Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread

[payitforward]

In context it sounds like Wes was saying all the young guys will have an opportunity to fight for minutes. I expect in training camp they want to get a good look at what to do with Baldwin, Butler, Coulibaly, Davis, Rollins, even Cooks, Omoruyi and the exhibit 10 invitees.

Interesting that he's talking about Gallo even at Center. I know he likes a high post Big. If he sees Danilo in that role we now go 4 deep there. 5 if he's considering Kuzma as well.

My main concern with adding Danilo and Kuz to the center rotation is defensively, they're going to get beat the hell up, even in small-ball lineups. And our starting center has yet to prove he can consistently box out and stay out of foul trouble.

I hear what you guys are saying about Bilal re: G League and bringing him along slowly. From my perspective, there's a fine line between between bringing him along slowly and wasting his time. There's honestly zero precedent of a top 10 pick going to G League for any amount of time and living up to that billing. It's just not what competent orgs do. Wes suggesting that Bilal would go there feels like he's closer to Bruno Caboclo than circa-2013 Giannis, and that's concerning.

Yeah, I hear you.

I'd be much happier without most of these vets around and a clear commitment to developing the youngsters. If it was up to me, I'd have Kuzma, Jones and Poole as the primary vet mentors, plus maybe one of Muscala/Gibson. Everyone else would be a young prospect. I'd make sure Coulibaly got 1000 minutes.

I agree 100%. We've got 7 guys who have no role in our future -- Shamet, Wright, Gallinari, Muscala, Gibson, Gill & Cooks. In fairness, none of those guys has a guarantee beyond this year, but all the same: whatever "re" word you want to use, that's too many.

For that matter, 3 of the remaining 10 under contract -- Davis, Baldwin, & Rollins -- are eyes-closed, hope-based long shots.

IMO, there are really only 3 guys on this roster we can count on over the next 3-5 years -- Jones, Gafford (within his limitations), & Kispert. Coulibaly was a terrific pick, of course, but you can't put an 18-year-old on the list of guys you "can count on."

I.e. whatever "re" word you want to use, there's a whole lot of it still to come.

[gambitx777]

Bilal looks thicker than I thought he would. Must be hitting the protein shakes, steals and weights baybay.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Frichuela]

Bilal looks thicker than I thought he would. Must be hitting the protein shakes, steals and weights baybay.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

Here he is training with Johnny Davis at 3pt shooting from the corner

The team has listed him at 6'7" height.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[wewillnevertank]

Here he is training with Johnny Davis at 3pt shooting from the corner

The team has listed him at 6'7" height.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Really disappointed in the mechanics of Johnny's shot here, and just in general. Whatever they've done with him since day 1 has him doing a weird bend/hitch with his right leg. I don't recall that same weirdness with his shot before he got injured at Wisconsin.

Bilal's form looks promising, though. Once he gets enough reps to speed up the release, look out!

[Pokuokic]

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUQdHJpc3RhbiB2dWtjZXZpYw%3D%3D

First ABA game fo the season (vs bad team but still nice move).

[nate33]

It's a little early to start a 2024 offseason thread, but with this Deni signing, our future payroll situation is becoming pretty clear. As it stands right now, we have $92M committed to 6 players: Poole, Kispert, Deni, Bilal, Kuzma, Gafford.

Let's assume they keep Rollins, Butler and Omoryuri at $2M a pop. (For this thought experiment, I'm assuming they let PBJ and Johnny Davis walk.) That gets us up to $100M for 9 players and a roster that looks like this:

PG Butler/Rollins
SG Poole/Kispert
SF Bilal/Omoryuri
PF Kuzma/Deni
C Gafford

The salary cap is $142M, so that's $42M in cap room, minus $8M for the #3 pick in the draft and another $3M for 2 roster holds leaving us with $31M. Our big needs are starting center and starting PG.

Could we throw that bucket of money at a RFA from the 2020 draft class? A guy like Okongwu would fit nicely and Atlanta would be hard-pressed to match a generous offer. Then draft a PG.

Or maybe we can throw the money at Tyrese Maxey and draft a center, though I'm not excited about a Maxey/Poole backcourt.

