Shams: Lillard to Milwaukee in three team deal

[docholliday99]

What made these offers fairly equivalent is the lack of blue chip young talent (and why OG didn't need to be in them). Without that, haggling over an extra first or some role player isn't breaking a deal if you're motivated against a specific offer.

Jrue/Trent/Herro are only there to generate pick assets. You can easily talk yourself into believing the Bucks far off picks will be far more valuable than the Heat's. There's your core value, and you can walk away happy.

The final offers were roughly equivalent, but Miami's available cache could have toppled anything Milwaukee could have come up with. They could add prospects (Jovic, Jacques) and picks and they included FRPs, not just swaps. Swaps are potentially high value, but also can end up as nothing at all. They can't be re-packaged.

Cronin was trying to bait Masai and Riley, and both thought they were negotiating against each other. In the end, Dame's agent should have convinced Riley to pitch in, either by hinting that there were other bids beyond Toronto, or just explicitly stating it.

Spooking the Bucks and not leaving yourself an out can also be a way to lose your job as an agent. Anyway, this is mostly on the Heat, who basically have no window left and should have jumped on this more forcefully.

And this will always be the issue with trades. You can math out what you believe is a much better offer, but only the trading team matters.

I don't think this is on the Heat, the Heat's purported deal would have been stronger in the end (or maybe equal depending on the coming Jrue trade) but PDX's FO and Dame had some serious stuff going on between them, and Portland made an example of Dame. I can see it from both sides, they both certainly made mistakes.

Crazy to me, PDX has the same issue as Toronto in attracting FA's, if it was tough before, going to be even tougher now.

On an aside, if Jrue was a few years younger, I'd trade OG for him.

[ciueli]

It's discouraging to learn that some of these media types work on behalf of some franchises and work against other franchises. IE they do the bidding of some front offices (and/or agents) and undermine others. And knowing we will always be on the losing side of these propaganda wars.

Interesting some here saying Dame's agent did a bad job. Dame ended up in a better basketball situation than Miami would have been. Maybe Dame's Miami only stance was a subterfuge too.

It's not like we're learning this just now. We've heard rumours Steve Ballmer paid WOJ to be a mouthpiece for him at times. We've known for decades that some teams intentionally leak information to media sources to further their own interests, none of this is new.

For that matter, it wouldn't surprise me if most of this "Toronto is in the lead for Dame" stuff was just an attempt by our front office to make it look like they were doing something, anything really to make the team better. Why else would they keep pursuing a player after that player's agent leaked rumours Dame would "make it ugly" for us if we traded for him? Why nope out of the trade at the last minute and let the Bucks swoop in with the excuse that Dame didn't really want to be here, we knew that from day 1!

[Kingsway_fan]

African born American stars DO NOT WANT TO PLAY IN CANADA.

tf is an African born American star? Joel Embiid?[/quote

Meant American born Black players... not those from elsewhere outside of USA.

[BramptonYute]

People want to give credit to the FO for trying lol

Thats not good enough.

[Fairview4Life]

I can't remember who reported it, but basically it was said that Portland agreed not to publicize Milwaukee's offer out of respect for Jrue. In this case it may have scuttled the deal entirely. Also because Miami was obviously leaking everything and using the media to attack other bids.

For me I think Dame's agent has to tell Miami the bid must go up. It's not just Masai involved. Miami was holding firm right until the end through the media, and now you see their local guys act all puzzled and bothered. They thought they had the best offer and could have offered more. No, they didn't have to give everything to get Dame, they just had to mildly improve their offer at least one time.

In the end, we get some guys saying "there's no way Masai was going to up his offer" to "Miami would have, but wasn't given the chance or thought they were going to have to give up everything."

What made these offers fairly equivalent is the lack of blue chip young talent (and why OG didn't need to be in them). Without that, haggling over an extra first or some role player isn't breaking a deal if you're motivated against a specific offer.

Jrue/Trent/Herro are only there to generate pick assets. You can easily talk yourself into believing the Bucks far off picks will be far more valuable than the Heat's. There's your core value, and you can walk away happy.

The final offers were roughly equivalent, but Miami's available cache could have toppled anything Milwaukee could have come up with. They could add prospects (Jovic, Jacques) and picks and they included FRPs, not just swaps. Swaps are potentially high value, but also can end up as nothing at all. They can't be re-packaged.

Cronin was trying to bait Masai and Riley, and both thought they were negotiating against each other. In the end, Dame's agent should have convinced Riley to pitch in, either by hinting that there were other bids beyond Toronto, or just explicitly stating it.

So I'm still stuck on this. I still don't understand how Portland doesn't tell Miami and Toronto that they have a better offer from another team and they are moving Dame by the end of the day at to give them a shot to present their best offers. Even if they don't name the team to protect Jrue's feelings or whatever. If you're trying to bait someone to increase their offer, you have to actually like talk to them and ****.

