The Official Jaden McDaniels Thread

[NebWolvesFan]

You get so hung up on offensive counting stats.
People who only look at the surface stats aren't ever going to rate a wing highly who takes 10 shots a game.
People in the league know how good Jaden is.
He is the one guy on our roster outside of Ant that other teams covet.

Forget dollar amounts.
What % of the salary cap do you think Jaden deserves?
rookie max is 25%, vet max is 30%, and supermax is 35%
MLE (average salary) is 9.1%

I'm guessing Jaden's agents might be pushing towards 20% and TC might start negotiations somewhere north of 12%.
I see 15-17% of the salary cap as a very reasonable compromise, and its the area all the recent comps for him tend to lie in, like Cam Johnson for example. His salary starts at 18.9% of the cap, but descends for 2 years.
If his contract was ascending, the first year would start at around 15% of the cap.

Like it or not, Jaden's contract is going to be negotiated around these recent comparisons.
And percentages of the cap at the time the contract is signed dictate these salaries, not lumping players into baskets of who is and who is not worth 30 million dollars a year.

I'm not hung up on Offensive counting stats at all. I play fantasy basketball and I leave players with offensive counting stats to my opponents and win by focusing on other things. I'm generally Mr Positivity when it comes to the wolves. You are generally Mr. Negativity. Funny how you are arguing against me when I take the "REALISTIC" view of Jaden. I'm just stating that Jaden is not considered a star by most. He is considered just a guy. Yet everybody here is saying he will get $30 Million or more annually on his next contract. If other teams actually do covet him it's because they are looking at potential because he's young and not for the player he has been. I'm not saying he can't prove himself worthy of that. If we are the team paying that I hope he proves worth it.

Here is my reference point: Dillon Brooks signed for 21.5Mil per year. DMurray signed for 30mil per year. Brooks actually made the NBA all defensive second team. 15% of NBA Cap in 2023 is actually 20.4mil. So, I am looking for someone that is borderline all star for 30mil.

I could see Jaden getting a contract starting around 22-23 million a year. Defensive players typically make less than offensive stars. But with Jaden's age and the fact that he can hit 3s are close to 40 percent, I think he costs a little bit more. I just want it done. I feel like even at 30 million a year, Jaden could be moved if it came to that. Wing stoppers are always wanted by teams.

[BlacJacMac]

It's not funny. It's a fact. There are sources that don't even rate him among the top 100 players in the NBA. He's generally regarded as a number 4 player on an average team. I agree he's a player who has good potential to improve. My greatest hope/dream for him is he turns into a modern day Scottie Pippen.

You get so hung up on offensive counting stats.
People who only look at the surface stats aren't ever going to rate a wing highly who takes 10 shots a game.
People in the league know how good Jaden is.
He is the one guy on our roster outside of Ant that other teams covet.

Forget dollar amounts.
What % of the salary cap do you think Jaden deserves?
rookie max is 25%, vet max is 30%, and supermax is 35%
MLE (average salary) is 9.1%

I'm guessing Jaden's agents might be pushing towards 20% and TC might start negotiations somewhere north of 12%.
I see 15-17% of the salary cap as a very reasonable compromise, and its the area all the recent comps for him tend to lie in, like Cam Johnson for example. His salary starts at 18.9% of the cap, but descends for 2 years.
If his contract was ascending, the first year would start at around 15% of the cap.

Like it or not, Jaden's contract is going to be negotiated around these recent comparisons.
And percentages of the cap at the time the contract is signed dictate these salaries, not lumping players into baskets of who is and who is not worth 30 million dollars a year.

I'm not hung up on Offensive counting stats at all. I play fantasy basketball and I leave players with offensive counting stats to my opponents and win by focusing on other things. I'm generally Mr Positivity when it comes to the wolves. You are generally Mr. Negativity. Funny how you are arguing against me when I take the "REALISTIC" view of Jaden. I'm just stating that Jaden is not considered a star by most. He is considered just a guy. Yet everybody here is saying he will get $30 Million or more annually on his next contract. If other teams actually do covet him it's because they are looking at potential because he's young and not for the player he has been. I'm not saying he can't prove himself worthy of that. If we are the team paying that I hope he proves worth it.

I think you're listening to the wrong people.

No, the casual fan has no idea who he is. But people who know the game absolutely covet him.

[gandlogo]

He's the third best player on the team. The second most important piece for the future of the team. And the second or third most valuable in terms of a tradable asset. Pay the man.

[minimus]

If TC can lock him to five year deal (without player option) on reasonable price it will be a huge win.

