Jordan Love Thread - All Aboard the Love Train

[MVP2110]

Eh, I think it's a little crazy to handwave the accuracy issues. 56% is atrociously bad.

John Elway 56.9%
Warren Moon 58.4%
Donovan McNabb 59%
Dan Marino 59.4%
Eli Manning 60.3%
Andrew Luck 60.8%
Troy Aikman 61.5%
Brett Favre 62%(really raised up by the end of his career when his 3 high completion % years were 3 of his last 4 seasons. 2 of his MVP seasons were under 60%)

All really good to great QBs with low completion %s. It's obviously not idea and it'd be nice to raise it up a bit but a low completion % is not a death sentence by itself

Yeah, this is pretty disingenuous. QBs over the last 5 seasons who have finished the season sub 60% completion and started 8 games or more:

Cooper Rush
Zach Wilson x 2
Sam Darnold x 3
Trevor Lawrence
Carson Wentz
Drew Lock
Andy Dalton
Baker Mayfield
Josh Allen x 2
Dwayne Haskins
Jeff Driskel
Josh Rosen

He's 1/4 in games throwing above that level this season, and the deeper we get, the more tape there will be for teams to gameplan against him with. Overall, this is a major concern, and should be treated as such.

Now where does Love's Adot compared to those QBs because I'm guessing he's throwing a higher % of high difficulty passes with the youngest group of pass catchers of anyone on that list.

[skones]

Now where does Love's Adot compared to those QBs because I'm guessing he's throwing a higher % of high difficulty passes with the youngest group of pass catchers of anyone on that list.

At a certain point, adot, whatever else, calling his throws hard, etc. remain a way to make excuses for his underwhelming play thus far.

[MickeyDavis]

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[MVP2110]

Now where does Love's Adot compared to those QBs because I'm guessing he's throwing a higher % of high difficulty passes with the youngest group of pass catchers of anyone on that list.

At a certain point, adot, whatever else, calling his throws hard, etc. remain a way to make excuses for his underwhelming play thus far.

Not necessarily. A higher average depth of target means a pass less likely to be completed. Love has the lowest completion % in the league, but he also has the lowest expected completion % in the league.

[skones]

Now where does Love's Adot compared to those QBs because I'm guessing he's throwing a higher % of high difficulty passes with the youngest group of pass catchers of anyone on that list.

At a certain point, adot, whatever else, calling his throws hard, etc. remain a way to make excuses for his underwhelming play thus far.

Not necessarily. A higher average depth of target means a pass less likely to be completed. Love has the lowest completion % in the league, but he also has the lowest expected completion % in the league.

Perhaps Love should start making better decisions and utilizing what's underneath then? Again, it's an excuse.

[MVP2110]

At a certain point, adot, whatever else, calling his throws hard, etc. remain a way to make excuses for his underwhelming play thus far.

Not necessarily. A higher average depth of target means a pass less likely to be completed. Love has the lowest completion % in the league, but he also has the lowest expected completion % in the league.

Perhaps Love should start making better decisions and utilizing what's underneath then? Again, it's an excuse.

Considering he has a top 10 EPA I think his decision making is just fine. There's more to a QB than just completion %

[skones]

Not necessarily. A higher average depth of target means a pass less likely to be completed. Love has the lowest completion % in the league, but he also has the lowest expected completion % in the league.

Perhaps Love should start making better decisions and utilizing what's underneath then? Again, it's an excuse.

Considering he has a top 10 EPA I think his decision making is just fine. There's more to a QB than just completion %

Won't be after this week, and then you'll need to find something else to pivot to for an excuse. I just don't know how you can have watched this guy against the last two games and a quarter and say to yourself, "Yeah, this guy is good."

He's been "meh" through four weeks, and that's not what you're looking for out of the QB position in the NFL, ESPECIALLY, if that guy sat for three years preparing.

[humanrefutation]

The accuracy is clearly a problem. You can see it watching live, especially on deep balls.

Some of this, I'm sure, is a product of inexperience with these young receivers. Part of it his the offensive line (he did not have many clean pockets.) But part of it is just him, and his lack of accuracy were one of the primary complaints about him coming out of Utah State.

