.

Also? Deni is not up for grabs. We love him, and want to see him continue to bloom into the player we envision.

[doclinkin]

I thought that it was unlikely that with Jones being 28 next year that he would want to re-sign to a Wizards team with a very uncertain future and no real building blocks in the prime of his career. Unless the organization was willing to give him a short term overpay such as the Rockets did with VanVleet I think he could find better options in free agency such as the Spurs.

Oh sure, sibling rivalry at its best, he could move right in and take his brother's job. That'd make for interesting Thanksgiving dinners.

IQ could be a starting guard going forward or worst case scenario he is a 6th man that can score, defend and rebound while adding a two-way abilty that can fit next to anyone which the Wizards desperately lack. It would guarantee the front office's new draft pick Coulibaly significant playing time without creating another Deni vs Rui dynamic

No knock on Quickley. I like the cat and have been curious why you all have been desperately shopping him. I don't follow the team politics or thought processes of Knicks fans.

But adding a 3rd potential starting guard is not a priority (never mind Delon Wright, Jared Butler, and Ryan Rollins at the same position). I think they like their chances to sign Jones, if he has a good year starting here. The team has a raft of expiring contracts, cap space going forward. I expect this ownership group would pay to keep him if the money is the primary issue. The presence of a game tactician like Tyus Jones goes a long way to improving the learning curve and versatility of Bilal and whichever rookies show up over the next few years. If we had a ball-distributing floor leader last year, we likely could have gotten better value out of Rui. No controversy.

I don't hate the idea of a guy like IQ. He's young has upside. IF it weren't for a young and developing guy, but for players like Gallo etc. Swapping out late career veterans for developing prospects is something they are likely to do. But the team is hunting Draft picks, talent consolidation, and a starting center. Come back with that.

Adding more guards while taking away our best defender, young talent, is a misunderstanding of what the team is looking for in a rebuild.

[JayTWill]

I thought that it was unlikely that with Jones being 28 next year that he would want to re-sign to a Wizards team with a very uncertain future and no real building blocks in the prime of his career. Unless the organization was willing to give him a short term overpay such as the Rockets did with VanVleet I think he could find better options in free agency such as the Spurs.

Oh sure, sibling rivalry at its best, he could move right in and take his brother's job. That'd make for interesting Thanksgiving dinners.

IQ could be a starting guard going forward or worst case scenario he is a 6th man that can score, defend and rebound while adding a two-way abilty that can fit next to anyone which the Wizards desperately lack. It would guarantee the front office's new draft pick Coulibaly significant playing time without creating another Deni vs Rui dynamic

No knock on Quickley. I like the cat and have been curious why you all have been desperately shopping him. I don't follow the team politics or thought processes of Knicks fans. Adding a 3rd potential starting guard is not a priority (never mind Delon Wright, Jared Butler, and Ryan Rollins at the same position). I think they like their chances to sign Jones, if he has a good year starting here. The team has a raft of expiring contracts, cap space going forward. I expect this ownership group would pay to keep him if the money is the primary issue. The presence of a game tactician like Tyus Jones goes a long way to improving the learning curve and versatility of Bilal and whichever rookies show up over the next few years. If we had a ball-distributing floor leader last year, we likely could have gotten better value out of Rui. No controversy.

I don't hate the idea of a guy like IQ. He's young has upside. IF it weren't for a young and developing guy, but for players like Gallo etc. Swapping out late career veterans for developing prospects is something they are likely to do. But the team is hunting Draft picks, talent consolidation, and a starting center. Come back with that.

Adding more guards while taking away our best defender, young talent, is a misunderstanding of what the team is looking for in a rebuild.

The Spurs, Magic, Jazz, Hornets, Pistons, 76ers and Wizards I believe are projected to have cap space next year. All of those teams could use Jones in some capacity and most of them would be able to offer him a starting job. Many things can change in a year but do you think there is a good chance he would re-sign with the Wizards?

Edit: Did not see the second part of your response before I responded. Personally I feel the other teams are better options for Jones going forward. The young teams have better foundations with more upside and playing next to a small ball dominant guard that does not defend in Poole is probably not the ideal backcourt pairing for him.

