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2023-24 preseason

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Note30
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#81 » by Note30 » Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:55 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:OMG. I just went to Tankathon and looked at their Mock draft for Next season. They have the Wolves in the Lottery. I'm flabbergasted. I might never use that site again out of spite.

Well they have us 10th in the West, which puts us in the play-in.

Yep and I'm flabbergasted.



10th maybe a bit low but it's not too far off.

Last years standings
DEN
MEM
SAC
PHX
LAC
GS
LAL
MIN
OKC
NO
DAL
UTAH
POR
HOU
SA

OKC and DAL both got better
GS and LAL stayed roughly the same with marginal upgrades.
Even HOU and SAS got significantly better.

All the other teams stayed roughly the same.

The only teams that got worse was the Nuggets and depending on what happens to Morant, the Grizzlies. But I wouldn't expect a massive drop.

The question is do you think KAT being back plus Milton and Brown Jr equals more than the enhancements the other teams did?

I'd be surprised if we cracked 46-48 wins.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#82 » by KGdaBom » Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:58 pm

Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Klomp wrote:Well they have us 10th in the West, which puts us in the play-in.

Yep and I'm flabbergasted.



10th maybe a bit low but it's not too far off.

Last years standings
DEN
MEM
SAC
PHX
LAC
GS
LAL
MIN
OKC
NO
DAL
UTAH
POR
HOU
SA

OKC and DAL both got better
GS and LAL stayed roughly the same with marginal upgrades.
Even HOU and SAS got significantly better.

All the other teams stayed roughly the same.

The only teams that got worse was the Nuggets and depending on what happens to Morant, the Grizzlies. But I wouldn't expect a massive drop.

The question is do you think KAT being back plus Milton and Brown Jr equals more than the enhancements the other teams did?

I'd be surprised if we cracked 46-48 wins.

The only team in the west I see as likely to finish ahead of us is Denver. We are just way more talented and deep than everybody else.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#83 » by Note30 » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:00 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Yep and I'm flabbergasted.



10th maybe a bit low but it's not too far off.

Last years standings
DEN
MEM
SAC
PHX
LAC
GS
LAL
MIN
OKC
NO
DAL
UTAH
POR
HOU
SA

OKC and DAL both got better
GS and LAL stayed roughly the same with marginal upgrades.
Even HOU and SAS got significantly better.

All the other teams stayed roughly the same.

The only teams that got worse was the Nuggets and depending on what happens to Morant, the Grizzlies. But I wouldn't expect a massive drop.

The question is do you think KAT being back plus Milton and Brown Jr equals more than the enhancements the other teams did?

I'd be surprised if we cracked 46-48 wins.

The only team in the west I see as likely to finish ahead of us is Denver. We are just way more talented and deep than everybody else.


You're in for a bit of a shock.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#84 » by KGdaBom » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:01 pm

Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:

10th maybe a bit low but it's not too far off.

Last years standings
DEN
MEM
SAC
PHX
LAC
GS
LAL
MIN
OKC
NO
DAL
UTAH
POR
HOU
SA

OKC and DAL both got better
GS and LAL stayed roughly the same with marginal upgrades.
Even HOU and SAS got significantly better.

All the other teams stayed roughly the same.

The only teams that got worse was the Nuggets and depending on what happens to Morant, the Grizzlies. But I wouldn't expect a massive drop.

The question is do you think KAT being back plus Milton and Brown Jr equals more than the enhancements the other teams did?

I'd be surprised if we cracked 46-48 wins.

The only team in the west I see as likely to finish ahead of us is Denver. We are just way more talented and deep than everybody else.


You're in for a bit of a shock.

I think you are. :D
Phoenix could possibly finish ahead of us if they stay healthy, but we know that won't happen. Warriors pretty much rest their stars one out of every 3 games. No way they finish ahead of us. Grizz with Ja going to implode. Assuming KAT plays and the bench is better we improved more than every other team in the west.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#85 » by Dewey » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:02 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Yep and I'm flabbergasted.



10th maybe a bit low but it's not too far off.

