O'Connor: The Magic Should Trade for Jrue Holiday

[eyriq]

A Holiday/Suggs back court would be a sight to behold

[Skybox]

I would much rather see Holiday at PG and Fultz being problem on some other team .

Portland will still want to develop Scoot Henderson AND Shaedon Sharpe. Orlando would be a better team if Fultz, G-Harris, Anthony, Okeke and two draft picks were converted to Jrue Holiday and Anfernee Simons.

I would get excited at watching those two guards maximizes F-Wagner and Banchero.

Just imagine:
Holiday/Black/some-dude
Simons/Suggs/Howard
F-Wagner/Ingles/Houstan
Banchero/Isaac
CarterM-Wagner/Bitadze

That is a sleeper team to make noise in this year's playoffs, in my opinion.

..

Absolutely - that was my premise. Simons might still be available as Sharpe moves into the starting spot next to Scoot. Harris is "good enough and priced right" as a bench SG (vs Simons $$)...grabbing Simons with Jrue obviously costs more but also diffuses some of the risk of Jrue alone...I also think Jrue isn't necessarily leaving THAT lineup if he gets paid. Maybe-not definitely...I think if he hated the idea, he'd tell the world PRIOR to the trade. All I'd want from him is a fair look at what ORL's looking like - if we fail the eye test, that's on us.

I am a big fan of Simons or Herro to bomb from deep and run PnR as a combo guard with Paolo & Franz. Jrue is exactly what Suggs should be working towards becoming. People classifying Jrue strictly as a PG aren't on target...he's made it clear in his career that he doesn't want to spend too many mpg on-ball. We'd have all kinds of interesting lineups with him and Simons (with Black and Suggs). We shouldn't be afraid to make a bold move even if it means tearing apart our existing mediocre (or worse) young backcourt for guys that have shown they can play.

[bigdogdylan5]

Portland isn’t going to wants Fultz for the same reason we would have moved off him if we drafted Scoot they can’t play together.

I just don’t get any of this if you wanted to bring in a veteran to accelerate this puppy fine but you don’t draft a third PG and another 2/3 in the damn draft. You move those picks for established veterans. There is absolutely no reason to push any of our chips in. We drafted a guard 5th, we have our starting PG for the last couple of years incrementally improving, we have another that had success in his role last year and looks to still be improving, and we just drafted one 6th. Our stars are 20 and 22 let’s be patient and let these young guys cook.

[VFX]

Portland isn’t going to wants Fultz for the same reason we would have moved off him if we drafted Scoot they can’t play together.

I just don’t get any of this if you wanted to bring in a veteran to accelerate this puppy fine but you don’t draft a third PG and another 2/3 in the damn draft. You move those picks for established veterans. There is absolutely no reason to push any of our chips in. We drafted a guard 5th, we have our starting PG for the last couple of years incrementally improving, we have another that had success in his role last year and looks to still be improving, and we just drafted one 6th. Our stars are 20 and 22 let’s be patient and let these young guys cook.

Fultz would back up scoot as a sixth man, which is what he is.

He isn’t playing next to Scoot as they have Simons and Sharpe.

Hypothetically, you are bringing Jrue in for 1 season to mentor Cole/Suggs/Black who are 23, 22, and 19 with someone that has championship experience. You are consolidating salary cap and assets. It isn’t a “push your chips in” move.

Injury riddled Isaac, expiring Fultz, and a late frp from contending Denver isn’t a war chest.

[YosemiteSam]

This summer feels like a loop.

Someone proposes a speculative trade for player X. Might be realistic, or might be a flyer, but it clearly has a pov for a specific player. Then the same 2-3 posters reply with some version from of that player in a multi team trade to get us Tyler Herro. Then another poster latches on to that but instead says let’s do the same but for Simons. Lather, rinse, repeat. I think we are all clear which of you want Herro or Simons. Put it in your sig and please stop pushing your personal agenda into every thread.

Also, Herro isn’t that good to earn the level of desire some have on here for him. Overrated.

[Audi]

This summer feels like a loop.

Someone proposes a speculative trade for player X. Might be realistic, or might be a flyer, but it clearly has a pov for a specific player. Then the same 2-3 posters reply with some version from of that player in a multi team trade to get us Tyler Herro. Then another poster latches on to that but instead says let’s do the same but for Simons. Lather, rinse, repeat. I think we are all clear which of you want Herro or Simons. Put it in your sig and please stop pushing your personal agenda into every thread.