As far as IQ i'm not sure the Knicks are desperately shopping him but the they currently have Brunson Grimes, DiVincenzo and even Barrett and Hart could get minutes at the guard spots of necessary but they have a gaping hole at the back up 4 and need a perimeter defender with more size. All of these players are locked into contracts for multiple years where as for the Wizards I could easily see Poole as 1/2 and Kispert as a 2/3 being only rotational level guards left on the team next year and they are a terrible defensive pairing. IQ could help balance that out and fill in the gaps.

I like many of the things Deni shows on the defensive end but I don't think he or anyone else on the roster will be able to make up for how many poor defenders that are in the rotation. I expect the Wizards to be bad defensively no matter what and it may be better to just lean in to being good on the offensive end since many of your core pieces have more upside there. In my mind Deni was a better fit with the Knicks bench unit of Divincenzo, Hart, Hartenstein and Grimes mixed in. Everyone can defend and pass while Grimes, DD and Hart (on limited volume) can shoot without any of them needing to dominate the ball. Deni doesn't really fit offensively into the Wizards starting lineup. I felt he had a better chance of playing to his strengths on the Knicks and developing.

Anyway, I know it's difficult for any fan base to move on from one of their drafted players on a rookie contract unless he is a complete bust. I thought offering another young player that is more polished at this moment would be tempting but I guess not.

[doclinkin]

The Spurs, Magic, Jazz, Hornets, Pistons, 76ers and Wizards I believe are projected to have cap space next year. All of those teams could use Jones in some capacity and most of them would be able to offer him a starting job.

Actually this underscores the Wiz' position.

The Magic have what 5 point guards? Fultz, Anthony, Black, Suggs. Ok 4 plus Wagner who plays best on ball. Not the most attractive option for a free agent PG.

Pistons have Cade Anthony and Jaden Ivey as their ballhandling guards, just added Ausar Thompson who is best with the ball in hands, and traded with us for Monte Morris. Again, a lead Point is not their priority.

Tyus is not taking the ball away from Ball in Charlotte.

Philly is a possibility. A contender if Embiid doesn't get frustrated and quit. They play Maxey at the 1, which is not an argument for Tyus in a starting role. They'd be really small if you put him next to Maxey. But Embiid would love playing next to Tyus. They're dysfunctional right now with the Harden situation, remains to be seen how that plays out this year. Currently they have Pat Bev sharing that spot.

I think the Wiz couid make a better argument for a guaranteed starting job than any of the above.

Too the team has loaded up on outside shooters at all positions. Aiming to play fast. If the money is the same, and no finals contender comes in with a big trade mid year, I think the team can make the case at least for a fun style of play. Quickley would be a good fit, if we hadn't just traded for 2 players who are of equivalent or better talent, one way or the other.

[JayTWill]

The Spurs, Magic, Jazz, Hornets, Pistons, 76ers and Wizards I believe are projected to have cap space next year. All of those teams could use Jones in some capacity and most of them would be able to offer him a starting job.

Actually this underscores the Wiz' position.

The Magic have what 5 point guards? Fultz, Anthony, Black, Suggs. Ok 4 plus Wagner who plays best on ball. Not the most attractive option for a free agent PG.

Pistons have Cade Anthony and Jaden Ivey as their ballhandling guards, just added Ausar Thompson who is best with the ball in hands, and traded with us for Monte Morris. Again, a lead Point is not their priority.

Tyus is not taking the ball away from Ball in Charlotte.

Philly is a possibility. A contender if Embiid doesn't get frustrated and quit. They play Maxey at the 1, which is not an argument for Tyus in a starting role. They'd be really small if you put him next to Maxey. But Embiid would love playing next to Tyus. They're dysfunctional right now with the Harden situation, remains to be seen how that plays out this year. Currently they have Pat Bev sharing that spot.

I think the Wiz couid make a better argument for a guaranteed starting job than any of the above.

Too the team has loaded up on outside shooters at all positions. Aiming to play fast. If the money is the same, and no finals contender comes in with a big trade mid year, I think the team can make the case at least for a fun style of play. Quickley would be a good fit, if we hadn't just traded for 2 players who are of equivalent or better talent, one way or the other.