Last years standings
DEN
MEM
SAC
PHX
LAC
GS
LAL
MIN
OKC
NO
DAL
UTAH
POR
HOU
SA

OKC and DAL both got better
GS and LAL stayed roughly the same with marginal upgrades.
Even HOU and SAS got significantly better.

All the other teams stayed roughly the same.

The only teams that got worse was the Nuggets and depending on what happens to Morant, the Grizzlies. But I wouldn't expect a massive drop.

The question is do you think KAT being back plus Milton and Brown Jr equals more than the enhancements the other teams did?

I'd be surprised if we cracked 46-48 wins.

The only team in the west I see as likely to finish ahead of us is Denver. We are just way more talented and deep than everybody else.

The west is a HodgePodge …
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#86 » by Note30 » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:02 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:The only team in the west I see as likely to finish ahead of us is Denver. We are just way more talented and deep than everybody else.


You're in for a bit of a shock.

I think you are. :D


Nothing has changed from last year except for the return of KAT, if you think he gets us 9 more wins this season he better get the MVP this year.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#87 » by KGdaBom » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:05 pm

Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
You're in for a bit of a shock.

I think you are. :D


Nothing has changed from last year except for the return of KAT, if you think he gets us 9 more wins this season he better get the MVP this year.

How about ANT being the MVP or close. Yes KAT returning is massive. Our bench improvements are huge. We are the most improved team in the west. Top 3 for sure.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#88 » by KATKlownFeet » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:19 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I think you are. :D


Nothing has changed from last year except for the return of KAT, if you think he gets us 9 more wins this season he better get the MVP this year.

How about ANT being the MVP or close. Yes KAT returning is massive. Our bench improvements are huge. We are the most improved team in the west. Top 3 for sure.


I love Ant, but he's not even close to MVP. The Ant hype is ridiculous.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#89 » by Calinks » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:27 pm

I don't see Ant being MVP but all it really takes to be in the discussion is your team being like top 3 in wins. So if somehow the wolves are just crushing it and we lead the west, he or KAT would be in the MVP race. I just really doubt we would be that good, a lot would have to go very right.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#90 » by wolves_89 » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:33 pm

I think people are sleeping on just how much of an improvement to the bench the team did this offseason. Replacing the 4400 minutes the team gave Nowell, Prince, Rivers, McLaughlin, and Forbes with Milton, NAW, Brown, and Anderson (takes Princes SF minutes while Naz takes the PF minutes) is a truly massive upgrade.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#91 » by Note30 » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:36 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
Note30 wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:I think you are. :D


Nothing has changed from last year except for the return of KAT, if you think he gets us 9 more wins this season he better get the MVP this year.

How about ANT being the MVP or close. Yes KAT returning is massive. Our bench improvements are huge. We are the most improved team in the west. Top 3 for sure.


Very idealistic of you to hope for Ant to become MVP this year. He's hopefully gonna make big leaps this year.

KAT returning would you say that's even 7 wins worthy, because he'd have the highest win shares in the league if that were true.

We are far from the most improved team, there's a lot of other teams that have made improvements to their roster this off-season. DAL and HOU both made far more improvements than we did. I could make the case that the Suns did as well. Improvements do not constitute a better team just overall improvement.

In fact we probably are pretty close to the Thunder and Pelicans as far as off-season moves. Both of those teams are about to add their best player, a big back to their roster, and made some smaller moves to improve their team.

I would not call us the most improved team this off-season.

I'd say were in a pretty good scenario a 5 seed this year, and that's being optimistic. It's more like 6-8 this year.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#92 » by Note30 » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:38 pm

wolves_89 wrote:I think people are sleeping on just how much of an improvement to the bench the team did this offseason. Replacing the 4400 minutes the team gave Nowell, Prince, Rivers, McLaughlin, and Forbes with Milton, NAW, Brown, and Anderson (takes Princes SF minutes) is a truly massive upgrade.


Prince and Brown are about the same. Anderson already played big minutes last year. NAW was also on the team last year. McL is probably keeping his minutes.

