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Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread

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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1381 » by wewillnevertank » Fri Sep 29, 2023 5:07 pm

doclinkin wrote:
wewillnevertank wrote:I hear what you guys are saying about Bilal re: G League and bringing him along slowly. From my perspective, there's a fine line between between bringing him along slowly and wasting his time. There's honestly zero precedent of a top 10 pick going to G League for any amount of time and living up to that billing. It's just not what competent orgs do. Wes suggesting that Bilal would go there feels like he's closer to Bruno Caboclo than circa-2013 Giannis, and that's concerning.


Whatever minutes we end up playing Bilal at the beginning of the year will not be what he sees by the end of the year. Whether because he is good enough to force the team to play him, or due to holes in the roster as they crop up. Nate cites injuries, sure, but I also think this front office won't be gunshy about trades. Clearing space in front of him or consolidating roster spots on a 2-f0r-1 deal or 1-for-none for picks and Trade Player Exceptions.

Bilal is on a rookie deal, locked in cheap for a few years. Deni is in a contract year. We have to see what Deni can show us to decide what to do with that contract. Put up or shut up. Re-up him cheap? Shop him to a team that sees value? Let's find out.

I can see a coach like Thibs appreciating his defensive game. (And you know, having lived there, I gotta say the NY media market would not hate having an Israeli national playing in either a Knicks or Nets Jersey. Though if he feels pressure in DC, he'd surely feel the weight there. Whereas Kuzma would love the attention win or lose.)

Not that i am shopping Deni myself (but Kuzma....) I'm just saying any player is available if the bids are high enough. If Deni starts looking good but Bilal is legit threatening his minutes, we might see some offers that would be tough to turn away. Likewise a rehabbed Gallinari. Or pick a guy ahead of him in the depth chart.

Still, look, the reason you rarely see top picks stick in the G League for long is because they are too good to stay there. No one will force Bilal to stick at the lower level if he is earning minutes. Wes is only setting up healthy competition when he says everyone will have an opportunity. If Bilal is as good as we all hope and expect then he will force the issue. That's a good thing. That's what happens on winning teams. This is not an 'orange slices for everybody' little league sort of deal. Just because you were drafted high does not mean you deserve a free pass. If he is good then he will play. If we legitimately have minutes battles between Deni, Kuzma, Kispert, Bilal, and Baldwin, then I see that as nothing but positive. That means a rookie and/or a cast-off 6'10" stretch big are showing enough success that they are pushing aside older more accomplished players. Nice. Maybe we will be good someday when they themselves have 4-7 years in the league.


I definitely understand that a G League assignment, on its face, is not a death sentence. And I'm not suggesting orange slices for everyone. Just simply noting precedent. Even someone as raw as the 2013 version of Giannis never saw time in the G, and he wasn't even a lottery pick. It took about 3-4 years for Giannis to really pop, and that's about what I expect for Bilal, regardless of where that PD comes from.

All that said, I think where the people opposed to the short-term assignment are coming from is a perspective of being sold one thing and getting another, which we're all too familiar with from the Ernie and Tommy eras. It's not just about Bilal, per se. It's more, is this the beginning of us being led to believe something that isn't actually happening? Of course, there's many ways to skin the rebuilding cat, but this feels awfully similar to Tommy's declaration that Johnny Davis could play PG, and then after a poor summer league, gets castigated. Bilal didn't struggle nearly as much in SL, and I think his floor is higher than it's been given credit for.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1382 » by payitforward » Fri Sep 29, 2023 11:59 pm

Better to say, 'yeah he may play some minutes in the G League,' & be wrong later b/c he shows strong right away than to say, 'nah he won't spend any time in the G League," & then have to send him there later -- even if it's just to get him a lot of minutes.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1383 » by DCZards » Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:46 pm

wewillnevertank wrote:I definitely understand that a G League assignment, on its face, is not a death sentence. And I'm not suggesting orange slices for everyone. Just simply noting precedent. Even someone as raw as the 2013 version of Giannis never saw time in the G, and he wasn't even a lottery pick. It took about 3-4 years for Giannis to really pop, and that's about what I expect for Bilal, regardless of where that PD comes from.

This is a very different G League than the one that was around 10 years ago when Giannis was a rookie. In today's G League, there's an increased emphasis on player development. It's not just someplace teams send players who are not ready for the big team.

In addition, there's an almost seamless relationship between the Wizards and the Go-Go where players will play with the Go-Go on an off day for the Zards and then be in a Zards uni the next night. That allows a team like the Zards to get someone like Bilal the optimum playing time and oncourt experience.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1384 » by nate33 » Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:59 pm

DCZards wrote:
wewillnevertank wrote:I definitely understand that a G League assignment, on its face, is not a death sentence. And I'm not suggesting orange slices for everyone. Just simply noting precedent. Even someone as raw as the 2013 version of Giannis never saw time in the G, and he wasn't even a lottery pick. It took about 3-4 years for Giannis to really pop, and that's about what I expect for Bilal, regardless of where that PD comes from.