[life_saver]

I feel like the contract Mikal Bridges signed in 2021 is a good reference. Bridges signed a 4 year $90M contract in 2021 and he was coming off a Finals appearance and better offensive production than Jaden. He also had an elite defensive year. I love Jaden but he is currently not a better player than where Mikal was in 2021...even if you account for increased cap now when compared to 2021, I think anything above 4 years $105M+ is an overpay imo

[BlacJacMac]

I feel like the contract Mikal Bridges signed in 2021 is a good reference. Bridges signed a 4 year $90M contract in 2021 and he was coming off a Finals appearance and better offensive production than Jaden. He also had an elite defensive year. I love Jaden but he is currently not a better player than where Mikal was in 2021...even if you account for increased cap now when compared to 2021, I think anything above 4 years $105M+ is an overpay imo

I think you also need to consider that the Bridges contract ended up being a very big underpay.

[Domejandro]

I feel like the contract Mikal Bridges signed in 2021 is a good reference. Bridges signed a 4 year $90M contract in 2021 and he was coming off a Finals appearance and better offensive production than Jaden. He also had an elite defensive year. I love Jaden but he is currently not a better player than where Mikal was in 2021...even if you account for increased cap now when compared to 2021, I think anything above 4 years $105M+ is an overpay imo

I think you also need to consider that the Bridges contract ended up being a very big underpay.

And the majority of people felt that it was an underpay at the time.

[TimberKat]

It's also interesting that given how much value some of us place on Ant, JMcD, Naz, Milton, NAW, and Gaza. It feels like the only thing that is stopping us from winning 60 games this year is Gobert and Towns

[KGdaBom]

It's also interesting that given how much value some of us place on Ant, JMcD, Naz, Milton, NAW, and Gaza. It feels like the only thing that is stopping us from winning 60 games this year is Gobert and Towns

Yep. If we just didn't have those 2 we'd be looking good.

[Klomp]

Just as much of an "unknown" or "just a guy" as Jaden

Read on Twitter

[twolves31]

Just as much of an "unknown" or "just a guy" as Jaden

Read on Twitter

The league values offense more than it does defense. It's amusing the amount of reddit post claiming to have no idea who Vassell is.

[younggunsmn]

I'm not hung up on Offensive counting stats at all. I play fantasy basketball and I leave players with offensive counting stats to my opponents and win by focusing on other things. I'm generally Mr Positivity when it comes to the wolves. You are generally Mr. Negativity. Funny how you are arguing against me when I take the "REALISTIC" view of Jaden. I'm just stating that Jaden is not considered a star by most. He is considered just a guy. Yet everybody here is saying he will get $30 Million or more annually on his next contract. If other teams actually do covet him it's because they are looking at potential because he's young and not for the player he has been. I'm not saying he can't prove himself worthy of that. If we are the team paying that I hope he proves worth it.

You didn't answer my question. What % of the cap is your walkaway point?
15% when his extension starts in 2024 would be a deal starting at 22.4 million.
a deal starting at 25 million would be 16.7% of the cap.
For a deal with an AAV of 30 million, you are probably somewhere north of 18%.

I expect his deal to start at a minimum of 25 million per, be ascending, and approach 30 million AAV.
Devin Vassell, a slightly inferior player, just signed for 5/146 or 29.2 mil per.

You are actually taking a "Mr Positivity" view of what you think we should be able to sign him for.
I am sticking by a "Mr Realistic" view of what I think that will be.

It's true I'm a little higher on Jaden than my normal take on Wolves players.
There are 3 reasons really:
1. Maybe best wing defender in the NBA RIGHT NOW
2. Unique height/ length/athleticism/dexterity/shooting touch combo you do not find very often gives him a really high ceiling
3. Great looking shooting stroke and the stats to back it up.

For those reasons I'm more than fine paying Jaden 17-18% of the cap going forward, even if he ends up never cracking the top 3 in the offensive pecking order.
I'm certainly much more OK with that than paying Gobert 30% of the cap for a similar impact.
If Jaden does break through offensively, we have an absolute bargain.

If it weren't for his lack of offensive counting stats, he would be a slam dunk max contract.
Maybe best wing defender in NBA, 52/40 shooting splits last year.
If he hits the open market next summer and simply repeats last year's performance, he will likely have multiple offers next summer starting north of 30 mil per.

To me, the length is as important if not more than the dollar amount.
I would pay him 1-2% more of the cap just to get a straight 5 years with no player option if I were TC.

I would not use Mikal Bridges as a comp, that contract was a bargain the second he put pen to paper, and at that time he was 70% of the player he is now.

[younggunsmn]

Vassell had higher usage than McDaniels on a really bad team and 18.5ppg vs 12.1 and 3.6 assists vs 1.9.
Their minutes were very close.

Other than that, MCDaniels had much better shooting efficiency, 2% better on 3 point shots and a whopping 10% on 2 pointers.

Considering McDaniels is a better defender, I think he gets paid slightly more than Vassell.
I think 5/150 may be the minimum he signs for now.