We replaced Nowell with Milton. That's really it. We went .500 in the post all star break so expecting massive changes from the bench is unlikely.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#93 » by wolves_89 » Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:43 pm

Note30 wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:I think people are sleeping on just how much of an improvement to the bench the team did this offseason. Replacing the 4400 minutes the team gave Nowell, Prince, Rivers, McLaughlin, and Forbes with Milton, NAW, Brown, and Anderson (takes Princes SF minutes) is a truly massive upgrade.


Prince and Brown are about the same. Anderson already played big minutes last year. NAW was also on the team last year. McL is probably keeping his minutes.

We replaced Nowell with Milton. That's really it. We went .500 in the post all star break so expecting massive changes from the bench is unlikely.


Anderson is the guy who is taking over Prince's role at SF with Naz taking the PF minutes. Basically, I see it a Milton taking over the Nowell/McLaughlin minutes, NAW taking over Rivers minutes, and Anderson taking over the Prince Minutes. Brown is the guy who plays when any of the non-bigs is out. However you look at it, there are 4400 minutes of really poor basketball that are almost certain to be replaced by significantly better players.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#94 » by Klomp » Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:24 pm

Note30 wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:I think people are sleeping on just how much of an improvement to the bench the team did this offseason. Replacing the 4400 minutes the team gave Nowell, Prince, Rivers, McLaughlin, and Forbes with Milton, NAW, Brown, and Anderson (takes Princes SF minutes) is a truly massive upgrade.


Prince and Brown are about the same. Anderson already played big minutes last year. NAW was also on the team last year. McL is probably keeping his minutes.

We replaced Nowell with Milton. That's really it. We went .500 in the post all star break so expecting massive changes from the bench is unlikely.

While NAW and Conley were on the team last year, they weren't part of a fully healthy team but for maybe 3-4 games. They were plugging holes, but then sub-optimal talents had to try to fill in their shoes on the back end. I think Conley is exceptionally huge. He may not have a huge role in minutes, shots or assists, but his impact will be huge. Not only because of the Gobert synergy, but just his overall leadership and floor command while not necessarily needing the ball to prove his worth.

Nowell and Rivers both were forced to average over 10 mpg against the world champs in the first round, just to get us to a nine-man rotation. Neither guy is in a training camp on a standard contract, two-way or even Exhibit 10 or camp tryout. Essentially they're outside of the Top 500 players in the NBA and both were in the playoff rotation. And we were in almost every game to the very end.

I think where we really struggled in previous iterations of the team is the versatility of the roster. Guys can play with the ball or without the ball. Guys have the size and strength if switched in a suboptimal situation, they won't be orange cones like Nowell or Forbes or Russell. Milton, Brown, Edwards, McDaniels, Alexander-Walker, all can hold their own guarding anything from PG to PF. That's an enormous advantage that we saw Denver really exploit in teams last year on their way to a title.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#95 » by Note30 » Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:46 pm

Klomp wrote:
Note30 wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:I think people are sleeping on just how much of an improvement to the bench the team did this offseason. Replacing the 4400 minutes the team gave Nowell, Prince, Rivers, McLaughlin, and Forbes with Milton, NAW, Brown, and Anderson (takes Princes SF minutes) is a truly massive upgrade.


Prince and Brown are about the same. Anderson already played big minutes last year. NAW was also on the team last year. McL is probably keeping his minutes.

We replaced Nowell with Milton. That's really it. We went .500 in the post all star break so expecting massive changes from the bench is unlikely.

While NAW and Conley were on the team last year, they weren't part of a fully healthy team but for maybe 3-4 games. They were plugging holes, but then sub-optimal talents had to try to fill in their shoes on the back end. I think Conley is exceptionally huge. He may not have a huge role in minutes, shots or assists, but his impact will be huge. Not only because of the Gobert synergy, but just his overall leadership and floor command while not necessarily needing the ball to prove his worth.

Nowell and Rivers both were forced to average over 10 mpg against the world champs in the first round, just to get us to a nine-man rotation. Neither guy is in a training camp on a standard contract, two-way or even Exhibit 10 or camp tryout. Essentially they're outside of the Top 500 players in the NBA and both were in the playoff rotation. And we were in almost every game to the very end.