Or maybe we keep our powder dry for a year, resign Jones to a 1-year deal at a high price, and then see who we can poach from the much better 2021 draft class. Suggs or Giddey would be an excellent fit at PG.

[payitforward]

I think we can declare the off season over. The regular season starts tomorrow. We're down to 15 regular roster players & up to 3 two-way players.

So... I guess it's time to give the Wizards' 2023 off season a grade.
Only a preliminary grade, of course, since in many (maybe even most) cases we don't know yet how well the moves they made will work out.

Still... with that caveat declared, I'm going to try. Admittedly, btw, most of the below will have been said already -- by me, someone else, or most-maybe-all of us. I'm not trying to break new ground here, just to make explicit the conversation we've been having all Summer.

Obviously, the first off season moves, & the most important ones, were 1) firing Tommy Sheppard, & 2) bringing on Michael Winger & Will Dawkins. To me, everything else aside, these two moves on their own warrant giving this off season an A. The team has set off in an all-new direction.

Significant above all, in my mind at least, was Michael Winger's declaration that "we will contend for an NBA championship." He didn't say when, but he sit it as our goal, & he stated explicitly that we would reach that goal: that we will contend for a title.

I can't recall anyone connected with this organization saying anything like that -- not under Abe's ownership & not since Ted became owner.

Next came the draft, which Dawkins managed with boldness. Moving up for Bilal certainly looks to have been an A+ decision!

Equally obvious, the next significant off season move was trading Brad. That decision was essential -- independent of what we got back for him (much of which is in the future). It too is part of what earns this off season an A grade.

Now, with Brad gone, I'd say Porzingis' decision to leave was entirely to be expected. Thus, "losing" KP doesn't lower that A grade. In fact, getting Tyus Jones in the process reinforces a high assessment. Not to mention that the rights to Muscala & Gallinari also came in that deal.

Indeed, Dawkins also acquired the #35 pick in the '23 draft in that transaction -- which he proceeded to trade to the Bulls for their '26 & '27 R2 picks.

Given that Porzingis' decision was almost inevitable & not something over which Dawkins could extend any influence, I think it's fair to say that managing to come away with these assets earns high praise for our new GM.

OTOH, the acquisition of Jones led almost inevitably to trading Monte Morris for very very little (a R2 pick in '27) -- far less than he is worth as a player. To some degree at least, that cost detracts from the significance of the overall gain (which I don't question).

Following up the Beal trade by moving CP3 & a #57 pick for 3 young players was altogether sensible. We don't know how they'll turn out, any of them, but it was the right thing to do.

Now, if Trayce Jackson-Davis (whom GS took w/ the #57 they got from us in the trade) becomes a stud, we may revisit this part of the transaction -- especially if Patrick Baldwin doesn't pan out. In principle, however, it's hard to criticize trading the #57 pick this year for the guy taken #28 last year.

In any case, that's what I've got, & I'm sure no one will be surprised that, you bet, I give the Washington Wizards a solid A for their 2023 off season. The new guys are off to a terrific start!

[Hibachi_0]

I think we can declare the off season over. The regular season starts tomorrow. We're down to 15 regular roster players & up to 3 two-way players.

So... I guess it's time to give the Wizards' 2023 off season a grade.
Only a preliminary grade, of course, since in many (maybe even most) cases we don't know yet how well the moves they made will work out.

Still... with that caveat declared, I'm going to try. Admittedly, btw, most of the below will have been said already -- by me, someone else, or most-maybe-all of us. I'm not trying to break new ground here, just to make explicit the conversation we've been having all Summer.

Obviously, the first off season moves, & the most important ones, were 1) firing Tommy Sheppard, & 2) bringing on Michael Winger & Will Dawkins. To me, everything else aside, these two moves on their own warrant giving this off season an A. The team has set off in an all-new direction.

Significant above all, in my mind at least, was Michael Winger's declaration that "we will contend for an NBA championship." He didn't say when, but he sit it as our goal, & he stated explicitly that we would reach that goal: that we will contend for a title.

I can't recall anyone connected with this organization saying anything like that -- not under Abe's ownership & not since Ted became owner.

Next came the draft, which Dawkins managed with boldness. Moving up for Bilal certainly looks to have been an A+ decision!

