Who has been better 2020 - Current Jrue Holiday or Khris Middelton

mdonnelly1989 · Post #1 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 5:28 am

zero rings · Post #2 » by **zero rings** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 5:49 am

Jrue pretty easily. His defense is so good that it's hard for him to not have a positive impact on the game. He's in the mold of a Manu or Draymond type star, where doing all the little things adds up to star level impact.

Middleton is a good player but if he isn't making shots he's not doing much for you.

Baddy Chuck · Post #3 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 6:04 am

Simply due to availability/consistency you probably have to give it to Jrue because of the extended time Khris missed. Cannot be overstated how hard Khris carried this team at times during the championship run though. Jrue still worked his ass off and played his game defensively but he also really kinda folded when any bit of offensive pressure was put on his shoulders for us.

One Last Shot · Post #4 » by **One Last Shot** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 6:25 am

The steal and the lob that clinched the Milwaukee Bucks NBA title and the 2021 play of the year. Without this clutch defense and alley-oop by Jrue to Giannis, Suns might be up 3-2 and possibly won the NBA title.

Watch on YouTube

Also, don't forget the Game 7 between Bucks and Nets. Jrue Holiday scored 9 points with 2 assists in the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter while Giannis and Middleton combined for 9 points. Sadly, those Bucks squad was never healthy again in the next 2 years and decided to trade Jrue for Lillard.

naabzor · Post #5 » by **naabzor** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 6:57 am

zero rings wrote:Jrue pretty easily. His defense is so good that it's hard for him to not have a positive impact on the game. He's in the mold of a Manu or Draymond type star, where doing all the little things adds up to star level impact.

Middleton is a good player but if he isn't making shots he's not doing much for you.

Manu who. Manu Ginobili? Not even close.

Up-And-Coming · Post #6 » by **Up-And-Coming** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 11:03 am

I always viewed Middleton as the Bucks 2nd best player both in the regular season and playoffs. He's had a plethora of injuries but I will still give him the edge.

Big J · Post #7 » by **Big J** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 11:10 am

zero rings wrote:Jrue pretty easily. His defense is so good that it's hard for him to not have a positive impact on the game. He's in the mold of a Manu or Draymond type star, where doing all the little things adds up to star level impact.

Middleton is a good player but if he isn't making shots he's not doing much for you.

Why did Jrue get destroyed on D by Jimmy then?

KGtabake · Post #8 » by **KGtabake** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 11:18 am

Ιf healthy, it's Middleton.
Pretty good two way forward, pretty reliable in defense and a weapon offensively that can score in any way possible. He can also playmake a bit.
But he's not athletic enough.
And Middleton hasn't been healthy since '21.
Safe to say that he's declining.

So, it's Jrue. The best defensive guard in the league, who can make buckets if he's viewed as a 3rd option.
If he's asked to do more offensively he won't be that good because he's not talented enough as a scorer(compared to Middleton), plus he's not a natural point guard (which explains the problems Milwaukee had in pick n roll situations since Jrue doesn't have elite awareness and passing vision).

If Milwaukee could trade Middleton instead of Jrue, i believe they would have done it.
His injuries though, lowered his value.

AussieBuck · Post #9 » by **AussieBuck** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 11:23 am

Regular season Jrue pretty easy. Khris hasn't been a defender for years and he doesn't really try in any case in the regular season. Playoffs, Khris is still kinda washed on D but he's trying now and Jrue basically is now Eric Bledsoe but with more self belief.

Post #10 » by **zimpy27** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 11:35 am

Jrue for sure

Statlanta · Post #11 » by **Statlanta** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 12:20 pm

Holiday his advanced stats even supersede Giannis in some areas meaning he is dominant in his 3rd option role.

greekbuck34 · Post #12 » by **greekbuck34** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 1:35 pm

Fit/healthy Middleton is an all star.
Unfit/unhealthy Middleton is a borderline allstar to top 30 guy due to inconsistency and far worse defense.

Jrue with his shot online is a clear all star and a two way monster. Clutch on both sides for the court too.
Jrue with terrible efficiency is still a borderline allstar to top 30 guy due to his insane 1v1 defense.
When his shot is off and his defense is being neutralized due to a bad system(bud's drop defense) or players like Butler turning to prime MJ for 2-3 games he is absolutely terrible because he is not a great playmaker, his handles are unstable and defenses ignore him and bait him to shoot screwing the overall spacing of the offense.

zero rings · Post #13 » by **zero rings** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 2:36 pm

Big J wrote:
zero rings wrote:Jrue pretty easily. His defense is so good that it's hard for him to not have a positive impact on the game. He's in the mold of a Manu or Draymond type star, where doing all the little things adds up to star level impact.

Middleton is a good player but if he isn't making shots he's not doing much for you.

Why did Jrue get destroyed on D by Jimmy then?

Because sometimes great offense beats great defense? Because crazy things can happen in small samples? Here are their 3 year +/- numbers.

Jrue Holiday: +11.5

Khris Middleton: +2.5

Even with his sometimes horrific shooting Jrue still has a much bigger impact on the scoreboard.

dhsilv2 · Post #14 » by **dhsilv2** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 2:49 pm

Big J wrote:
zero rings wrote:Jrue pretty easily. His defense is so good that it's hard for him to not have a positive impact on the game. He's in the mold of a Manu or Draymond type star, where doing all the little things adds up to star level impact.

Middleton is a good player but if he isn't making shots he's not doing much for you.

Why did Jrue get destroyed on D by Jimmy then?

1. It was a 5 game series.
2. Players get hot
3. It's not ideal to have a 4 inches shorter and 25 pound lighter guy against an elite mid range tough shot maker. That's the absolute worse profile to put on someone like that.

facothomas22 · Post #15 » by **facothomas22** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 3:34 pm

Jrue Holiday. A much better defender, still a above average player on offense. Not to mention Khris Middenton has struggled with health in recent seasons.

Wooderson · Post #16 » by **Wooderson** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 7:30 pm

One Last Shot wrote:The steal and the lob that clinched the Milwaukee Bucks NBA title and the 2021 play of the year. Without this clutch defense and alley-oop by Jrue to Giannis, Suns might be up 3-2 and possibly won the NBA title.

Watch on YouTube

Also, don't forget the Game 7 between Bucks and Nets. Jrue Holiday scored 9 points with 2 assists in the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter while Giannis and Middleton combined for 9 points. Sadly, those Bucks squad was never healthy again in the next 2 years and decided to trade Jrue for Lillard.

Jrue scored 13 points on 5/23 shooting that game 7, horrifically bad. How much credit should he really get when the game wouldn't have even been close if we wasn't a disaster offensively for most of it? That's true of many games that playoff run.

GoldenAntlers · Post #17 » by **GoldenAntlers** » Tue Oct 3, 2023 9:32 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:Simply due to availability/consistency you probably have to give it to Jrue because of the extended time Khris missed. Cannot be overstated how hard Khris carried this team at times during the championship run though. Jrue still worked his ass off and played his game defensively but he also really kinda folded when any bit of offensive pressure was put on his shoulders for us.

This.