I think where we really struggled in previous iterations of the team is the versatility of the roster. Guys can play with the ball or without the ball. Guys have the size and strength if switched in a suboptimal situation, they won't be orange cones like Nowell or Forbes or Russell. Milton, Brown, Edwards, McDaniels, Alexander-Walker, all can hold their own guarding anything from PG to PF. That's an enormous advantage that we saw Denver really exploit in teams last year on their way to a title.


Edwards McD and NAW for sure. I don't know if Milton or Brown can hang 1-4.

I think you can chalk all this up to continuity and synergy, but even then anywhere between 1-3 is still a pretty massive stretch imo.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#96 » by Calinks » Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:00 pm

wolves_89 wrote:I think people are sleeping on just how much of an improvement to the bench the team did this offseason. Replacing the 4400 minutes the team gave Nowell, Prince, Rivers, McLaughlin, and Forbes with Milton, NAW, Brown, and Anderson (takes Princes SF minutes while Naz takes the PF minutes) is a truly massive upgrade.

I don't know. We a,ways think that and get let down. Last year people were thinking Forbes was going to be a way cheaper 2021 Beasley and he wasn't even a shadow of that. Prince was pretty good for us, I could see us missing his production. Anderson might struggle at SF. Shake could flop. It could be better but it could also be worse, I won't say for sure we have improved there. I think we were deeper than most think particularly when you think about all the injuries we had and still made the playoffs.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#97 » by Klomp » Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:37 pm

Calinks wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:I think people are sleeping on just how much of an improvement to the bench the team did this offseason. Replacing the 4400 minutes the team gave Nowell, Prince, Rivers, McLaughlin, and Forbes with Milton, NAW, Brown, and Anderson (takes Princes SF minutes while Naz takes the PF minutes) is a truly massive upgrade.

I don't know. We a,ways think that and get let down. Last year people were thinking Forbes was going to be a way cheaper 2021 Beasley and he wasn't even a shadow of that. Prince was pretty good for us, I could see us missing his production. Anderson might struggle at SF. Shake could flop. It could be better but it could also be worse, I won't say for sure we have improved there. I think we were deeper than most think particularly when you think about all the injuries we had and still made the playoffs.

I think the difference is, we're not relying as much on one-way players to fill roles off the bench.

Forbes, Beasley, Nowell, Prince, etc....not that Shake is incredible on defense, but he gives enough of an effort at his size to where that's going to make a big upgrade defensively and on the glass.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#98 » by thinktank » Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:54 pm

Better off seasons than Wolves in the West:

Suns (Beal, Eric Gordon, Bol Bol, Watanabe)
Lakers (Gabe Vincent, Prince, Jaxson Hayes, Reddish)
Warriors (Paul)
Mavs (Grant Williams, Lively)
OKC (Holmgren, Micic)
Spurs (Wembanyama)
Wolves (Milton, Brown Jr)
Utah (that rookie combo guard, I forget his name, he could be a top 5 rookie)
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#99 » by Klomp » Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:55 pm

thinktank wrote:Flashier off seasons than Wolves in the West:

Suns (Beal, Eric Gordon, Bol Bol, Watanabe)
Lakers (Gabe Vincent, Prince, Jaxson Hayes, Reddish)
Warriors (Paul)
Dallas (Grant Williams, Lively)
OKC (Holmgren, Micic)
Wolves (Milton, Brown Jr)

Fixed.

And if you're including Holmgren for the Thunder, you may as well include Towns for us.
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Re: 2023-24 preseason 

Post#100 » by thinktank » Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:57 pm

Klomp wrote:
thinktank wrote:Flashier off seasons than Wolves in the West:

Suns (Beal, Eric Gordon, Bol Bol, Watanabe)
Lakers (Gabe Vincent, Prince, Jaxson Hayes, Reddish)
Warriors (Paul)
Dallas (Grant Williams, Lively)
OKC (Holmgren, Micic)
Wolves (Milton, Brown Jr)

Fixed.

And if you're including Holmgren for the Thunder, you may as well include Towns for us.


That’s fair. I see what you did there.

I’m just saying, it’s clear we didn’t have a significantly better off-season than at least half the division.

Media doesn’t grade us out that way either.

Several teams added BIG GUNS. We did not. Now 50 games of KAT may counter act that. We’ll need it.

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