O'Connor: The Magic Should Trade for Jrue Holiday

Residual-Heat · Post #121 » by **Residual-Heat** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 4:07 pm

Damn... Well can we trade Fultz, Harris and a pick for Brogdon and Williams? :lol:

yoyojw17 · Post #122 » by **yoyojw17** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 4:31 pm

Knightro wrote:Also worth noting…

When Jrue was 24, league wide pace was 93.9, teams averaged exactly 100.0 points per game and the league average TS% was .534.

When Fultz was 24, league wide pace was 99.1, teams averaged 114.7 points per game and the league average TS% was .581.

So these cross comparisons of raw stat totals when two players were the same age is a bit silly without the context of how different the league was playing even 8-9 years ago.

I'm not sure why we're comparing these in the first place anyway.

Non factor are apparently Fultz returning from injury on a team searching for an identity. Mind youhe also had horrid luck prior in his development due to "mystery injuries" and injuries. If people are already arguing about Black's Howard's lack of development if they had to ride the bench for a part or all of the season. Imagine not physically being able to play and not knowing why you lose power on your shot. getting a knee injury that kept you out for a season +extended due to tanking.... and then getting nancy Carrigan'ed by furniture on the big return season. lol

Mind you yeah... Jrue holiday had his fair share of injuries around that time as well.... annnnnnd he was on a team with Anthony Davis going into his third season... tyreke evans and eric gordon on the team.... tons of factors, variables, uncertainties, and unknowns.

NOW... needless to say... last season was a great comeback showing by Fultz... and you can choose to either think that this is the best we can expect.... overlooking all circumstances... or be enthralled in what he can possibly become... and that's where these arguments stem.

I LOVE ME some Jrue Holiday.... and would love him on this team... but as many have said... at what price with contract situation and age being in limbo. He could literally become a 1 year rental on a team that is looking for an identity and something to build off of. Fultz is a couple three pointers and free throws away from possibly making people happy.... and i think he has the talent to close that gap.

today is the first day i think he is eligible for extension... we'll see what the team thinks about him during their evaluations.

Post #123 » by **eyriq** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 4:36 pm

Knightro wrote:

Read on Twitter

Brogdon, Timelord, 2024 1st via GSW, 2029 Boston 1st

My initial reaction is that Boston is a huge winner this off-season. They have re-worked their roster beautifully.

Post #124 » by **Knightro** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 4:42 pm

eyriq wrote:My initial reaction is that Boston is a huge winner this off-season. They have re-worked their roster beautifully.

Boston has essentially swapped

Smart, Brogdon, Rob Williams and Grant Williams

for

Porzingis and Jrue

They are likely better 1-5, but they’re definitely not as deep and they rode really good depth the last few years.

yoyojw17 · Post #125 » by **yoyojw17** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 4:49 pm

eyriq wrote:
Knightro wrote:

Read on Twitter

Brogdon, Timelord, 2024 1st via GSW, 2029 Boston 1st
My initial reaction is that Boston is a huge winner this off-season. They have re-worked their roster beautifully.

Yup... agreed. They have retooled well to compete in the east.... well at least their starting lineup. They have sacrificed their depth considerably. Health will be beyond important for their success. Yes... i Know it's important for all teams... but there is a large gap between the starters and the next player up now. But a healthy starting lineup will compete for sure!!

Post #126 » by **SOUL** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 4:51 pm

Boston's top 6 is insane but if they have even just 1 big man injury there will be issues

yoyojw17 · Post #127 » by **yoyojw17** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 4:55 pm

SOUL wrote:Boston's top 6 is insane but if they have even just 1 big man injury there will be issues

Al Horford and Kristaps looks at one another

pepe1991 · Post #128 » by **pepe1991** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 5:12 pm

Knightro wrote:
eyriq wrote:My initial reaction is that Boston is a huge winner this off-season. They have re-worked their roster beautifully.

Boston has essentially swapped

Smart, Brogdon, Rob Williams and Grant Williams

for

Porzingis and Jrue

They are probably be better 1-5, but they’re definitely not as deep and they rode really good depth the last few years.

In playoffs depth is usless, but they need to survive healthy until playoffs.
Heat played 6 and half men most of playoffs last year, and you can argue Bucks should have too

Residual-Heat · Post #129 » by **Residual-Heat** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 5:24 pm

I think the Celtics package beats the max offer i would have made if I was the Magic GM (Harris, Fultz, Denver 1st, Magic 2024 1st). It is what it is.

It probably would make sense for the Magic to see what it would cost to get Brogdon and Williams though. They really would be a great fit for the Magic.

Skybox · Post #130 » by **Skybox** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 5:27 pm

I'd still love to get Time Lord and Brogdon from POR...price keeps getting lower after every POR churn...I love what they've done. Rumor has it they want to keep Time Lord as a nice complement to Ayton.

