Moore: Magic Need to Trade for Malcolm Brogdon

[pepe1991]

Nuggets over years:
removed Nurkic who was their investment early on ( but kept 27 years old backup instad)
removed former 7th overall pick after 2 and half seasons
added 32 years old free agent Millsap
for one year played 34 years old Devin Harris over own 19th pick
traded away own 13# pick (Donovan MItchell selected)
traded away former 15th pick after 2 and half years


In contract of Magic, who fans prefer to keep own lottery and non lottery picks for 12 yeras, just to be sure they wont' turn into Lebron.

so what i got from that is...all those moves were bad by denver not 1 help them and they lost out on mitchell?
oh and they got real lucky on a 2nd rd pick and bailed them out..lets be real

so maybe magic should trade there lottery picks for 2nd rd picks and hope for luck?

so you good with the magic trading the 11th pick sabonis and victor the 2 pick away when they did also?

OR

you need to get over yourself at some point and start building winning team and stop being busts rehab center.

[Residual-Heat]

I want Robert Williams too
Fultz+Harris+ 2024 top 8 protected 1st for Williams+Brogdon

or

Cole+Harris+Goga+Houstan+Okeke+2024 top 8 protected 1st for Williams+Brogdon

Williams, Brogdon, suggs, WCJ, Isaac is a lot of injury prone players though LOL

[eyriq]

Another meh here. I have him in the same tier as Fultz, with Cole nipping at his heels. Bringing in another solid PG doesn't move the needle for me. Develop Black, don't invest in a PG by committee solution.

[VFX]

If you are pursuing MB, same with Jrue, you are going to be getting rid of 1 or 2 point guards in the process. Fultz and/or Cole would be the ones to be moved so AB isn’t buried and can get some experience in front of him.

I don’t view MB on the same level as Jrue due to injuries, but I see the value in consolidating assets at this point.

You can’t develop an entire roster at the same time while also shooting for the playoffs. They need to build the roster now that they have Paolo and Franz. Cole and Fultz were here beforehand. To think their skill sets magically align with Orlando’s biggest investments is foolish after the fact.

[eyriq]

If you are pursuing MB, same with Jrue, you are going to be getting rid of 1 or 2 point guards in the process. Fultz and/or Cole would be the ones to be moved so AB isn’t buried and can get some experience in front of him.

I don’t view MB on the same level as Jrue due to injuries, but I see the value in consolidating assets at this point.

You can’t develop an entire roster at the same time while also shooting for the playoffs. They need to build the roster now that they have Paolo and Franz. Cole and Fultz were here beforehand. To think their skill sets magically align with Orlando’s biggest investments is foolish after the fact.

Hmmm, yeah good point. MB would be a great fit.

[tiderulz]

i would rather go after Simons.

[bigdogdylan5]

I understood Lillard.

Jrue I thought was dumb but at least could understand.

Now we want Brogdan?!

Some of you are jonesing so much for a trade it’s kind of nuts we need to find out what we have in all of our guards so we figure out who to keep. Or maybe decide none are starting championship quality. But we need to find out.

[Skybox]

I understood Lillard.

Jrue I thought was dumb but at least could understand.

Now we want Brogdan?!

Some of you are jonesing so much for a trade it’s kind of nuts we need to find out what we have in all of our guards so we figure out who to keep. Or maybe decide none are starting championship quality. But we need to find out.

Each one of those is a completely different level of investment...IF they make Williams available (word is they won't), he and Brogdon together equal Jrue...and Dame equals Jrue + a bunch of stuff, so most objectors based on price/sacrifice to obtain a solid 2-way upgrade and leader who can spread the floor for our forwards (even if just for a season or two)...should be lightening their objections - not doubling down.

I'd love to expand to try to get Simons too...but I doubt they're ready to move him without seeing the dynamic with Scoot AND it would take more young talent that we may not be willing to move. The price for Brogdon is likelier to just be pick(s) and expiring salary.

[VFX]

I understood Lillard.

Jrue I thought was dumb but at least could understand.

Now we want Brogdan?!

