O'Connor: The Magic Should Trade for Jrue Holiday

[OrlChamps2030]

I’d rather keep Fultz at this point. His stats compared to JRue at the same age are pretty close to identical, with JRue shooting slightly more from 3 as the only real difference.

JRue age 24 (6th season)
32.6 mpg
14.8 ppg (13.4fgas, 3.4 3fgas, 1.8ftas)
3 rpg
6.9 apg
1.6 spg
2.3 tov

Fultz age 24 (6th season)
29 mpg
14 ppg (11.4fgas, 1.5 3fgas, 2.4ftas)
3.9 rpg
5.7 apg
1.5 spg
2.3 tov

I’d rather gamble on us unlocking the next JRue in Fultz who is a player on his incline instead of taking a better and more experienced version of him who is on his decline.

JRue is a great player, don’t get me wrong, but I also don’t think his level of greatness is beyond the reach of Fultz or Suggs. I don’t think our players need him to teach us how to fight for a playoff spot either.

Fultz as the next Jrue seems like a weird comparison

Jrue:
3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2018, 2021, 2023)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2019, 2022)

[Residual-Heat]

Magic in: Jrue
Magic out: Denver pick, 2024 1st top 8 protected, Fultz, Harris

I would do this in a heartbeat. And I'd offer Holiday a large, but short-term years extension on top of it.

[Knightro]

Jrue age 24 (6th season)
3.4 3fgas at 38%

Fultz age 24 (6th season)
1.5 3fgas at 31%

It truly cannot be overstated how much of a difference this is. It's night and day.

It's the difference between a valuable player and a non-valuable player frankly.

[VFX]

Jrue age 24 (6th season)
3.4 3fgas at 38%

Fultz age 24 (6th season)
1.5 3fgas at 31%

It truly cannot be overstated how much of a difference this is. It's night and day.

It's the difference between a valuable player and a non-valuable player frankly.

Let’s also not completely overlook that Jrue is one of the best defenders at his position in the league.

Invaluable for young guys like Black and Suggs to learn from.

[Bensational]

Jrue age 24 (6th season)
3.4 3fgas at 38%

Fultz age 24 (6th season)
1.5 3fgas at 31%

It truly cannot be overstated how much of a difference this is. It's night and day.

It's the difference between a valuable player and a non-valuable player frankly.

Don’t sell yourself short, I think you’re doing a fantastic job of overstating it! To the point it’s the difference between a valuable opinion and a non-valuable opinion.

[Knightro]

Don’t sell yourself short, I think you’re doing a fantastic job of overstating it! To the point it’s the difference between a valuable opinion and a non-valuable opinion.

I get that you feel differently about Fultz than I do and that's fine. You're entitled to like players however you choose to like them.

But this willful ignorance about three point shooting and how important it is to having success in the modern NBA landscape is just bizarre and something I'll never fully wrap my head around.

[Audi]

Jrue age 24 (6th season)
3.4 3fgas at 38%

Fultz age 24 (6th season)
1.5 3fgas at 31%

It truly cannot be overstated how much of a difference this is. It's night and day.

It's the difference between a valuable player and a non-valuable player frankly.

SGA last season
2.5 3fga at 34%

A some-what valuable player.

[VFX]

People acting like skill sets don’t matter in how an offense is run and defenses adjust.

Are people next going to argue that Fultz is better than Jrue next to Paolo?

[Knightro]

SGA last season
2.5 3fga at 34%

A some-what valuable player.

Are you referring to the SGA with the .535 FT rate?

Because I'm not super confident that Fultz is gonna get there either

[Audi]

SGA last season
2.5 3fga at 34%

A some-what valuable player.

Are you referring to the SGA with the .535 FT rate?

Because I'm not super confident that Fultz is gonna get there either

Just applying your own logic to other players, don’t mind me!

[Knightro]

Just applying your own logic to other players, don’t mind me!

Some of this stuff is just assumed, ya know?