For the Magic Fultz is an unrestricted free-agent and Anthony is in the last year of his rookie contract. Both of them could easily be gone next year. A 3 guard rotation of Suggs, Black Jones could work perfectly fine and they could cover for his defensive deficiencies while he provides a steady veteran presence for a young team on the upswing.

For the Pistons Morris could be gone next year too but Jones may want a team that can offer him a bigger role although their future looks much brighter than the Wizards at the moment.

For Charlotte many people in the fan base have wanted to move on from Rozier for a while and have complained about his inabilty to run the team when Ball is off the floor. Jones would be a great replacement for Rozier. Ball is a big guard that Jones could play next to while handling the point guard responsibilities full time when he is off the court.

For Philly they would provide a better chance at winning immediately and Maxey is far from a true point guard right now. I'm sure they would be interested in a player like Jones.

I just can't imagine starting for a Wizards team that may not have fully bottomed out yet would be very appealing in the prime years of his career especially as a small guard that may not have many years to play after 30.

[doclinkin]

For the Magic Fultz is an unrestricted free-agent and Anthony is in the last year of his rookie contract. Both of them could easily be gone next year. A 3 guard rotation of Suggs, Black Jones could work perfectly fine

For the Pistons Morris could be gone next year too but Jones may want a team that can offer him a bigger role

For Charlotte many people in the fan base have wanted to move on from Rozier for a while and have complained about his inabilty to run the team when Ball is off the floor. Jones would be a great replacement for Rozier. Ball is a big guard that Jones could play next to

For Philly they would provide a better chance at winning immediately and Maxey is far from a true point guard right now. I'm sure they would be interested in a player like Jones.

A ton of pixels have burned in service to the idea that Tyus Jones finally gets the starting job he's been seeking. He has played behind and with a big guard in Ja Morant. He is a lead guard. None of the teams you cite are offering that role. He may go elsewhere hunting a ring instead, but the teams you cite are not in that picture. Philly, but playing next to the 6'2" Maxey is not a great fit.

If that was the competition I like the Wiz' chances, is all. We offer a no questions starting job plus the same wads of cash the others have. This will be his team and he can shape its future.

I think they will try to extend him, but if he is uninterested and wants to chase a ring right now, then they will look for a trade mid-season to a contender who is willing to bid high. They will run with Poole at the 1 and be fine with it. Still looking for picks etc.

But I guess you had no ideas or offers other than Quickley. And are uninterested in what the team actually needs. Don't feel like a counteroffer. So okay. You have your answer. Quickley for Deni is not a deal -- unless and until a different trade happens that opens up space at the 1.

[JayTWill]

For the Magic Fultz is an unrestricted free-agent and Anthony is in the last year of his rookie contract. Both of them could easily be gone next year. A 3 guard rotation of Suggs, Black Jones could work perfectly fine

For the Pistons Morris could be gone next year too but Jones may want a team that can offer him a bigger role

For Charlotte many people in the fan base have wanted to move on from Rozier for a while and have complained about his inabilty to run the team when Ball is off the floor. Jones would be a great replacement for Rozier. Ball is a big guard that Jones could play next to

For Philly they would provide a better chance at winning immediately and Maxey is far from a true point guard right now. I'm sure they would be interested in a player like Jones.

A ton of pixels have burned in service to the idea that Tyus Jones finally gets the starting job he's been seeking. He has played behind and with a big guard in Ja Morant. He is a lead guard. None of the teams you cite are offering that role. He may go elsewhere hunting a ring instead, but the teams you cite are not in that picture. Philly, but playing next to the 6'2" Maxey is not a great fit.

If that was the competition I like the Wiz' chances, is all. We offer a no questions starting job plus the same wads of cash the others have. This will be his team and he can shape its future.

I think they will try to extend him, but if he is uninterested and wants to chase a ring right now, then they will look for a trade mid-season to a contender who is willing to bid high. They will run with Poole at the 1 and be fine with it. Still looking for picks etc.

But I guess you had no ideas or offers other than Quickley. And are uninterested in what the team actually needs. Don't feel like a counteroffer. So okay. You have your answer. Quickley for Deni is not a deal -- unless and until a different trade happens that opens up space at the 1.