Equally obvious, the next significant off season move was trading Brad. That decision was essential -- independent of what we got back for him (much of which is in the future). It too is part of what earns this off season an A grade.

Now, with Brad gone, I'd say Porzingis' decision to leave was entirely to be expected. Thus, "losing" KP doesn't lower that A grade. In fact, getting Tyus Jones in the process reinforces a high assessment. Not to mention that the rights to Muscala & Gallinari also came in that deal.

Indeed, Dawkins also acquired the #35 pick in the '23 draft in that transaction -- which he proceeded to trade to the Bulls for their '26 & '27 R2 picks.

Given that Porzingis' decision was almost inevitable & not something over which Dawkins could extend any influence, I think it's fair to say that managing to come away with these assets earns high praise for our new GM.

OTOH, the acquisition of Jones led almost inevitably to trading Monte Morris for very very little (a R2 pick in '27) -- far less than he is worth as a player. To some degree at least, that cost detracts from the significance of the overall gain (which I don't question).

Following up the Beal trade by moving CP3 & a #57 pick for 3 young players was altogether sensible. We don't know how they'll turn out, any of them, but it was the right thing to do.

Now, if Trayce Jackson-Davis (whom GS took w/ the #57 they got from us in the trade) becomes a stud, we may revisit this part of the transaction -- especially if Patrick Baldwin doesn't pan out. In principle, however, it's hard to criticize trading the #57 pick this year for the guy taken #28 last year.

In any case, that's what I've got, & I'm sure no one will be surprised that, you bet, I give the Washington Wizards a solid A for their 2023 off season. The new guys are off to a terrific start!

I would also add the Kuzma and Deni extensions being decreasing and not really overpaid. Shows at least there is a real goal of trying to have assets to contend in the future, either by keeping them on nice deals or by being attractive movable contracts. This would also get the A grade for me.

[doclinkin]

Equally obvious, the next significant off season move was trading Brad. That decision was essential -- independent of what we got back for him

...

Following up the Beal trade by moving CP3 & a #57 pick for 3 young players was altogether sensible. We don't know how they'll turn out, any of them, but it was the right thing to do.

I think it is fair to consider what we got in the Beal deal.

Out:
Beal.
Aging 2nd or 3rd tier 'star' with a max contract and no-trade clause. A recent injury history that has carried over to the start of this season.

In:
Jordan Poole.
An inefficient young scorer, with upside and a championship resume.
A player whose age 22 season (pre-punch) was closely comparable to Beal's age 22 season.
https://stathead.com/tiny/73vez

Landry Shamet, veteran young role playing ranged shooter, trade bait, back-up 2 guard.
Ryan Rollins, PG/combo guard prospect.
Patrick Baldwin Jr., 6'10" shooter (who so far can't shoot).

Four first round pick swaps with PHX (2024, 2026, 2028 and 2030)
Six second round picks from PHX (2024, 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028 and 2030)
The Warriors 2027 second-round pick.
The Golden State 2030 first-round pick (top 20 protected)

So we are looking at:
Beal
--for--
One starter, one bench player, two prospects.
One late first round pick (if the W's stay in the top 10).
Seven 2nd round picks.
Chances to increase our lotto odds in 5 out of the next 7 drafts.

That may not be the foundation of a franchise, but it looks like a whole stack of rebar and sacks of concrete to make one. Honestly it looks like a fake trade that fans might come up with in the trade thread or general board. Improbable. Laughed off the thread.

[payitforward]

No argument from me on these points, doc.

[doclinkin]

No argument from me on these points, doc.

Right? I mean its a PIF trade if I ever heard of one. One guy swapped out, bringing back as many as 17 other players. If we have even a reasonably good talent evaluation team, there's bound to be a few solid players in the bunch. Better return on the stats than an aging Beal, irrespective of his salary and no-trade-clause. That salary and NTC though increase the value of each of those picks considering how hard it will be to build a team around Beal if his production hits a slump. Especially given that the team will have swapped away opportunities to build with low-cost replacements like 2nd round picks.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

No argument from me on these points, doc.

Call me cynical, but the haul from those trades looks a lot better on paper than they'll turn out.

We might end up with one pick swap. The GS pick won't convey, or will be a late first.

Rollins might stick in the org as a back up PG or G league star. Baldwin is awful.