Some of you are jonesing so much for a trade it’s kind of nuts we need to find out what we have in all of our guards so we figure out who to keep. Or maybe decide none are starting championship quality. But we need to find out.

Which guards? Orlando has 3 currently that have value at point guard.

Markelle Fultz - going into his 5th season with Orlando (expiring, big extension in 1 season)
Cole Anthony - going into his 4th season with Orlando (expiring, rookie deal)
Anthony Black - rookie, zero games played (rookie deal)

You cannot develop all three of these guys at the same time while getting an accurate assessment and become a playoff team at the same time.

How long do you keep all three of these guys? When do you decide who is best based on something other than playing time, contract size, or number of years in the league?

It’s a rhetorical question because you can’t evaluate all of them on equal standing at different points in their career. You do it based on skill sets that work best with Paolo/Franz and on the other contracts on the books coupled with timeframes.

The idea of wanting a trade has less to do with believing Jrue or MB is exponentially “better” and has more to do with the fact that there is no veteran presence amongst the point guards. A consolidation trade is “less is more”. Do people want 3 young point guards fighting for limited minutes, or a clear direction with less money tied up in indecision?

[bigdogdylan5]

I understood Lillard.

Jrue I thought was dumb but at least could understand.

Now we want Brogdan?!

Some of you are jonesing so much for a trade it’s kind of nuts we need to find out what we have in all of our guards so we figure out who to keep. Or maybe decide none are starting championship quality. But we need to find out.

Each one of those is a completely different level of investment...IF they make Williams available (word is they won't), he and Brogdon together equal Jrue...and Dame equals Jrue + a bunch of stuff, so most objectors based on price/sacrifice to obtain a solid 2-way upgrade and leader who can spread the floor for our forwards (even if just for a season or two)...should be lightening their objections - not doubling down.

I'd love to expand to try to get Simons too...but I doubt they're ready to move him without seeing the dynamic with Scoot AND it would take more young talent that we may not be willing to move. The price for Brogdon is likelier to just be pick(s) and expiring salary.

I am sorry but the cost to acquire is not the only cost. With our roster situation you would be giving up precious minutes to a veteran with very little long term upside and at best maybe he is a 2-3 win player. Look at the rotation thread and it’s extremely hard to come up with a rotation. I would much rather try to get Jett Howard minutes then trade anything for aging guard with a crazy injury history.

[Audi]

It’s a rhetorical question because you can’t evaluate all of them on equal standing at different points in their career. You do it based on skill sets that work best with Paolo/Franz and on the other contracts on the books coupled with timeframes.

True. But if we can’t evaluate the guards properly due to unequal standing at different points of their career, how are we going to properly evaluate our second and third year studs to know what skills are needed to best work with them before they’ve actually come into their own games?

Building around your star players makes perfect sense when they are established and refining their games - but this is different than having your stars be very young and still defining their games.

It’s a great problem to have though.

[VFX]

It’s a rhetorical question because you can’t evaluate all of them on equal standing at different points in their career. You do it based on skill sets that work best with Paolo/Franz and on the other contracts on the books coupled with timeframes.

True. But if we can’t evaluate the guards properly due to unequal standing at different points of their career, how are we going to properly evaluate our second and third year studs to know what skills are needed to best work with them before they’ve actually come into their own games?

Building around your star players makes perfect sense when they are established and refining their games - but this is different than having your stars be very young and still defining their games.

It’s a great problem to have though.

It's a good problem to have that becomes a bad problem to have if you don't address it.

Orlando isn't going to be in the lotto for the foreseeable future. Franz and Paolo have to be the cornerstones. If not, then the season's outcome will dictate that. We know what they can do based on what we've already seen. It's not like they were playing limited minutes against bench units. They aren't going to regress. That should be the obvious benchmark for how they are evaluating their outcome. If they acquire better outside shooting, defense, etc. , then it's a bonus.

I'm just tired of Magic fans believing that timeframes and cap space doesn't exist in roster construction. You can't "wait and see" with every single prospect, while hand out money expecting some unforeseeable future trade is going to miraculously make sense of the roster when opportunity arises.