But another contract like this coming in is very good news for those hoping for an extension, as it will hopefully give them another player comp to negotiate with and hopefully speed up the conclusion of negotiations.

[KGdaBom]

I'm not hung up on Offensive counting stats at all. I play fantasy basketball and I leave players with offensive counting stats to my opponents and win by focusing on other things. I'm generally Mr Positivity when it comes to the wolves. You are generally Mr. Negativity. Funny how you are arguing against me when I take the "REALISTIC" view of Jaden. I'm just stating that Jaden is not considered a star by most. He is considered just a guy. Yet everybody here is saying he will get $30 Million or more annually on his next contract. If other teams actually do covet him it's because they are looking at potential because he's young and not for the player he has been. I'm not saying he can't prove himself worthy of that. If we are the team paying that I hope he proves worth it.

You didn't answer my question. What % of the cap is your walkaway point?
15% when his extension starts in 2024 would be a deal starting at 22.4 million.
a deal starting at 25 million would be 16.7% of the cap.
For a deal with an AAV of 30 million, you are probably somewhere north of 18%.

I expect his deal to start at a minimum of 25 million per, be ascending, and approach 30 million AAV.
Devin Vassell, a slightly inferior player, just signed for 5/146 or 29.2 mil per.

You are actually taking a "Mr Positivity" view of what you think we should be able to sign him for.
I am sticking by a "Mr Realistic" view of what I think that will be.

It's true I'm a little higher on Jaden than my normal take on Wolves players.
There are 3 reasons really:
1. Maybe best wing defender in the NBA RIGHT NOW
2. Unique height/ length/athleticism/dexterity/shooting touch combo you do not find very often gives him a really high ceiling
3. Great looking shooting stroke and the stats to back it up.

For those reasons I'm more than fine paying Jaden 17-18% of the cap going forward, even if he ends up never cracking the top 3 in the offensive pecking order.
I'm certainly much more OK with that than paying Gobert 30% of the cap for a similar impact.
If Jaden does break through offensively, we have an absolute bargain.

If it weren't for his lack of offensive counting stats, he would be a slam dunk max contract.
Maybe best wing defender in NBA, 52/40 shooting splits last year.
If he hits the open market next summer and simply repeats last year's performance, he will likely have multiple offers next summer starting north of 30 mil per.

To me, the length is as important if not more than the dollar amount.
I would pay him 1-2% more of the cap just to get a straight 5 years with no player option if I were TC.

I would not use Mikal Bridges as a comp, that contract was a bargain the second he put pen to paper, and at that time he was 70% of the player he is now.

I consider Vassell to be a much superior player to Jaden. He signed for under $30 million a year. So $25 million per year 16.7% of the cap is the most we should pay Jaden IMO.

[younggunsmn]

So 25 ascending for 5 years would be 25,27,29,31,33, or 5/145. or 29 per AAV.
I would be OK with that.

[jpatrick]

So 25 ascending for 5 years would be 25,27,29,31,33, or 5/145. or 29 per AAV.
I would be OK with that.

I think this will be right about where it ends up. Vassell has put up more stats but that’s based on usage, as said above. McDaniels probably a slightly better defender but both are very good. I’m okay with that contract. Conley and one of Towns/Gobert will be off the books shortly in my opinion, my guess is Rudy or Towns is moved by next offseason at the latest, which makes the money okay.

[TimberKat]

So 25 ascending for 5 years would be 25,27,29,31,33, or 5/145. or 29 per AAV.
I would be OK with that.

I think this will be right about where it ends up. Vassell has put up more stats but that’s based on usage, as said above. McDaniels probably a slightly better defender but both are very good. I’m okay with that contract. Conley and one of Towns/Gobert will be off the books shortly in my opinion, my guess is Rudy or Towns is moved by next offseason at the latest, which makes the money okay.

The Vassell deal almost feels like the Otto Porter Jr. Wizards deal to me. I will still use Dillion Brooks as reference point for JMcD.

[younggunsmn]

So 25 ascending for 5 years would be 25,27,29,31,33, or 5/145. or 29 per AAV.
I would be OK with that.

I think this will be right about where it ends up. Vassell has put up more stats but that’s based on usage, as said above. McDaniels probably a slightly better defender but both are very good. I’m okay with that contract. Conley and one of Towns/Gobert will be off the books shortly in my opinion, my guess is Rudy or Towns is moved by next offseason at the latest, which makes the money okay.

The Vassell deal almost feels like the Otto Porter Jr. Wizards deal to me. I will still use Dillion Brooks as reference point for JMcD.

That Brooks deal was horrible but he's a truly awful offensive player and a grade A jerk. Memphis did not want him back for a discount.
He's also 27 and was unrestricted and Houston was begging players to take their money. Not a good comp for Jaden.

Porter is an interesting comp.