He's going to have to get better. And I don't question he'll work his ass off on it and it is very obvious to me that his teammates will work for him, too.

[MVP2110]

Perhaps Love should start making better decisions and utilizing what's underneath then? Again, it's an excuse.

Considering he has a top 10 EPA I think his decision making is just fine. There's more to a QB than just completion %

Won't be after this week, and then you'll need to find something else to pivot to for an excuse. I just don't know how you can have watched this guy against the last two games and a quarter and say to yourself, "Yeah, this guy is good."

He's been "meh" through four weeks, and that's not what you're looking for out of the QB position in the NFL, ESPECIALLY, if that guy sat for three years preparing.

Because basically every advanced number out there tells me he's been good. His completion % is the only thing his detractors really have as a negative. He hasn't been mvp worthy or anything but he's clearly been a starting caliber QB so far through 4 games and that's great given his surrounding talent and that it's his first year starting

[WeekapaugGroove]

Yeah there are some misses on easy throws you just can't have. There was a 3rd down play I think on their second drive where he missed a wide open Doubs that's a great example. That play goes in the stats as just an incompletion but it was in effect a turnover. Margins for winning and losing are slim in this league and you can't leave the easy ones on the field.

But I also think there have been some nice flashes too. As we went round and round the other day I think QBs need to play in games to develop so I'll wait to actually see him play more before judging. I don't really factor the 3 years sitting into my judgement, dudes still really green.

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[humanrefutation]

Read on Twitter

[skones]

Considering he has a top 10 EPA I think his decision making is just fine. There's more to a QB than just completion %

Won't be after this week, and then you'll need to find something else to pivot to for an excuse. I just don't know how you can have watched this guy against the last two games and a quarter and say to yourself, "Yeah, this guy is good."

He's been "meh" through four weeks, and that's not what you're looking for out of the QB position in the NFL, ESPECIALLY, if that guy sat for three years preparing.

Because basically every advanced number out there tells me he's been good. His completion % is the only thing his detractors really have as a negative. He hasn't been mvp worthy or anything but he's clearly been a starting caliber QB so far through 4 games and that's great given his surrounding talent and that it's his first year starting

I watched him wilt against the Falcons, look all sorts of lost for the entire game against the Saints and benefit greatly on two DPI calls on underthrown balls, and then watched him put up 21 yards of first half offense against the Lions. Like, at what point do you just take a look at his play and think, hey, maybe these numbers don't really align here?

And that's the point they won't long term. Being first in EPA and dead last in CPOE is one of those noisy never before seen outliers and that's probably something that should be acknowledged. Either you think Jordan Love is this unicorn, or you think he's just not that good.

[MVP2110]

Won't be after this week, and then you'll need to find something else to pivot to for an excuse. I just don't know how you can have watched this guy against the last two games and a quarter and say to yourself, "Yeah, this guy is good."

He's been "meh" through four weeks, and that's not what you're looking for out of the QB position in the NFL, ESPECIALLY, if that guy sat for three years preparing.

Because basically every advanced number out there tells me he's been good. His completion % is the only thing his detractors really have as a negative. He hasn't been mvp worthy or anything but he's clearly been a starting caliber QB so far through 4 games and that's great given his surrounding talent and that it's his first year starting

I watched him wilt against the Falcons, look all sorts of lost for the entire game against the Saints and benefit greatly on two DPI calls on underthrown balls, and then watched him put up 21 yards of first half offense against the Lions. Like, at what point do you just take a look at his play and think, hey, maybe these numbers don't really align here?

And that's the point they won't long term. Being first in EPA and dead last in CPOE is one of those noisy never before seen outliers and that's probably something that should be acknowledged. Either you think Jordan Love is this unicorn, or you think he's just not that good.

When you only factor in the negatives and erase the positives then yea a player looks pretty bad through that lens. All I've said is I think he's shown to be a starting caliber QB so far and considering he has a historically young pass catcher group and it's his first year starting I'll take that. The Lions game was really interesting, he was absolutely phenomenal when he had a clean packet, but dreadful when he was pressured which was nearly 50% of the time. He certainly needs to get better against pressure but that's not atypical for low experienced qbs.