I'm usually against consolidating young talent for "win-now" moves. However, when your young talent is being hindered fighting for minutes without legitimate veteran leadership, then it becomes necessary. This isn't a situation like Golden State where you can bring them off the bench behind championship level talent and savy vets. Markelle Fultz and Gary Harris aren't in either of those categories for that to be what I'm talking about.

[jibba jones]

There is a middle ground here.

This is not the year to tank (from a player perspective) and it’s time for this team to stretch, make a fight for the playoffs and grow. It’s time for winning basketball.

I like Brogdens fit, I think his skill set would fit perfectly and I think he would help the team grow but I don’t think they should meet what will probably be the cost.

The Denver pick, or maybe Cole (and some structure changes to make fit)? Yes, pull the trigger.
The pick and Cole or anything more and I think it sacrifices where the team could be long term for interesting and valuable but ultimately short term gains.

[SHAQ32]

Every bad idea doesn't need a thread

[Knightro]

I think a move like this will have to involve Black and Suggs or Cole.

But I’m not sure why the Blazers would do it. Brogdon is starter material, and Suggs/Cole likely will play in their second lineup. They also have to clear minutes without competition for Scoot, Sharpe and Simons.

But they are interested, I’d considering a deal revolving around Fultz for Brogdon.

Having Fultz and Brogdon may just be too redundant. I think upgrading Fultz to Brogdon is better.

The players going back to Portland are almost irrelevant IMO.

They would primarily want future draft capital.

[VFX]

Every bad idea doesn't need a thread

A bad idea is the current guard rotation.

[fendilim]

I think a move like this will have to involve Black and Suggs or Cole.

But I’m not sure why the Blazers would do it. Brogdon is starter material, and Suggs/Cole likely will play in their second lineup. They also have to clear minutes without competition for Scoot, Sharpe and Simons.

But they are interested, I’d considering a deal revolving around Fultz for Brogdon.

Having Fultz and Brogdon may just be too redundant. I think upgrading Fultz to Brogdon is better.

The players going back to Portland are almost irrelevant IMO.

They would primarily want future draft capital.

It wont really make sense for us to make a move then.

We need to open up minutes, not creating more logjam.

We’ll end up trading good picks and players for Brogdon, when we just acquired Black and Howard in the draft.

[Knightro]

It wont really make sense for us to make a move then.

We need to open up minutes, not creating more logjam.

We’ll end up trading good picks and players for Brogdon, when we just acquired Black and Howard in the draft.

I mean Brodgon makes $22.5M, so the Magic would have to send *at least* two players out to match salary in addition to probably one draft pick.

Harris would almost assuredly be in the deal at the very least + 1-2 other players.

[BadMofoPimp]

After Malcom goes elsewhere, will there be a thread entitled,"Magic Need to Trade for Goran Dragic?"

[Knightro]

I understood Lillard.

Jrue I thought was dumb but at least could understand.

Now we want Brogdan?!

Some of you are jonesing so much for a trade it’s kind of nuts we need to find out what we have in all of our guards so we figure out who to keep. Or maybe decide none are starting championship quality. But we need to find out.

Which guards? Orlando has 3 currently that have value at point guard.

Markelle Fultz - going into his 5th season with Orlando (expiring, big extension in 1 season)
Cole Anthony - going into his 4th season with Orlando (expiring, rookie deal)
Anthony Black - rookie, zero games played (rookie deal)

You cannot develop all three of these guys at the same time while getting an accurate assessment and become a playoff team at the same time.

How long do you keep all three of these guys? When do you decide who is best based on something other than playing time, contract size, or number of years in the league?

It’s a rhetorical question because you can’t evaluate all of them on equal standing at different points in their career. You do it based on skill sets that work best with Paolo/Franz and on the other contracts on the books coupled with timeframes.

The idea of wanting a trade has less to do with believing Jrue or MB is exponentially “better” and has more to do with the fact that there is no veteran presence amongst the point guards. A consolidation trade is “less is more”. Do people want 3 young point guards fighting for limited minutes, or a clear direction with less money tied up in indecision?

This isn't even factoring in 22-year-old Jalen Suggs who's best position *could* have been point guard, but has been forced to move to a pure shooting guard role because of roster construction.