If we had a frontcourt bench of Williams, Isaac, Jingles, Jett, M. Wagner...wow! Expirings and a pick would probably do it. Not sure if the DEN pick would be enough, but one of our own with some protection? (and Fultz & Harris...)

yoyojw17 · Post #131 » by **yoyojw17** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 5:57 pm

Skybox wrote:I'd still love to get Time Lord and Brogdon from POR...price keeps getting lower after every POR churn...I love what they've done. Rumor has it they want to keep Time Lord as a nice complement to Ayton.

If we had a frontcourt bench of Williams, Isaac, Jingles, Jett, M. Wagner...wow! Expirings and a pick would probably do it. Not sure if the DEN pick would be enough, but one of our own with some protection? (and Fultz & Harris...)

Yeah.... when i saw Robert Williams in the trade... i immediately saw him as a main player for them at the PF and C. Malcolm can have some great secondary minutes at multiple positions for them as well. Loved what they got for Lillard and Nurkic. Great job portland.... holding out and waiting for things to materialize and not just saying... "sending you to miami... for whatever"

pepe1991 · Post #132 » by **pepe1991** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 6:20 pm

Robert WIlliams is very injury prone backup that costs $13M a year to dunk allyoops.

Having him Wendell, Isaac would be crazy. Medical team overworked.

Post #133 » by **Bensational** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 8:13 pm

Celtics consolidated Smart and Brogdon into JRue, and I’m not sure they’ll be better for it. JRue blends both of their strengths but can’t play as many minutes. I think they’ve got the better individual player but weakened their backcourt overall.

Robert and Grant Williams for KP is a great consolidation, but lack of depth might hurt when the injuries roll in.

RookieStar · Post #134 » by **RookieStar** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 10:08 pm

SOUL wrote:Boston's top 6 is insane but if they have even just 1 big man injury there will be issues

Yeah the 37 yr old Horford with the always injured KP?

Who are their backups? Kornet?

Yeah... they better load manage the heck out of them for the PO

RookieStar · Post #135 » by **RookieStar** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 10:10 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Knightro wrote:
eyriq wrote:My initial reaction is that Boston is a huge winner this off-season. They have re-worked their roster beautifully.

Boston has essentially swapped

Smart, Brogdon, Rob Williams and Grant Williams

for

Porzingis and Jrue

They are probably be better 1-5, but they’re definitely not as deep and they rode really good depth the last few years.

In playoffs depth is usless, but they need to survive healthy until playoffs.
Heat played 6 and half men most of playoffs last year, and you can argue Bucks should have too

Even if they come out of the RS healthy, can you see Al and KP playing 42mins each game? They won't survive the 1st round.

Post #136 » by **Bensational** » Sun Oct 1, 2023 11:08 pm

Knightro wrote:
Bensational wrote:The wilful ignorance is in assuming I don’t value 3’s just because I don’t buy into your sweeping generalisations.

So you just have a Fultz blind spot then?

Because it doesn't seem like it can be both.

No blind spot. I just don’t have a target on his back like you do.

VFX · Post #137 » by **VFX** » Mon Oct 2, 2023 12:06 am

Good for Boston.

Now we can overpay for mediocrity next season instead.

Post #138 » by **Knightro** » Mon Oct 2, 2023 12:15 am

Bensational wrote:No blind spot. I just don’t have a target on his back like you do.

So you value three point shooting, but you're wildly in favor of continuing to start the lead guard who doesn't take or make threes.

Help me make it make sense.

Residual-Heat · Post #139 » by **Residual-Heat** » Mon Oct 2, 2023 12:29 am

pepe1991 wrote:Robert WIlliams is very injury prone backup that costs $13M a year to dunk allyoops.

Having him Wendell, Isaac would be crazy. Medical team overworked.

Good rim protector, quick enough to switch and defend smaller players, and he's a good rebounder...

Very limited offensively, yes. Injury prone, yes. But he's easily one of the best back up centers in the league, if not the best.

Post #140 » by **Bensational** » Mon Oct 2, 2023 3:34 am

Knightro wrote:
Bensational wrote:No blind spot. I just don’t have a target on his back like you do.

So you value three point shooting, but you're wildly in favor of continuing to start the lead guard who doesn't take or make threes.

Help me make it make sense.

We've covered this ad nauseam haven't we?

1) I think Fultz, as is, represents a solid floor for a player. He converts efficiently, defends well, distributes well. He has deficits in the X factors of 3's and FTs, but he does have an X factor element as a shifty ball handler who can get to his spots. His performances were trending upwards last season, he has a unique history with injuries which gives me reason to forgive delayed development in his outside shot. He has one season left on his deal. I'm prepared to give him that season.

2) I wasn't blown away by available alternatives this offseason. I don't think we let a franchise defining move slip through our fingers, so keeping Fultz hasn't cost us opportunity, IMO.

3) I think the Magic becoming a competent 3 point shooting team will be a team effort and it will take more than next season. Even if Fultz fails to contribute improved volume and efficiency the other players still have to bring their own improvement, and the team has to figure out how it will best incorporate 3's. And as has been demonstrated previously, Fultz has a positive impact on the 3pt performances of his teammates - so keeping him isn't hurting them.