I like that we have a bunch of seconds. Poole is thus far looking terrible. Jones is average.

[GoneShammGone]

I'm starting to feel good about those pick swaps. Booker is 28. Beal is struggling to stay on the court. KD is 36. The only youngish player on their roster who is any good is our old friend JGoody. I could see Phoenix crashing and going full tank mode as early as next season. Probably not, but really, what kind of outlook do they have beyond that?

[doclinkin]

No argument from me on these points, doc.

Call me cynical, but the haul from those trades looks a lot better on paper than they'll turn out.

We might end up with one pick swap. The GS pick won't convey, or will be a late first.

Rollins might stick in the org as a back up PG or G league star. Baldwin is awful.

I like that we have a bunch of seconds. Poole is thus far looking terrible. Jones is average.

Personally I am more excited about 4 pick swaps with a team that is relying on aging and injury-prone stars than I'm excited about those 7 second rounders.

We're not talking about if the Suns will have a better record than us. We are just banking on if they miss the playoffs. Think of a pick swap as additional ping pong balls. Any year the Suns miss the postseason, basically we get their lotto combinations as well as ours. We are not saying we switch only if their record is worse than ours. We switch if their _luck_ is better than ours. Since you switch only after they actually have the pick.

Lets say this year we were the 5th worst team with a 42% chance at a top 4 pick. And pretend the Suns were the 9th worst team, with a 20% chance at that pick. We get all of those combos, for a better than 60% chance at top 4 lottery talent. Better than any of the tanking teams. Better still we beat the tankers on chances for that number one overall. Last year the Spurs tanked their entire season, just to earn a 14% of landing Wemby. Smart, it worked for them. But if we had the 5th and 9th combos we would have had a 15% chance to land him. Without intentionally tanking, just by accidentally sucking.

Now picture if we had that 60% for say 3 of those 4 years. Toss out the Suns record this year, but looking ahead to 2026, 2028, 2030. Who bets they will make the playoffs each of those years? When Durant is 37, 38, and 40 on a rebuilt leg. The odds stack up. Imagine if we had a 60% chance of a top 4 pick for the last few years. Seems to me we could build a solid team if we had a good percentage chance of I dunno Evan Mobley, Keegan Murray, Scoot Henderson.

I'm not banking on Jordan Poole and the GState castaways being more productive than Bradley Beal. Though so far they are even if they suck, since he's putting up zeroes across the board. But playing the odds, we have a chance to build a far better team with a bunch of swaps and 2nd rounders than if we tried to trade Beal straight up for some single 2nd rate star.

[leswizards]

Is there no amazingly sucky Kyle Kuzma thread? I was going to post in there but I couldn’t find it, so I will post my thoughts here.

I loved all but three moves by the new management. First, resigning taj; second, not firing Wes; third, resigning Kuzma.

This guy will never be offensively efficient. He doesn’t think he is inefficient, so he sees no reason to correct his mistakes. I am quite confident that opposing coaches put in their game plan to allow Kuzma to shoot the three. That he will take it, and miss it more often than not. He was 1 for 10 last night and is 2 for 14 on the season. This clown is clueless and wuj allows it, even encourages it.

[payitforward]

No argument from me on these points, doc.

Call me cynical, but the haul from those trades looks a lot better on paper than they'll turn out.

How does Bradley Beal at $46m look to you?

We might end up with one pick swap. The GS pick won't convey, or will be a late first.

Rollins might stick in the org as a back up PG or G league star. Baldwin is awful.

I like that we have a bunch of seconds. Poole is thus far looking terrible. Jones is average.

Fair enough that we don't know the future of either the players or the picks or the swaps.

But, if something "might" happen, then something better "might" also happen.
* The GS pick "might" convey.
* We might get a whole bunch of the pick swaps.
* A late first might get us a tremendous player -- how long a list those would you like?
* Rollins might turn out to be quite a good NBA player.
* Baldwin might get genuinely healthy & also become a good player: no one doubts his talent.
* Jones is far far better than "average." I've got him in the top 15-18 PGs in the league.

OTOH, it's not a "might" it's an absolute certainty that Brad is on his way down as a player -- nor is that a criticism of him. He's just in the last 25% of his career is all. While holding a no-trade clause guaranteed $200m over 4 years.