Also, Herro isn’t that good to earn the level of desire some have on here for him. Overrated.

Key here is: it's summer. It's either rehashed stuff or the board is dead.

[Skybox]

This summer feels like a loop.

Someone proposes a speculative trade for player X. Might be realistic, or might be a flyer, but it clearly has a pov for a specific player. Then the same 2-3 posters reply with some version from of that player in a multi team trade to get us Tyler Herro. Then another poster latches on to that but instead says let’s do the same but for Simons. Lather, rinse, repeat. I think we are all clear which of you want Herro or Simons. Put it in your sig and please stop pushing your personal agenda into every thread.

Also, Herro isn’t that good to earn the level of desire some have on here for him. Overrated.

Feel free to just block so you don't have to hear trade ideas on trade threads.

Certain guys suddenly, for a variety of reasons , become available when they shouldn't...good GMs pounce on opportunity. When another team chases an A+ and it means moving a B+ to get them - that should be a trigger. Especially when teams are on different timelines and priorities. Win-now teams going all-in should be a great source for young prospects who they choose to sacrifice for immediate ring-chasing. There's only a handful of "hot" guys that are in play. Trading for Herro, for example, wasn't really a thing until he became fodder for a Dame trade. We could've (maybe) "swiped him" by getting MIA what they need to get Dame, even if it's a good price for Herro. Sharpe makes Simons MAYBE gettable. We have some large expiring guys who shouldn't be in our long term plans and an extra first...sometimes opportunities and the means to grab them occur at the same time...Makes more sense to see that beaten to the ground and worked over in one summer than just randomly suggesting "we should get Giannis" or whatever player we admire.

[Skin]

Nobody here wanted Dame because he was 33 years old. Now people want Jrue... throwing all the same names and draft picks out as an offer. LOL

[Skybox]

Nobody here wanted Dame because he was 33 years old. Now people want Jrue... throwing all the same names and draft picks out as an offer. LOL

I think you get Jrue for less than half the trade value of Dame...and, if you resign him, half of Dame's salary

[Skin]

Nobody here wanted Dame because he was 33 years old. Now people want Jrue... throwing all the same names and draft picks out as an offer. LOL

I think you get Jrue for less than half the trade value of Dame...and, if you resign him, half of Dame's salary

Who is gonna help us win a championship? The goal of winning this whole thing is often overlooked in the search for marginal upgrades.

[bigdogdylan5]

This summer feels like a loop.

Someone proposes a speculative trade for player X. Might be realistic, or might be a flyer, but it clearly has a pov for a specific player. Then the same 2-3 posters reply with some version from of that player in a multi team trade to get us Tyler Herro. Then another poster latches on to that but instead says let’s do the same but for Simons. Lather, rinse, repeat. I think we are all clear which of you want Herro or Simons. Put it in your sig and please stop pushing your personal agenda into every thread.

Also, Herro isn’t that good to earn the level of desire some have on here for him. Overrated.

Key here is: it's summer. It's either rehashed stuff or the board is dead.

Training camp is about to kick off we are about a month away from season kicking off I kinda want to get ready for that. Instead we’re talking about taking a U turn with our plan for an aging 3rd best player on a title team who will be retired in 2-3 years when Franz and Paolo hit their prime and are ready to rock and roll. I think we should focus on the players and the decisions that will need to be made to see who will be their supporting players. This trade would be perfect when we are the 4/5 seed looking to take next step.

[eyriq]

This summer feels like a loop.

Someone proposes a speculative trade for player X. Might be realistic, or might be a flyer, but it clearly has a pov for a specific player. Then the same 2-3 posters reply with some version from of that player in a multi team trade to get us Tyler Herro. Then another poster latches on to that but instead says let’s do the same but for Simons. Lather, rinse, repeat. I think we are all clear which of you want Herro or Simons. Put it in your sig and please stop pushing your personal agenda into every thread.

Also, Herro isn’t that good to earn the level of desire some have on here for him. Overrated.

Key here is: it's summer. It's either rehashed stuff or the board is dead.

Training camp is about to kick off we are about a month away from season kicking off I kinda want to get ready for that. Instead we’re talking about taking a U turn with our plan for an aging 3rd best player on a title team who will be retired in 2-3 years when Franz and Paolo hit their prime and are ready to rock and roll. I think we should focus on the players and the decisions that will need to be made to see who will be their supporting players. This trade would be perfect when we are the 4/5 seed looking to take next step.

I agree with your POV 100%.