[ATLTimekeeper]

What made these offers fairly equivalent is the lack of blue chip young talent (and why OG didn't need to be in them). Without that, haggling over an extra first or some role player isn't breaking a deal if you're motivated against a specific offer.

Jrue/Trent/Herro are only there to generate pick assets. You can easily talk yourself into believing the Bucks far off picks will be far more valuable than the Heat's. There's your core value, and you can walk away happy.

The final offers were roughly equivalent, but Miami's available cache could have toppled anything Milwaukee could have come up with. They could add prospects (Jovic, Jacques) and picks and they included FRPs, not just swaps. Swaps are potentially high value, but also can end up as nothing at all. They can't be re-packaged.

Cronin was trying to bait Masai and Riley, and both thought they were negotiating against each other. In the end, Dame's agent should have convinced Riley to pitch in, either by hinting that there were other bids beyond Toronto, or just explicitly stating it.

So I'm still stuck on this. I still don't understand how Portland doesn't tell Miami and Toronto that they have a better offer from another team and they are moving Dame by the end of the day at to give them a shot to present their best offers. Even if they don't name the team to protect Jrue's feelings or whatever. If you're trying to bait someone to increase their offer, you have to actually like talk to them and ****.

Maybe they did? I'd imagine it's more convincing coming from Dame's agent, though, who is actively trying to get Dame to Miami.

Portland could have 'mystery' teamed all they wanted, but if the deal with Milwaukee is hush-hush and they fear by naming Milwaukee they'll scuttle the acceptable offer on the table, then Miami and Toronto are probably going to still hold ground. And that looks like what happened.

[binjumper]

People are mad we didn't throw away our assets for a guy who doesn't want to play here?

[deeps6x]

why couldn't the raptors have been that third team ? is it because lillard preferred milwaukee ?

Besides being able to say in the court of public opinion that they traded him to a title contender that he'd have no right to complain (as he would here)....don't forget Dame has the SAME AGENT as DeMar DeRozan and both DeMar & his agent were VERY PISSED OFF with Masai about how it all went down.

So I'm sure there was also a touch of that too and this would easily be a far easier "compromise" as a whole. I'm not saying they wouldn't have done a deal if we upped the offer. But they probably felt is fairly close in overall value but one allows them not look like the "bad guys" either which obviously they cared about when they tried to pretend they had any intentions of really trying to build anything around Dame. It just is what it is at this point.

I'm more concerned wtf is this FO gonna do now?! After allowing putting all 3 of their UFAs in trade conversations for the past 2 years, they can't possibly believe that they can sell them now on their committment to them lol someone or maybe even all could/should be traded but at minimum they must move Pascal. He just simply neither fits the timeline or the roster ie/ playing at the same position of the kid we're clearly focused on making the face of the franchise. But now we need to see them really go to work and do so right NOW before they shoot themselves in the only foot they have left before this topples over.

Who is Jrue's agent? Will Jrue and his agent be pissed off about being traded as well?

[JRoy]

The final offers were roughly equivalent, but Miami's available cache could have toppled anything Milwaukee could have come up with. They could add prospects (Jovic, Jacques) and picks and they included FRPs, not just swaps. Swaps are potentially high value, but also can end up as nothing at all. They can't be re-packaged.

Cronin was trying to bait Masai and Riley, and both thought they were negotiating against each other. In the end, Dame's agent should have convinced Riley to pitch in, either by hinting that there were other bids beyond Toronto, or just explicitly stating it.

Spooking the Bucks and not leaving yourself an out can also be a way to lose your job as an agent. Anyway, this is mostly on the Heat, who basically have no window left and should have jumped on this more forcefully.

And this will always be the issue with trades. You can math out what you believe is a much better offer, but only the trading team matters.

I don't think this is on the Heat, the Heat's purported deal would have been stronger in the end (or maybe equal depending on the coming Jrue trade) but PDX's FO and Dame had some serious stuff going on between them, and Portland made an example of Dame. I can see it from both sides, they both certainly made mistakes.

Crazy to me, PDX has the same issue as Toronto in attracting FA's, if it was tough before, going to be even tougher now.

On an aside, if Jrue was a few years younger, I'd trade OG for him.

This argument is lazy.

POR hasn’t landed a quality FA since Brian Grant in 98.

POR has to draft or trade for talent just like TOR.

Not rolling over for superstars and darling franchises was exactly the right thing to do.

[WuTang_CMB]

Happy its all over. Woulda been nice to get Dame if we got him on the cheap.

Time to get this organization back on track this season. Lotta pressure on Darko to not only win 42-48 but to develop

[Raps in 4]

Happy its all over. Woulda been nice to get Dame if we got him on the cheap.

Time to get this organization back on track this season. Lotta pressure on Darko to not only win 42-48 but to develop

I'd prefer he won 22-28 and we got a top-5 pick. As much as I want to see Pop win a title with Wemby, I'd rather keep our pick.

[F22_Raptor]

Rookie head coach Adrian Griffin just got gifted a sweet situation. He should do well. He's got Raps championship DNA! Wishing all the best to AG except when he coaches against the Raps!