Three pointers are obviously incredibly important. They're so important so that if you're a player who doesn't take and doesn't make them, you have to be top of the food chain good at something else that's efficient offensively - like getting to the FT line.

But I didn't think that needed to be explained candidly.

[Audi]

Just applying your own logic to other players, don’t mind me!

Some of these stuff is just assumed, ya know?

Three pointers are obviously incredibly important. They're so important so that if you're a player who doesn't take and doesn't make them, you have to be top of the food chain good at something else that's efficient offensively - like getting to the FT line.

But I didn't think that needed to be explained candidly.

Yea, just generally being good in situations where the majority of players typically aren’t, like in ISO, helps.

[Knightro]

Yea, just generally being good in situations where the majority of players typically aren’t aren’t, like in ISO, helps.

Tying it back to Fultz...

He doesn't take or make threes. *Maybe* that changes this season, but I'm highly skeptical it does.

But he also doesn't get to the FT line at an even average level. *Maybe* that also changes this season, but I'm highly skeptical it does either.

So what are we left with? A below average offensive player without a tangibly clear path to become one unless he completely overhauls some piece of his offensive repertoire that he's never shown in six NBA seasons?

[Bensational]

Don’t sell yourself short, I think you’re doing a fantastic job of overstating it! To the point it’s the difference between a valuable opinion and a non-valuable opinion.

I get that you feel differently about Fultz than I do and that's fine. You're entitled to like players however you choose to like them.

But this willful ignorance about three point shooting and how important it is to having success in the modern NBA landscape is just bizarre and something I'll never fully wrap my head around.

The wilful ignorance is in assuming I don’t value 3’s just because I don’t buy into your sweeping generalisations.

[VFX]

Don’t sell yourself short, I think you’re doing a fantastic job of overstating it! To the point it’s the difference between a valuable opinion and a non-valuable opinion.

I get that you feel differently about Fultz than I do and that's fine. You're entitled to like players however you choose to like them.

But this willful ignorance about three point shooting and how important it is to having success in the modern NBA landscape is just bizarre and something I'll never fully wrap my head around.

The wilful ignorance is in assuming I don’t value 3’s just because I don’t buy into your sweeping generalisations.

Then what is the argument you are making when you post Jrue and Fultz 3pa side by side?

[Knightro]

The wilful ignorance is in assuming I don’t value 3’s just because I don’t buy into your sweeping generalisations.

So you just have a Fultz blind spot then?

Because it doesn't seem like it can be both.

[Knightro]

Also worth noting…

When Jrue was 24, league wide pace was 93.9, teams averaged exactly 100.0 points per game and the league average TS% was .534.

When Fultz was 24, league wide pace was 99.1, teams averaged 114.7 points per game and the league average TS% was .581.

So these cross comparisons of raw stat totals when two players were the same age is a bit silly without the context of how different the league was playing even 8-9 years ago.

[Skybox]

Also worth noting…

When Jrue was 24, league wide pace was 93.9, teams averaged exactly 100.0 points per game and the league average TS% was .534.

When Fultz was 24, league wide pace was 99.1, teams averaged 114.7 points per game and the league average TS% was .581.

So these cross comparisons of raw stat totals when two players were the same age is a bit silly without the context of how different the league was playing even 8-9 years ago.

Silly for a lot of reasons…Zach Lowe, for one, voted Jrue for all-NBA LAST YEAR…2 completely different levels of player and, without insane degree of homer rationalizing, way too big a gap to ever close. We can argue cost, likelihood of re-signing, age etc but there is ZERO argument to be made re: relative talent of the two

[pepe1991]

Jrue was allstar at age of 22
At age of 21, he was second leading scoring on team that went to second round of playoffs ( and pushed to 7 games against Boston team).

During Jrue's 6th season 26% of all FGA were 3s.
Now, 3s made 38% of all shots.

Again, you can argue value,trades, chances of retirment, but you can't really argue that Jrue Holiday is like Lambo compared to Magic Yugo-/Fiat Tipo guards.

[Knightro]

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Brogdon, Timelord, 2024 1st via GSW, 2029 Boston 1st