[skones]

Because basically every advanced number out there tells me he's been good. His completion % is the only thing his detractors really have as a negative. He hasn't been mvp worthy or anything but he's clearly been a starting caliber QB so far through 4 games and that's great given his surrounding talent and that it's his first year starting

I watched him wilt against the Falcons, look all sorts of lost for the entire game against the Saints and benefit greatly on two DPI calls on underthrown balls, and then watched him put up 21 yards of first half offense against the Lions. Like, at what point do you just take a look at his play and think, hey, maybe these numbers don't really align here?

And that's the point they won't long term. Being first in EPA and dead last in CPOE is one of those noisy never before seen outliers and that's probably something that should be acknowledged. Either you think Jordan Love is this unicorn, or you think he's just not that good.

When you only factor in the negatives and erase the positives then yea a player looks pretty bad through that lens. All I've said is I think he's shown to be a starting caliber QB so far and considering he has a historically young pass catcher group and it's his first year starting I'll take that. The Lions game was really interesting, he was absolutely phenomenal when he had a clean packet, but dreadful when he was pressured which was nearly 50% of the time. He certainly needs to get better against pressure but that's not atypical for low experienced qbs.

I think it's the context of these situations that's alarming. When the ball doesn't move, it doesn't move at all. The average length of drive in the NFL is 6 plays 30 yards.

4th Q against the Falcons:
3 plays 2 yards
3 plays 5 yards
4 plays 0 yards

Saints:
4 plays 8 yards
7 plays 27 yards
10 plays 41 yards
3 plays -4 yards (INT)
3 plays 1 yard
12 plays 82 yards
7 plays 46 yards
7 plays 80 yards (DPIs)
9 plays 80 yards

Lions:
4 plays 0 yards
3 plays -11 yards
3 plays 7 yards
1 play 0 yards (INT)
3 plays 3 yards
5 plays 16 yards
12 plays 86 yards
3 plays 4 yards
5 plays 66 yards
8 plays 69 yards (INT)
4 plays 3 yards

Like forget figuring out how to win, we're more at, figuring out how to consistently put a drive together. Truth be told, I think it's the exact opposite of what you're saying. Lot of folks hyperfocusing on the good moments instead of acknowledging that there are red flags here.

[MVP2110]

I watched him wilt against the Falcons, look all sorts of lost for the entire game against the Saints and benefit greatly on two DPI calls on underthrown balls, and then watched him put up 21 yards of first half offense against the Lions. Like, at what point do you just take a look at his play and think, hey, maybe these numbers don't really align here?

And that's the point they won't long term. Being first in EPA and dead last in CPOE is one of those noisy never before seen outliers and that's probably something that should be acknowledged. Either you think Jordan Love is this unicorn, or you think he's just not that good.

When you only factor in the negatives and erase the positives then yea a player looks pretty bad through that lens. All I've said is I think he's shown to be a starting caliber QB so far and considering he has a historically young pass catcher group and it's his first year starting I'll take that. The Lions game was really interesting, he was absolutely phenomenal when he had a clean packet, but dreadful when he was pressured which was nearly 50% of the time. He certainly needs to get better against pressure but that's not atypical for low experienced qbs.

I think it's the context of these situations that's alarming. When the ball doesn't move, it doesn't move at all. The average length of drive in the NFL is 6 plays 30 yards.

4th Q against the Falcons:
3 plays 2 yards
3 plays 5 yards
4 plays 0 yards

Saints:
4 plays 8 yards
7 plays 27 yards
10 plays 41 yards
3 plays -4 yards (INT)
3 plays 1 yard
12 plays 82 yards
7 plays 46 yards
7 plays 80 yards (DPIs)
9 plays 80 yards

Lions:
4 plays 0 yards
3 plays -11 yards
3 plays 7 yards
1 play 0 yards (INT)
3 plays 3 yards
5 plays 16 yards
12 plays 86 yards
3 plays 4 yards
5 plays 66 yards
8 plays 69 yards (INT)
4 plays 3 yards

Like forget figuring out how to win, we're more at, figuring out how to consistently put a drive together. Truth be told, I think it's the exact opposite of what you're saying. Lot of folks hyperfocusing on the good moments instead of acknowledging that there are red flags here.

