2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

[OhayoKD]

Ayton was a terrible, detrimental player on both ends last year who waned as the playoffs went on. Getting a cerebral banger like Nurkic is a huge net positive for them.

Probably the only move I like from Phoenix in the past two seasons. Too bad it took trading away the tire roster for them to make it.

Nurkic containing Giannis’ penetration in the 21 finals instead of no instincts Ayton could’ve flipped the series. Maybe, possibly. Who knows. I know pre-injury Nurkic makes them favorites for sure though.

Ayton was very much still their best defender lol

[OhayoKD]

Don't really see how it reflects poorly on Dame.

Crowing about loyalty and then making a trade demand and bailing, you mean? You don't see how that reflects poorly on him?

He bailed after management blatantly lied to him about what their plans were for several years.

[Doctor MJ]

I refuse to believe these international stars would leave their first city especially the accomplished ones with championships. Even if this Lillard experiment crashes I doubt Giannis would have left whether the trade happened or not.

Don't know about the rest, but European players don't seem to have the Los Angeles/Miami obsession, especially if parties/night life and other commercial opportunities are not your priority. Gannis and Jokic are already treated like kings in Wisconsin and Colorado, and with huge money you can live great anywhere. I don't think they perceive much difference between Chicago and Orlando or San Antonio (whereas american players probably do)

New York is fascinating to me at least, because it's THE international city, so If I had leverage (not a role player) I would definitely try to get there.


Doncic as well, but maybe he likes the spotlights just a tad more I feel. We'll see.

My guess is that with any international player it's more just a question of whether you think the basketball situation is good. Some guys will be more jump-prone than others, but a guy who is in the best position to win a title isn't likely to want out like a Kyrie.

I do see Doncic as being more jump-prone, and I see the Mavs as largely out of moves to make, so it seems likely they'll lose him unfortunately - hoping I'm wrong for the sake of Mav fans - but I doubt he'll be trying to get to any particular city.

[Doctor MJ]

Don't really see how it reflects poorly on Dame.

Crowing about loyalty and then making a trade demand and bailing, you mean? You don't see how that reflects poorly on him?

He bailed after management blatantly lied to him about what their plans were for several years.

I don't really see what Portland was doing as lying over the past few years. I think they were legit trying to build around him right up until they won the lottery and decided Scoot was too good to pass up.

[OhayoKD]

Crowing about loyalty and then making a trade demand and bailing, you mean? You don't see how that reflects poorly on him?

He bailed after management blatantly lied to him about what their plans were for several years.

I don't really see what Portland was doing as lying over the past few years. I think they were legit trying to build around him right up until they won the lottery and decided Scoot was too good to pass up.

the issue is even --with this draft-- management was telling dame and publicly telling the fans they were drafting to improve immediately and build a contender around dame specifically saying that the team was too young and they were willing to risk passing on/trading a great young gem who turned out to look great in order to build a contender around dame:

Watch on YouTube

It's fine and dandy to start a rebuild, but Joe Cronin was not honest with dame or portland fans about his intentions right through the 2023 draft.

[Doctor MJ]

He bailed after management blatantly lied to him about what their plans were for several years.

I don't really see what Portland was doing as lying over the past few years. I think they were legit trying to build around him right up until they won the lottery and decided Scoot was too good to pass up.

the issue is even --with this draft-- management was telling dame and publicly telling the fans they were drafting to improve immediately and build a contender around dame specifically saying that the team was too young and they were willing to risk passing on/trading a great young gem who turned out to look great in order to build a contender around dame:

Watch on YouTube

It's fine and dandy to start a rebuild, but Joe Cronin was not honest with dame or portland fans about his intentions right through the 2023 draft.

Makes sense to take issue with that, but I don't think it's the same as them lying for years.

I also think that the Blazers were looking to see what they could get for the #2 pick, and had they got the right offer, they'd have kept rolling with the Dame generation.

I do think these franchises in general have a tendency to not tell the whole truth to their players and I don't want to act like they can't be criticized for that...at the same time, the reason they don't tell these players the whole truth is because they fear how the player will react if they tell them the truth, and they are wise to fear it.