This is a very different G League than the one that was around 10 years ago when Giannis was a rookie. In today's G League, there's an increased emphasis on player development. It's not just someplace teams send players who are not ready for the big team.

In addition, there's an almost seamless relationship between the Wizards and the Go-Go where players will play with the Go-Go on an off day for the Zards and then be in a Zards uni the next night. That allows a team like the Zards to get someone like Bilal the optimum playing time and oncourt experience.

Good point, DCZards.

I think your point is one of two big differences in today's game relative to just 3 or 4 years ago. The G-League is better now, and more integrated with the NBA system.

The other big difference is the minimum salary threshold. The bottom feeders of the NBA will be more competitive now. Even really bad teams have no choice but to bring in some capable vets who will inevitably take up a lot of minutes that used to go to developing guys. Houston brought in VanVleet, Brooks and Jeff Green. The Pistons added Joe Harris and Monte Morris. The Spurs brought in Reggie Bullock. With fewer minutes available in the NBA, and with the G-League being much stronger and better oriented for player development, it's going to make more sense for rebuilding teams with lots of young guys to utilize the resources of the G-League.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1385 » by FAH1223 » Sun Oct 1, 2023 12:49 am

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
wewillnevertank wrote:I definitely understand that a G League assignment, on its face, is not a death sentence. And I'm not suggesting orange slices for everyone. Just simply noting precedent. Even someone as raw as the 2013 version of Giannis never saw time in the G, and he wasn't even a lottery pick. It took about 3-4 years for Giannis to really pop, and that's about what I expect for Bilal, regardless of where that PD comes from.

This is a very different G League than the one that was around 10 years ago when Giannis was a rookie. In today's G League, there's an increased emphasis on player development. It's not just someplace teams send players who are not ready for the big team.

In addition, there's an almost seamless relationship between the Wizards and the Go-Go where players will play with the Go-Go on an off day for the Zards and then be in a Zards uni the next night. That allows a team like the Zards to get someone like Bilal the optimum playing time and oncourt experience.

Good point, DCZards.

I think your point is one of two big differences in today's game relative to just 3 or 4 years ago. The G-League is better now, and more integrated with the NBA system.

The other big difference is the minimum salary threshold. The bottom feeders of the NBA will be more competitive now. Even really bad teams have no choice but to bring in some capable vets who will inevitably take up a lot of minutes that used to go to developing guys. Houston brought in VanVleet, Brooks and Jeff Green. The Pistons added Joe Harris and Monte Morris. The Spurs brought in Reggie Bullock. With fewer minutes available in the NBA, and with the G-League being much stronger and better oriented for player development, it's going to make more sense for rebuilding teams with lots of young guys to utilize the resources of the G-League.


Spurs just bought Bullock out. :lol:

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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1386 » by nate33 » Sun Oct 1, 2023 1:09 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:This is a very different G League than the one that was around 10 years ago when Giannis was a rookie. In today's G League, there's an increased emphasis on player development. It's not just someplace teams send players who are not ready for the big team.

In addition, there's an almost seamless relationship between the Wizards and the Go-Go where players will play with the Go-Go on an off day for the Zards and then be in a Zards uni the next night. That allows a team like the Zards to get someone like Bilal the optimum playing time and oncourt experience.

Good point, DCZards.

I think your point is one of two big differences in today's game relative to just 3 or 4 years ago. The G-League is better now, and more integrated with the NBA system.

The other big difference is the minimum salary threshold. The bottom feeders of the NBA will be more competitive now. Even really bad teams have no choice but to bring in some capable vets who will inevitably take up a lot of minutes that used to go to developing guys. Houston brought in VanVleet, Brooks and Jeff Green. The Pistons added Joe Harris and Monte Morris. The Spurs brought in Reggie Bullock. With fewer minutes available in the NBA, and with the G-League being much stronger and better oriented for player development, it's going to make more sense for rebuilding teams with lots of young guys to utilize the resources of the G-League.


Spurs just bought Bullock out. :lol:

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Wow, the Spurs are flat out tanking. The only vets over 26 being paid more than the vet minimum are Graham and McDermott. Their active payroll is just $115M. The only reason they made the Salary Minimum is because they have $22M in dead money owed to guys who have been cut.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1387 » by wewillnevertank » Sun Oct 1, 2023 3:53 pm

nate33 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:
nate33 wrote:Good point, DCZards.

I think your point is one of two big differences in today's game relative to just 3 or 4 years ago. The G-League is better now, and more integrated with the NBA system.

The other big difference is the minimum salary threshold. The bottom feeders of the NBA will be more competitive now. Even really bad teams have no choice but to bring in some capable vets who will inevitably take up a lot of minutes that used to go to developing guys. Houston brought in VanVleet, Brooks and Jeff Green. The Pistons added Joe Harris and Monte Morris. The Spurs brought in Reggie Bullock. With fewer minutes available in the NBA, and with the G-League being much stronger and better oriented for player development, it's going to make more sense for rebuilding teams with lots of young guys to utilize the resources of the G-League.