[Residual-Heat]

If you're in "save assets for someone else" camp. Let me ask you this.. What assets are we talking about here? I dont think anyone is talking about offering 4 1sts for Jrue. If its a 1st ( most likely out of the lottery) and the Denver pick (most likely 25-30 pick), thats nothing. Fultz has no real value in a trade, and neither does Harris.

Do you want to know what kills trade value? Drafting two lottery picks and giving them no playing time or sending them to the g-league.

[pepe1991]

This summer feels like a loop.

Someone proposes a speculative trade for player X. Might be realistic, or might be a flyer, but it clearly has a pov for a specific player. Then the same 2-3 posters reply with some version from of that player in a multi team trade to get us Tyler Herro. Then another poster latches on to that but instead says let’s do the same but for Simons. Lather, rinse, repeat. I think we are all clear which of you want Herro or Simons. Put it in your sig and please stop pushing your personal agenda into every thread.

Also, Herro isn’t that good to earn the level of desire some have on here for him. Overrated.

Key here is: it's summer. It's either rehashed stuff or the board is dead.

Training camp is about to kick off we are about a month away from season kicking off I kinda want to get ready for that. Instead we’re talking about taking a U turn with our plan for an aging 3rd best player on a title team who will be retired in 2-3 years when Franz and Paolo hit their prime and are ready to rock and roll. I think we should focus on the players and the decisions that will need to be made to see who will be their supporting players. This trade would be perfect when we are the 4/5 seed looking to take next step.

In this day and age you probably will never become 4th seed with homegrown talent tho. 4th seed are Cavs ( Mitchell) and Suns ( Durant ).

Also many superstars are developed in competitive enviroment that didn't hindered their development, rather opposite, forged them into stars.
Jokic's team won 40 games in year 2, 46 in year 3.
Brown and Tatum were developed on contenders.
Very few players are Lebron type , who can carry own team deep in playoffs at early age, matter of fact Luka is only guy i can recall doing so in past 5-8 years.

I'm not really sold onto idea Jrue is that guy, but i'm terrified of idea that Franz Wagner this, Banchero next year will be making near $100M over next 6,7 years while spending years playing for nothing. What if they aren't that guys ? What's atlernative? Blow up roster again?

If anything, making playoffs this and next year could at least give you insight on what you have. Instad of investing into future blindfolded.

Every time i watch Pelicans i see worst case scenario for rebuild. They are too good to not get resigned on crazy money, and not good enough to win games. Basically Pelicans are trapped between bloated salary of those two and fact they can't opt to rebuild again, after winning/trading for 1# pick, 2# pick, 2# pick.

[bigdogdylan5]

If you're in "save assets for someone else" camp. Let me ask you this.. What assets are we talking about here? I dont think anyone is talking about offering 4 1sts for Jrue. If its a 1st ( most likely out of the lottery) and the Denver pick (most likely 25-30 pick), thats nothing. Fultz has no real value in a trade, and neither does Harris.

Do you want to know what kills trade value? Drafting two lottery picks and giving them no playing time or sending them to the g-league.

Ok so Jrue is so great but we can just get him for trash? you guys gotta make up your mind. If Fultz and Harris have no value you are essentially giving up 2first rounder for Jrue and there are many teams that will beat that offer in a heartbeat because he is more valuable to them because they are pushing for a championship in the next two years. Look we’re never going to see eye to eye because you think bringing on Jrue will help Cole Black and Suggs development. I disagree completely these guys need as much playing time to develop and the best part is we have so many that they will push each other so you’re not just handing minutes to anyone. The ideal situation is multiple of them come through and timelines for prime line up. If not we use our draft picks including 2024 to support another trade after we find out crucial info from this year.

[Residual-Heat]

If you're in "save assets for someone else" camp. Let me ask you this.. What assets are we talking about here? I dont think anyone is talking about offering 4 1sts for Jrue. If its a 1st ( most likely out of the lottery) and the Denver pick (most likely 25-30 pick), thats nothing. Fultz has no real value in a trade, and neither does Harris.

Do you want to know what kills trade value? Drafting two lottery picks and giving them no playing time or sending them to the g-league.

Ok so Jrue is so great but we can just get him for trash? you guys gotta make up your mind. If Fultz and Harris have no value you are essentially giving up 2first rounder for Jrue and there are many teams that will beat that offer in a heartbeat because he is more valuable to them because they are pushing for a championship in the next two years. Look we’re never going to see eye to eye because you think bringing on Jrue will help Cole Black and Suggs development. I disagree completely these guys need as much playing time to develop and the best part is we have so many that they will push each other so you’re not just handing minutes to anyone. The ideal situation is multiple of them come through and timelines for prime line up. If not we use our draft picks including 2024 to support another trade after we find out crucial info from this year.