[PhilBlackson]

Rookie head coach Adrian Griffin just got gifted a sweet situation. He should do well. He's got Raps championship DNA! Wishing all the best to AG except when he coaches against the Raps!

Now we need to trade Pascal & bring his son home to be Scottie’s new running mate.

#BRINGAJHOME

[WuTang_CMB]

Happy its all over. Woulda been nice to get Dame if we got him on the cheap.

Time to get this organization back on track this season. Lotta pressure on Darko to not only win 42-48 but to develop

I'd prefer he won 22-28 and we got a top-5 pick. As much as I want to see Pop win a title with Wemby, I'd rather keep our pick.

I rather give it up and get it over with

a 22 win season gonna be garbage to watch too

[Raps in 4]

Rookie head coach Adrian Griffin just got gifted a sweet situation. He should do well. He's got Raps championship DNA! Wishing all the best to AG except when he coaches against the Raps!

**** the Bucks. I like Griffin and Giannis, but I'm not cheering for them.

[JRoy]

Rookie head coach Adrian Griffin just got gifted a sweet situation. He should do well. He's got Raps championship DNA! Wishing all the best to AG except when he coaches against the Raps!

**** the Bucks. I like Griffin and Giannis, but I'm not cheering for them.

I can feel your anger.

[Raps in 4]

Rookie head coach Adrian Griffin just got gifted a sweet situation. He should do well. He's got Raps championship DNA! Wishing all the best to AG except when he coaches against the Raps!

**** the Bucks. I like Griffin and Giannis, but I'm not cheering for them.

I can feel your anger.

I don't hate them because they got Lillard. I was one of the people who didn't want us to trade for Lillard (I wanted your 2023 draft pick and was hoping your team was dumb enough to trade it, and our team smart enough to trade for it). The Bucks are one of our "rivals" (at least since 2019) and the two fan bases don't like each other.

[docholliday99]

Spooking the Bucks and not leaving yourself an out can also be a way to lose your job as an agent. Anyway, this is mostly on the Heat, who basically have no window left and should have jumped on this more forcefully.

And this will always be the issue with trades. You can math out what you believe is a much better offer, but only the trading team matters.

I don't think this is on the Heat, the Heat's purported deal would have been stronger in the end (or maybe equal depending on the coming Jrue trade) but PDX's FO and Dame had some serious stuff going on between them, and Portland made an example of Dame. I can see it from both sides, they both certainly made mistakes.

Crazy to me, PDX has the same issue as Toronto in attracting FA's, if it was tough before, going to be even tougher now.

On an aside, if Jrue was a few years younger, I'd trade OG for him.

This argument is lazy.

POR hasn’t landed a quality FA since Brian Grant in 98.

POR has to draft or trade for talent just like TOR.

Not rolling over for superstars and darling franchises was exactly the right thing to do.

You just repeated what I said..who's having a lazy argument now? lol You just don't like I blame the Blazer's FO more than the Heat or Lillard, personally, I think the PDX FO should have waited and let it go into the camp - time was on their side.

[JRoy]

I don't think this is on the Heat, the Heat's purported deal would have been stronger in the end (or maybe equal depending on the coming Jrue trade) but PDX's FO and Dame had some serious stuff going on between them, and Portland made an example of Dame. I can see it from both sides, they both certainly made mistakes.

Crazy to me, PDX has the same issue as Toronto in attracting FA's, if it was tough before, going to be even tougher now.

On an aside, if Jrue was a few years younger, I'd trade OG for him.

This argument is lazy.

POR hasn’t landed a quality FA since Brian Grant in 98.

POR has to draft or trade for talent just like TOR.

Not rolling over for superstars and darling franchises was exactly the right thing to do.

You just repeated what I said..who's having a lazy argument now? lol You just don't like I blame the Blazer's FO more than the Heat or Lillard, personally, I think the PDX FO should have waited and let it go into the camp - time was on their side.

That’s not true.

This public trade demand was very out of character for Lillard. Something set that off, likely something the FO. I heard rumors, can’t vouch for accuracy.

Lillard has been with the team since my high school graduate son was 7. Cronin has only been here a few years.

Letting this hang over camp would have been a bad idea, unless there was no deal available.

Much better to sell the fans on youth and the hope of a better team someday than have the awkward scenario of the young guys alongside a guy with a foot obviously out the door.

[docholliday99]

Happy its all over. Woulda been nice to get Dame if we got him on the cheap.

Time to get this organization back on track this season. Lotta pressure on Darko to not only win 42-48 but to develop

I'd prefer he won 22-28 and we got a top-5 pick. As much as I want to see Pop win a title with Wemby, I'd rather keep our pick.

I hate losing and I'd hate to lose like that again. Even 2020-21 was miserable. Rap had a slightly losing record when FvV played and though a small sample, had a winning record without him.

With the talent on this team, minus the self serving play of FvV, and hopefully minus the lock room split, I can see the team closer to 50 wins than bottom 40.