Spurs just bought Bullock out. :lol:

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Wow, the Spurs are flat out tanking. The only vets over 26 being paid more than the vet minimum are Graham and McDermott. Their active payroll is just $115M. The only reason they made the Salary Minimum is because they have $22M in dead money owed to guys who have been cut.


The thought of a Wemby-Flagg duo would make me want to tank, too.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1388 » by doclinkin » Sun Oct 1, 2023 8:43 pm

wewillnevertank wrote:
nate33 wrote:Wow, the Spurs are flat out tanking. The only vets over 26 being paid more than the vet minimum are Graham and McDermott. Their active payroll is just $115M. The only reason they made the Salary Minimum is because they have $22M in dead money owed to guys who have been cut.


The thought of a Wemby-Flagg duo would make me want to tank, too.


The Spurs always find the loophole. Too damn clever. I'm envious.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1389 » by WallToWall » Sun Oct 1, 2023 9:01 pm

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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1390 » by nate33 » Sun Oct 1, 2023 9:15 pm

Devin Vasiljevic, we will always have Summer League!
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1391 » by closg00 » Sun Oct 1, 2023 11:14 pm

Makes you wonder why they didn't just sign Bernard from the jump
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1392 » by BearlyBallin » Sun Oct 1, 2023 11:54 pm

Gafford hurt an elbow falling hard in a pickup game. Out 2-4 weeks but as high as he jumps that could be a long way to fall.
As reported by CBS sports & originally by Josh Robbins of The Athletic.

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Also Shamet breaks a big toe. So I don’t think anyone is trading for him anytime soon.

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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1393 » by wewillnevertank » Mon Oct 2, 2023 1:43 am

BearlyBallin wrote:Gafford hurt an elbow falling hard in a pickup game. Out 2-4 weeks but as high as he jumps that could be a long way to fall.
As reported by CBS sports & originally by Josh Robbins of The Athletic.

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Also Shamet breaks a big toe. So I don’t think anyone is trading for him anytime soon.

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Ugh. I'm not the biggest fan of either, but you hate to see injuries.

From a pure basketball perspective, Gaff being out this close to the season gives Gill and Cooks a much better chance of surviving the final roster cut. And it'll mean more minutes/reps for Davis, which he really needs.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1394 » by gambitx777 » Mon Oct 2, 2023 2:46 am

Well shameets is only 2-4 weeks too that's not too bad

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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1395 » by nate33 » Mon Oct 2, 2023 1:01 pm

BearlyBallin wrote:Also Shamet breaks a big toe. So I don’t think anyone is trading for him anytime soon.

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Surprised it's only 2-4 weeks for a broken toe.

I wonder if he will need to be in a boot, which would undermine his conditioning and lead an even longer recovery as he gets back into shape.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1396 » by nate33 » Mon Oct 2, 2023 1:05 pm

BearlyBallin wrote:Gafford hurt an elbow falling hard in a pickup game. Out 2-4 weeks but as high as he jumps that could be a long way to fall.
As reported by CBS sports & originally by Josh Robbins of The Athletic.

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The first game of the season is October 25, three-and-a-half weeks away. He'll miss training camp but hopefully not too much of the season. And since it's an upper body injury, he will hopefully be able to maintain his conditioning and maybe even participate in non-contact drills as the elbow improves.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1397 » by nate33 » Mon Oct 2, 2023 1:11 pm

The Shamet injury will hopefully greenlight the idea of playing Kispert at backup SG when Poole sits. That should free up more minutes for Deni and maybe even give Bilal a short stint on the 2nd unit rotation.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1398 » by Frichuela » Mon Oct 2, 2023 7:05 pm

Looks like Muscala & Gafford will have competition fighting for minutes at the 5...

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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1399 » by nate33 » Mon Oct 2, 2023 10:01 pm

Frichuela wrote:Looks like Muscala & Gafford will have competition fighting for minutes at the 5...

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This is really good news. Playing Gallo at center should improve the offensive flow while also freeing up minutes at PF for Avdija to play there. (Which frees up more minutes at SF for Coulibaly.)

The downside is the defense will be terrible without a rim protector and stout rebounder at the 5. Though, that's arguably a good thing too because it will ensure more losses and a higher draft pick.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#1400 » by wewillnevertank » Mon Oct 2, 2023 11:35 pm

nate33 wrote:This is really good news. Playing Gallo at center should improve the offensive flow while also freeing up minutes at PF for Avdija to play there. (Which frees up more minutes at SF for Coulibaly.)

The downside is the defense will be terrible without a rim protector and stout rebounder at the 5. Though, that's arguably a good thing too because it will ensure more losses and a higher draft pick.


The reality is there's no way, with this roster, we can scrape together a realistic lineup that is even close to competitive on defense. Even at full health. Might as well lean into the pace-and-space mentality.

Plus, it's not like Gallo is especially new to minutes at the 5. That's what he did in Atlanta in stretches, and IIRC, while he looked kinda stiff defending 5s, he did decently.

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