Ok so Jrue is so great but we can just get him for trash?

2 1st round picks isnt trash. Its just a good deal for us. Its nothing compared to what we're getting back, which is an allstar, 1st team defense perfect fit for Paolo and Franz. Is it enough? IDK, but i sure hell hope that the front office offers the Blazers that package. I know that the Blazers have no use for him, that he's on a 1+1 contract, most other teams are set at PG, and he's making 37 mill/yr which makes it hard for other teams to match salary without giving up a rotation player that they would need. For the Magic its not as much of a problem, since Jrue is better than both Fultz and Harris put together. The Magic package provides them with expiring contracts.

What other teams are going to want Jrue when most already have a good/young PG? What contender is going to offer a package for Jrue? There were rumors the Celtics could go after him, but they cant really get him without losing one of Horford/Williams. With KP's injury history they cant afford to lose them. The Clippers? Not all first round picks are equal. Im sure the Blazers would rather have a Magic 1st than the Clippers 1st for instance.


I already explained why Jrue helps all our young players develop. You're talking about playing time being an issue when Jrue plays 3 more mpg than Fultz did last season. Harris is no longer needed (he's part of the trade) because we'd have Suggs starting at SG. Jrue will help open up playing time for Black and Suggs because you're replacing 2 players with just one player. Its simple math. Then you add in the fact that Jrue can play with Black and Suggs in the backcourt, while Fultz-Black fit is not going to work, and Suggs-Fultz is very questionable. Cole can play with Jrue too, but if Howard and Black step up, Cole can be moved mid-season.

[Magic#1]

Let's look realistically at some all-star level players who could conceivable be available within the next two-three years.
KAT: Minnesota could take a jump and figure it out, but they were expected to do that last year and didn't. Another year or two of mediocrity and KAT could bounce.
Booker: The Suns have pushed their chips in. Maybe they win one. I don't think they do. Durant is likely done in another year or two. Will Booker want to stick around?
Doncic: Depending on Kyrie is a gamble.
Mitchell: We'll see what happens.
Zion: I don't think we'd be in play for Zion, but we'll see what happens there.

Those are just names off the top of my head. It is likely at least two or three are wearing a new uniform in two or three years, maybe less. We are in PRIME contention to be a possible contender. We don't trade any of our assets for a player like Jrue (as good and valuable as he is) when those same assets may be needed for a better deal in another few years that would net us a player who could potentially help us get our first 'ship. Jrue isn't going to win us a championship. Any of the above possibly could. The goal isn't playoffs. It's championship. Building a championship roster is going to take time and evaluation. We've added some fantastic pieces, and if we get lucky, maybe they even develop into a championship roster. I don't see it, but I'd love to be wrong. If not, we are in a place to make one of those near Dame-level trades with a player on our timeline.

[SOUL]

but i'm terrified of idea that Franz Wagner this, Banchero next year will be making near $100M over next 6,7 years while spending years playing for nothing. What if they aren't that guys ?

I mean that's a whole diff discussion altogether right? If people are not sure about Franz or Paolo then I mean, no offense, but 99% of fans outside of contending teams would love to be in the position of finding out if Paolo or Franz are good enough to lead us

As far as Jrue goes, of course he could be useful here.. but he said he wanted to retire soon and his contract.. what are we gonna do, set off a bunch of fireworks and celebrate 7th seed and give away assets before guys are ready for deep playoff push? Timing is weird, you'd have to basically move a lot more people too.

I don't doubt our assets could acquire Jrue, but the timing of it risks some Cleveland timing where their young guys are still a bit green while Mitchell is already potentially teasing leaving next season and they'll have nothing to show for it but playoffs they probably already would've made naturally without that big move.. with a first round exit to boot.

Team will need to pull the trigger on a big move, but who and when is vital.

[basketballRob]

Markannen broke out in Fiba last season right after that trade. If Cleveland showed patience, they had Lauri for 3 more years at a little over $50m, plus all the assets.

Utah drafted Keyonte with the Cleveland pick.

Maybe Fultz breaks out this season, and we pick a 10-year starter with our 2024 pick.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[VFX]

Nobody here wanted Dame because he was 33 years old. Now people want Jrue... throwing all the same names and draft picks out as an offer. LOL

They are nowhere close to the same value at this juncture.