What would you expect to get for him?

[payitforward]

Is there no amazingly sucky Kyle Kuzma thread? I was going to post in there but I couldn’t find it, so I will post my thoughts here.

I loved all but three moves by the new management. First, resigning taj; second, not firing Wes; third, resigning Kuzma.

This guy will never be offensively efficient. He doesn’t think he is inefficient, so he sees no reason to correct his mistakes. I am quite confident that opposing coaches put in their game plan to allow Kuzma to shoot the three. That he will take it, and miss it more often than not. He was 1 for 10 last night and is 2 for 14 on the season. This clown is clueless and wuj allows it, even encourages it.

I'm not known as a big supporter of Kuz. & you're right that he didn't shoot well last night.

OTOH, how about 13 boards in 36 minutes? Three of them on the offensive side -- plus a steal.

Do we win without that stuff?

[penbeast0]

I think we can declare the off season over. The regular season starts tomorrow. We're down to 15 regular roster players & up to 3 two-way players.

So... I guess it's time to give the Wizards' 2023 off season a grade.
Only a preliminary grade, of course, since in many (maybe even most) cases we don't know yet how well the moves they made will work out.

Still... with that caveat declared, I'm going to try. Admittedly, btw, most of the below will have been said already -- by me, someone else, or most-maybe-all of us. I'm not trying to break new ground here, just to make explicit the conversation we've been having all Summer.

Obviously, the first off season moves, & the most important ones, were 1) firing Tommy Sheppard, & 2) bringing on Michael Winger & Will Dawkins. To me, everything else aside, these two moves on their own warrant giving this off season an A. The team has set off in an all-new direction.

Significant above all, in my mind at least, was Michael Winger's declaration that "we will contend for an NBA championship." He didn't say when, but he sit it as our goal, & he stated explicitly that we would reach that goal: that we will contend for a title.

I can't recall anyone connected with this organization saying anything like that -- not under Abe's ownership & not since Ted became owner.

Next came the draft, which Dawkins managed with boldness. Moving up for Bilal certainly looks to have been an A+ decision!

Equally obvious, the next significant off season move was trading Brad. That decision was essential -- independent of what we got back for him (much of which is in the future). It too is part of what earns this off season an A grade.

Now, with Brad gone, I'd say Porzingis' decision to leave was entirely to be expected. Thus, "losing" KP doesn't lower that A grade. In fact, getting Tyus Jones in the process reinforces a high assessment. Not to mention that the rights to Muscala & Gallinari also came in that deal.

Indeed, Dawkins also acquired the #35 pick in the '23 draft in that transaction -- which he proceeded to trade to the Bulls for their '26 & '27 R2 picks.

Given that Porzingis' decision was almost inevitable & not something over which Dawkins could extend any influence, I think it's fair to say that managing to come away with these assets earns high praise for our new GM.

OTOH, the acquisition of Jones led almost inevitably to trading Monte Morris for very very little (a R2 pick in '27) -- far less than he is worth as a player. To some degree at least, that cost detracts from the significance of the overall gain (which I don't question).

Following up the Beal trade by moving CP3 & a #57 pick for 3 young players was altogether sensible. We don't know how they'll turn out, any of them, but it was the right thing to do.

Now, if Trayce Jackson-Davis (whom GS took w/ the #57 they got from us in the trade) becomes a stud, we may revisit this part of the transaction -- especially if Patrick Baldwin doesn't pan out. In principle, however, it's hard to criticize trading the #57 pick this year for the guy taken #28 last year.

In any case, that's what I've got, & I'm sure no one will be surprised that, you bet, I give the Washington Wizards a solid A for their 2023 off season. The new guys are off to a terrific start!

I'm positive on the offseason overall. The Beal deal was as good as we could get considering the bad situation we put ourselves in. I give it an A.

I don't think we got as much value for Porzingis as we could. I love Tyus Jones, but I liked Morris nearly as much and we made close to a lateral move swapping one for the other, with a return of one 2nd I believe, and that's all we could get for Porzingis? That seems very weak. The Morris deal seemed poor in isolation as well.