And of course they are also reasonable to fear simply telling players, "You have no right to know everything we're thinking. We could trade you at any time."

This puts them in this bind where they feel compelled to let the player in on everything right up until the point where things aren't quite working out, at which point either telling the truth or refusing to talk will likely blow up the relationship right at a point where trade value is critical. So there's naturally a brief period of "Yeah, things are still fine" when they no longer are, that they can be criticized for, but is in their best interest.

[parsnips33]

Both sides (Lillard and the Blazers) were looking out for their best interests and I don't think you can really say either side is wrong to do that

With that being said, I'm not going to lift the curse I put on the Blazers organization for GPII trade related shenanigans. But the right Jrue Holiday to the Warriors trade could be Cronin's best way out at this point...

[Doctor MJ]

Both sides (Lillard and the Blazers) were looking out for their best interests and I don't think you can really say either side is wrong to do that

With that being said, I'm not going to lift the curse I put on the Blazers organization for GPII trade related shenanigans. But the right Jrue Holiday to the Warriors trade could be Cronin's best way out at this point...

Paul to the Blazers because he wants to start?

[parsnips33]

Lillard missed the last 10 games of the season - was that injury related or tanking by Portland?

I don't see it as a given that Dame is in the middle of some steep decline - last year was one of his better seasons

Obviously time only moves in one direction, but every player is gonna age differently

Saw some reporting that this was essentially tanking by Portland, but was classified as a calf injury

[RSCD3_]

I feel like the window for success for the Bucks with the Lillard trade is like ONE year.

Lillard is well into the downslope after his peak, is 33 years old, hasn't had a fully healthy year in awhile, either. I expect these things to get worse with each passing year.
It's a now or never move, and while I think it raises their chances for '24, I feel like it's a long-term loss for the franchise......UNLESS this truly convinces Giannis to stay for the duration of his meaningful career, AND he otherwise [void convincing] would have left.

Jrue's a good player, and Allen was meaningful-minute role player. Swapping them for Lillard feels like only a small upgrade overall (though maybe I underestimate what Lillard is still capable of); but then factor in the future picks and pick swaps they're sacrificing (the unprotected 1st rounder could be a high one, too), feels like a bit of a selling the future for a 1-time shot at another title (for human action, in its short-sightedness). Seems near guaranteed the Bucks will suck circa-2030.

I probably tend to be a conservative gambler, though, desiring steady performance. Perhaps I'd suck as a GM.

FWIW he revealed via a source, that the last ten games he was ready to go but they shut him down for pick potential so that's 68 games if he played them all maybe 64-66 otherwise

[HeartBreakKid]

Yeah, I vaguely remember he was more told to stay at home rather than not being able to compete. I do believe that not competing was one of the stated reasons he has given for wanting to leave (or leaked reasons?).

[MyUniBroDavis]

Ayton was a terrible, detrimental player on both ends last year who waned as the playoffs went on. Getting a cerebral banger like Nurkic is a huge net positive for them.

Probably the only move I like from Phoenix in the past two seasons. Too bad it took trading away the tire roster for them to make it.

Nurkic containing Giannis’ penetration in the 21 finals instead of no instincts Ayton could’ve flipped the series. Maybe, possibly. Who knows. I know pre-injury Nurkic makes them favorites for sure though.

Ayton was very much still their best defender lol

Him saying this the only year ayton was good on defense is hilarious

[MyUniBroDavis]

I hope lillard is the worst defender ever because this is nasty for the rest of the league

Bucks went from struggling in the halfcourt to having one of the most potent pick and roll combos in history if it works out this is nasty lol

On ball dames even more of a pain than Steph in some ways smfh

At least they lost most of their defense on the perimeter

[itsxtray]

I hope lillard is the worst defender ever because this is nasty for the rest of the league

Bucks went from struggling in the halfcourt to having one of the most potent pick and roll combos in history if it works out this is nasty lol

On ball dames even more of a pain than Steph in some ways smfh

At least they lost most of their defense on the perimeter

Yep, even at 33 Dame's burst is on a different level from even prime Steph and he's much better at drawing fouls while being a %90 shooter himself. Those pick and rolls and dho's with Giannis should be deadly.