I was simply providing counterarguments to why Jones would want to leave and not even including other ways he could leave like other teams opening capspace or his willingness to take the non-tax payer mid-level exception starting at $13 million from many playoff teams where he could start. This is actually the second version of a trade proposal for Deni. My initial offer was based around the Wizards receiving control of their first round pick back for Deni but most Wizards fans believed that pick would never convey as a first round pick. Maybe your opinion differs or maybe you will agree that the Wizards will still be in the bottom 8 teams in 2026 while also telling me that Jones would love to play for a team that is still in the bottom half of the lottery 3 years from now. So I will stop burning pixels.

[payitforward]

We have two too many players. Hence, a trade that gives us fewer & better players for more & less good ones is inherently appealing. Ditto if part of the value we get back is in picks rather than players.

At this early point in our rebuild, OTOH, I don't think it much matters whether our roster balance is ideal. Basically, we are at the point of testing for quality. Period.

Thus, I'd love to pick up Quickley alone in return for multiple players. But, I doubt the Wizards will want to trade Deni or Jones, so I can't think of a trade that would meet a significant goal for the Knicks. Would I give Wright, Shamet & Gallinari for Quickley? Sure! But I can't see any reason for the Knicks to be interested in that deal.

[gesa2]

Quickley is better now and predicts to stay more valuable than Deni, who has stalled out as a prospect (not saying he can’t get back on track, I hope he does. But 3/4s who can’t shoot don’t make it in the league. He’s going to have to shoot a lot better or start playing small ball playmaker 5 this year)
Quickley also fits our timeline better than Jones. He is likely to be a solid starter in the NBA.
But as Nate has always said you don’t rebuild by getting your 3rd-5th best players of the future first. That makes you mediocre instead of bad and hurts your ability to find tentpole stars.We need to take lots of big swings, and Deni is still that, even though I wouldn’t bet on it working out.
So I’d rather keep Deni and take the small chance that he really hits than go for a better mean outcome with less variance.

[badinage]

Quickley is better now and predicts to stay more valuable than Deni, who has stalled out as a prospect (not saying he can’t get back on track, I hope he does. But 3/4s who can’t shoot don’t make it in the league. He’s going to have to shoot a lot better or start playing small ball playmaker 5 this year)
Quickley also fits our timeline better than Jones. He is likely to be a solid starter in the NBA.
But as Nate has always said you don’t rebuild by getting your 3rd-5th best players of the future first. That makes you mediocre instead of bad and hurts your ability to find tentpole stars.We need to take lots of big swings, and Deni is still that, even though I wouldn’t bet on it working out.
So I’d rather keep Deni and take the small chance that he really hits than go for a better mean outcome with less variance.

I don’t see “stalled out.” I saw growth last year. Along with inconsistency that is part of some players’ development.

The shot has to come. Sure.

But the defense — so many of the defensive metrics say he’s a terrific defender; a defender who affects the game.

He also rebounds.

He’s not a small forward, he’s not a 3 and D, he’s not. He’s a 4, who can do 3-like things and even 1-like things.

That’s a player to continue to unlock, not give up on.

[mhd]

My latest:

Knicks trade Fourner (team option)+future Wizards 1st (currently top 12 protected in 2024, top 10 protected 2025, top 8 protected 2026, if not conveyed, then converts to Wiz 2026 2nd & Wiz 2027 2nd) for Olynyk (expiring)+Gallo (expiring)

Wizards trade: Johnny Davis for Fourner (team option for 2025)+their pick back

Jazz trade: Olynyk (expiring) for Johnny Davis

Why for the Knicks?
1). That future Wiz pick probably doesn't convey as they will be terrible for the foreseeable future. They decide to beef up and get some needed stretch bigs in Gallo & Olynyk (who both are expiring).

Why for the Jazz?
1). With Collins, Lauri, and Kessler, Olynyk is going to be the 4th big. They take a chance on a former #10 overall pick while also saving roughly 7.1 million in real cash (difference in salary of Olynyk vs Davis).

Why for the Wizards?
1). They get their pick back which allows future flexibility in trades. With Poole entrenched as the SG for the foreseeable future, Bilal as a recent 1st rounder by the new regime, they have no loyalty to Davis (who was drafted by fired GM Tommy Shepard). They can use Fournier in future trades potentially as well if they pick up his team option.