He was a great player for a few years and pretty much all you could ask for when it came to being an efficient 3+D wing and legit 3rd option.
Then injuries derailed his career and made the last couple years of that contract really ugly.
Definite worst case example to extending Jaden.
But injuries are always a risk when you hand out these big contracts.

[Note30]

I'm not hung up on Offensive counting stats at all. I play fantasy basketball and I leave players with offensive counting stats to my opponents and win by focusing on other things. I'm generally Mr Positivity when it comes to the wolves. You are generally Mr. Negativity. Funny how you are arguing against me when I take the "REALISTIC" view of Jaden. I'm just stating that Jaden is not considered a star by most. He is considered just a guy. Yet everybody here is saying he will get $30 Million or more annually on his next contract. If other teams actually do covet him it's because they are looking at potential because he's young and not for the player he has been. I'm not saying he can't prove himself worthy of that. If we are the team paying that I hope he proves worth it.

You didn't answer my question. What % of the cap is your walkaway point?
15% when his extension starts in 2024 would be a deal starting at 22.4 million.
a deal starting at 25 million would be 16.7% of the cap.
For a deal with an AAV of 30 million, you are probably somewhere north of 18%.

I expect his deal to start at a minimum of 25 million per, be ascending, and approach 30 million AAV.
Devin Vassell, a slightly inferior player, just signed for 5/146 or 29.2 mil per.

You are actually taking a "Mr Positivity" view of what you think we should be able to sign him for.
I am sticking by a "Mr Realistic" view of what I think that will be.

It's true I'm a little higher on Jaden than my normal take on Wolves players.
There are 3 reasons really:
1. Maybe best wing defender in the NBA RIGHT NOW
2. Unique height/ length/athleticism/dexterity/shooting touch combo you do not find very often gives him a really high ceiling
3. Great looking shooting stroke and the stats to back it up.

For those reasons I'm more than fine paying Jaden 17-18% of the cap going forward, even if he ends up never cracking the top 3 in the offensive pecking order.
I'm certainly much more OK with that than paying Gobert 30% of the cap for a similar impact.
If Jaden does break through offensively, we have an absolute bargain.

If it weren't for his lack of offensive counting stats, he would be a slam dunk max contract.
Maybe best wing defender in NBA, 52/40 shooting splits last year.
If he hits the open market next summer and simply repeats last year's performance, he will likely have multiple offers next summer starting north of 30 mil per.

To me, the length is as important if not more than the dollar amount.
I would pay him 1-2% more of the cap just to get a straight 5 years with no player option if I were TC.

I would not use Mikal Bridges as a comp, that contract was a bargain the second he put pen to paper, and at that time he was 70% of the player he is now.

I consider Vassell to be a much superior player to Jaden. He signed for under $30 million a year. So $25 million per year 16.7% of the cap is the most we should pay Jaden IMO.

Dude. You really don't know what you're talking about if you think Vassell is a much superior player. He's a good 3pt shooter and that's his strongest calling card. His midrange is about average and his decision making on ball is pretty poor. He constantly misses rotations on defense. He's also taking 16 shots to average 18.5/19 pts a game. Not exactly efficient.

He's the only player on the SAS roster to get the greenlight to shoot midrange shots off split screens and has delay actions setup for him. Despite that massive advantage, he still shoots at about average from midrange, above average from the left elbow and far below average from the right.

He also got the go go greenlight because of pure lack of offensive options, especially later in the year when they lost Poetl who started their offense almost every play. Granted he was also returning from around that time and he was injured for most of the year.

I'm not gonna say he sucks, he's obviously a good player with a decent ceiling, he's a decent shooter and create his own shot off action. But that's about as far as his skillset goes. He's not a good slasher, nor does he have amazing playmaking ability. He's pretty average defensively as well. He's basically a taller and more athletic version of Dlo, with even less playmaking ability. He has a decent ceiling.

Jaden on the other hand has never had that greenlight. He's not the shooter Vassell is but is still respectable. He's a much better slasher and finisher, and has quite a respectable shot between 3ft and free throw line. He's a decent corner 3pt shooter and despite lack of opportunities has done a pretty solid job passing the ball. If he was on a worse team he'd probably be averaging 16-18 pts as well. He can't handle the ball as well as Vassell, sure but his handle for his height is still pretty respectable, he can't change pace like a guard but he still has atleast two levels of ball control.

Treating Jaden like his offensive game isn't usable as a primary option is a luxury we are given. I suggest you don't take it as an indication of his abilities.

Defensively I'm not even going to talk about Jaden because it should be a foregone conclusion. He's the best defender on this team.

[TimberKat]

That Brooks deal was horrible but he's a truly awful offensive player and a grade A jerk. Memphis did not want him back for a discount.
He's also 27 and was unrestricted and Houston was begging players to take their money. Not a good comp for Jaden.

Don't tell that to team USA and team Canada