It's weird to me you cut out the 1st 3 quarters against Atlanta, but then just disregard the 4th quarter against the Saints. Or that you disregard his 1st game but use his worst game. Or that you don't factor in any context of the fact that he was without his 2 best OL, his best WR, and Aaron Jones for 2.5 of the games or that his surrounding cast is like historically young

Also DPIs are a positive thing, Rodgers used to do it all the time of purposely underthrowing a WR to draw the penalty, its probably where Love learned that from. Not that every DPI is on purpose but there are certainly times it is.

[Ron Swanson]

Lol, holy cherry-picked stats Batman. Good thing Love has played 4-games so far this year, not 2.25.

[skones]

It's weird to me you cut out the 1st 3 quarters against Atlanta, but then just disregard the 4th quarter against the Saints. Or that you disregard his 1st game but use his worst game. Or that you don't factor in any context of the fact that he was without his 2 best OL, his best WR, and Aaron Jones for 2.5 of the games or that his surrounding cast is like historically young

Also DPIs are a positive thing, Rodgers used to do it all the time of purposely underthrowing a WR to draw the penalty, its probably where Love learned that from. Not that every DPI is on purpose but there are certainly times it is.

I mean, the fourth quarter against Atlanta is when things flipped a bit for Love. That's why I've consistently spoken of the time frame since then. I'm ALSO not entirely sure how I'm disregarding the 4th quarter against the Saints given those drives are explicitly included, but if you want to act like Love made these huge plays by underthrowing a deep ball forcing his receivers to come back and draw DPI penalties, go ahead? Wouldn't it be you who's actually not factoring in context given the post you replied to spoke about the exact span in which I just displayed above?

And no, those aren't "purposeful" underthrows when our receivers had their guys beat. Those are bad throws. Like are you serious with that? Now his bad throws are genius underthrows explicitly to draw DPI's? Listen to yourself.

At what point are you actually going to give Love space for some of the blame here? It's the NFL, circumstances are never perfect.

[ReginaldDwight]

Need to see more with a competent looking pass pro. Love also gets happy feet in the pocket which is what drives his throws high it seems.

[jute2003]

Love has had some accuracy issues so far and they've only been compounded by crap protection and young recievers effing up.

He still has only 4 starts to his name

[MVP2110]

It's weird to me you cut out the 1st 3 quarters against Atlanta, but then just disregard the 4th quarter against the Saints. Or that you disregard his 1st game but use his worst game. Or that you don't factor in any context of the fact that he was without his 2 best OL, his best WR, and Aaron Jones for 2.5 of the games or that his surrounding cast is like historically young

Also DPIs are a positive thing, Rodgers used to do it all the time of purposely underthrowing a WR to draw the penalty, its probably where Love learned that from. Not that every DPI is on purpose but there are certainly times it is.

I mean, the fourth quarter against Atlanta is when things flipped a bit for Love. That's why I've consistently spoken of the time frame since then. I'm ALSO not entirely sure how I'm disregarding the 4th quarter against the Saints given those drives are explicitly included, but if you want to act like Love made these huge plays by underthrowing a deep ball forcing his receivers to come back and draw DPI penalties, go ahead? Wouldn't it be you who's actually not factoring in context given the post you replied to spoke about the exact span in which I just displayed above?

And no, those aren't "purposeful" underthrows when our receivers had their guys beat. Those are bad throws. Like are you serious with that? Now his bad throws are genius underthrows explicitly to draw DPI's? Listen to yourself.

At what point are you actually going to give Love space for some of the blame here? It's the NFL, circumstances are never perfect.

I've said Love has been a starting quality QB with some bright spots and some not so bright spots. You were the one who previously said he was ass. I'm not the one completely ignoring chunks of games that don't fit my narrative.

Also there is a very big difference between "circumstances not being perfect" and literally being without your WR1, RB1, OT1, & LG1, and also having a historically young supporting cast. I'm curious what you would consider a good season from him, what are your actual expectations?