Thinking basketball said on their most recent podcast that Giannis was only involved in the pick & roll as a roller on 6% of his possessions and has never been over 12% if i remember correctly. Dame can unlock a downhill monster in Giannis, which is what people have been wanting for years. **** could get scary.

[OhayoKD]

I don't really see what Portland was doing as lying over the past few years. I think they were legit trying to build around him right up until they won the lottery and decided Scoot was too good to pass up.

the issue is even --with this draft-- management was telling dame and publicly telling the fans they were drafting to improve immediately and build a contender around dame specifically saying that the team was too young and they were willing to risk passing on/trading a great young gem who turned out to look great in order to build a contender around dame:

Watch on YouTube

It's fine and dandy to start a rebuild, but Joe Cronin was not honest with dame or portland fans about his intentions right through the 2023 draft.

Makes sense to take issue with that, but I don't think it's the same as them lying for years.

I also think that the Blazers were looking to see what they could get for the #2 pick, and had they got the right offer, they'd have kept rolling with the Dame generation.

I do think these franchises in general have a tendency to not tell the whole truth to their players and I don't want to act like they can't be criticized for that...at the same time, the reason they don't tell these players the whole truth is because they fear how the player will react if they tell them the truth, and they are wise to fear it.

And of course they are also reasonable to fear simply telling players, "You have no right to know everything we're thinking. We could trade you at any time."

This puts them in this bind where they feel compelled to let the player in on everything right up until the point where things aren't quite working out, at which point either telling the truth or refusing to talk will likely blow up the relationship right at a point where trade value is critical. So there's naturally a brief period of "Yeah, things are still fine" when they no longer are, that they can be criticized for, but is in their best interest.

Sure. but the context was the assertion dame was changing his tune about loyalty when he was apparently trying to get his team stars like jaylen brown right up until it became obvious they were not reciprocating back his loyalty. Portland decided to go for their own self-interest over loyalty to dame first. Dame leaving afterwards doesn't mean he stopped valuing loyalty

[OhayoKD]

Ayton was a terrible, detrimental player on both ends last year who waned as the playoffs went on. Getting a cerebral banger like Nurkic is a huge net positive for them.

Probably the only move I like from Phoenix in the past two seasons. Too bad it took trading away the tire roster for them to make it.

Nurkic containing Giannis’ penetration in the 21 finals instead of no instincts Ayton could’ve flipped the series. Maybe, possibly. Who knows. I know pre-injury Nurkic makes them favorites for sure though.

Ayton was very much still their best defender lol

Him saying this the only year ayton was good on defense is hilarious

almost as funny as nurkic containing giannis

[MyUniBroDavis]

I hope lillard is the worst defender ever because this is nasty for the rest of the league

Bucks went from struggling in the halfcourt to having one of the most potent pick and roll combos in history if it works out this is nasty lol

On ball dames even more of a pain than Steph in some ways smfh

At least they lost most of their defense on the perimeter

Yep, even at 33 Dame's burst is on a different level from even prime Steph and he's much better at drawing fouls while being a %90 shooter himself. Those pick and rolls and dho's with Giannis should be deadly.

Thinking basketball said on their most recent podcast that Giannis was only involved in the pick & roll as a roller on 6% of his possessions and has never been over 12% if i remember correctly. Dame can unlock a downhill monster in Giannis, which is what people have been wanting for years. **** could get scary.

I think steph is a better decision maker and playmaker, but Dame is probably a better in vs switches in isolation and can break blitzes and traps better himself (curry the best playmaker vs those coverages in the league though).

I thought Dame was better on those 30+ footer deep threes than curry is/maybe even was, but nah that isnt true, at least vs 16-21 curry it isnt.

[itsxtray]

I hope lillard is the worst defender ever because this is nasty for the rest of the league

Bucks went from struggling in the halfcourt to having one of the most potent pick and roll combos in history if it works out this is nasty lol

On ball dames even more of a pain than Steph in some ways smfh

At least they lost most of their defense on the perimeter

Yep, even at 33 Dame's burst is on a different level from even prime Steph and he's much better at drawing fouls while being a %90 shooter himself. Those pick and rolls and dho's with Giannis should be deadly.

Thinking basketball said on their most recent podcast that Giannis was only involved in the pick & roll as a roller on 6% of his possessions and has never been over 12% if i remember correctly. Dame can unlock a downhill monster in Giannis, which is what people have been wanting for years. **** could get scary.

I think steph is a better decision maker and playmaker, but Dame is probably a better in vs switches in isolation and can break blitzes and traps better himself (curry the best playmaker vs those coverages in the league though).

I thought Dame was better on those 30+ footer deep threes than curry is/maybe even was, but nah that isnt true, at least vs 16-21 curry it isnt.

Yeah, Steph is definitely a better playmaker and better passing out of traps. Watching Dame highlights since the trade just made me realize how insane Dame's burst still is at his age, he can still get around anyone. He goes between the legs and then just accelerates, Steph even in his prime didn't burst that fast. The screen being set 30 feet out combined with Dame's burst/pull up made him maybe the best on ball pick & roll scorer in the league. Him looking more for the pass in those situations will be the balance to strike this season with Giannis.

I'm really curious about what they're going to do on offense, the possibilities are numerous. Hopefully Adrian Griffin and his staff are up to the task.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yep, even at 33 Dame's burst is on a different level from even prime Steph and he's much better at drawing fouls while being a %90 shooter himself. Those pick and rolls and dho's with Giannis should be deadly.

Thinking basketball said on their most recent podcast that Giannis was only involved in the pick & roll as a roller on 6% of his possessions and has never been over 12% if i remember correctly. Dame can unlock a downhill monster in Giannis, which is what people have been wanting for years. **** could get scary.

I think steph is a better decision maker and playmaker, but Dame is probably a better in vs switches in isolation and can break blitzes and traps better himself (curry the best playmaker vs those coverages in the league though).

I thought Dame was better on those 30+ footer deep threes than curry is/maybe even was, but nah that isnt true, at least vs 16-21 curry it isnt.

Yeah, Steph is definitely a better playmaker and better passing out of traps. Watching Dame highlights since the trade just made me realize how insane Dame's burst still is at his age, he can still get around anyone. He goes between the legs and then just accelerates, Steph even in his prime didn't burst that fast. The screen being set 30 feet out combined with Dame's burst/pull up made him maybe the best on ball pick & roll scorer in the league. Him looking more for the pass in those situations will be the balance to strike this season with Giannis.

I'm really curious about what they're going to do on offense, the possibilities are numerous. Hopefully Adrian Griffin and his staff are up to the task.

They probably aren’t come playoff time lol, their solution to not knowing how to run 5 out in 2020 was to run 4 out 1 in

[OhayoKD]

I think steph is a better decision maker and playmaker, but Dame is probably a better in vs switches in isolation and can break blitzes and traps better himself (curry the best playmaker vs those coverages in the league though).

I thought Dame was better on those 30+ footer deep threes than curry is/maybe even was, but nah that isnt true, at least vs 16-21 curry it isnt.

Yeah, Steph is definitely a better playmaker and better passing out of traps. Watching Dame highlights since the trade just made me realize how insane Dame's burst still is at his age, he can still get around anyone. He goes between the legs and then just accelerates, Steph even in his prime didn't burst that fast. The screen being set 30 feet out combined with Dame's burst/pull up made him maybe the best on ball pick & roll scorer in the league. Him looking more for the pass in those situations will be the balance to strike this season with Giannis.

I'm really curious about what they're going to do on offense, the possibilities are numerous. Hopefully Adrian Griffin and his staff are up to the task.

They probably aren’t come playoff time lol, their solution to not knowing how to run 5 out in 2020 was to run 4 out 1 in

I really wanted them to get nurse. Seems like Giannis may never get to be maximized in his prime