We didn't successfully move Delon or Shamet, though we still could. Kuzma's resigning was questionable; I don't think he's an NBA starter, maybe an energy bench guy which is a role he could be good at but he doesn't shoot very well and yet shoots constantly. Deni's resigning was a good move, he plays defense and is still young and I think the number is reasonable for our situation.

I'm willing to ride out 3 bad years if we are sticking with youth and it looks like we are developing talent, 2 more as a marginal playoff team. At the end of that, I want to see a potential contender; if not, this is another false hope.

Overall, I give it a B, but it the best grade we've had in a long time and I hope to see this organization make us one of the smart teams in the league rather than the situation we've had for the last 40+ years.

[leswizards]

Is there no amazingly sucky Kyle Kuzma thread? I was going to post in there but I couldn’t find it, so I will post my thoughts here.

I loved all but three moves by the new management. First, resigning taj; second, not firing Wes; third, resigning Kuzma.

This guy will never be offensively efficient. He doesn’t think he is inefficient, so he sees no reason to correct his mistakes. I am quite confident that opposing coaches put in their game plan to allow Kuzma to shoot the three. That he will take it, and miss it more often than not. He was 1 for 10 last night and is 2 for 14 on the season. This clown is clueless and wuj allows it, even encourages it.

I'm not known as a big supporter of Kuz. & you're right that he didn't shoot well last night.

OTOH, how about 13 boards in 36 minutes? Three of them on the offensive side -- plus a steal.

Do we win without that stuff?

I don’t know. The were -1 for the ~36 minutes that Kuzma was on the floor. They were +8 for the ~12 minutes that he was on the bench. That doesn’t prove that they still would have won. But it does make it hard for those who would say the wizards would have lost without him to make a serious argument.

In the long run, I am quite confident that having Kuzma play ~35 mpg, and having a coach who plays him and does nothing to correct his flaws are detrimental to the ability of the Wizards to put together a championship team.

[doclinkin]

with Brad gone, I'd say Porzingis' decision to leave was entirely to be expected. Thus, "losing" KP doesn't lower that A grade. In fact, getting Tyus Jones in the process reinforces a high assessment. Not to mention that the rights to Muscala & Gallinari also came in that deal.

Indeed, Dawkins also acquired the #35 pick in the '23 draft in that transaction -- which he proceeded to trade to the Bulls for their '26 & '27 R2 picks.

Given that Porzingis' decision was almost inevitable & not something over which Dawkins could extend any influence, I think it's fair to say that managing to come away with these assets earns high praise for our new GM.

I don't think we got as much value for Porzingis as we could. I love Tyus Jones, but I liked Morris nearly as much and we made close to a lateral move swapping one for the other, with a return of one 2nd I believe, and that's all we could get for Porzingis? That seems very weak.

I personally like the Tyus Jones pick-up. Especially compared to the deal initially offered: Porzingis to Boston, Brogdon to LAC, LAC 30th pick to the Wiz.

Porzingis did us a favor. He told the team he was going to hit free agency, but wanted to go to a contender. Boston wanted him. So he could either walk for free and let teams bid for his services or extend-and-trade with a team of his choice to give the Wiz something back. The Clips didn't have time to run Brogdon thru a physical, so they backed out last minute. The Wiz got Jones instead, which made me very pleased.

Jones is an ideal counter to players like Kuzma and Poole. Those two will shoot us out of games with wild shots and loose play. I'm fine with that since we get entertaining losses, and better lotto odds. Jones however counters the bad examples by feeding young players the ball where they can be successful, so they learn who to listen to and model their game from. Jones exemplifies leadership in a way that Morris does not. There's a difference between calm and passive. Morris is efficient but does not exert his personality on a team. Reports from players voluntarily joining up in DC a month early called out Tyus as a leader etc. That's not the vibe you got from Monte. I like the guy, but Morris has been less of a 'follow-me' type floor leader and more of a game manager. He will hit open shots and make the right passes, he won't gather the troops and calm them down and talk them through what to do next. We had struggles trying to integrate young players between bench and starting roles, but the Grizz have had no problem with that the past few years despite being deep with youth on the bench.

I hope the Wiz are able to extend Jones since I think he will be a solid mentor and vet for whatever players come in those swaps and 2RPs. Add Muscala, Gallinari and the Bulls' 26 & 27 2nd round picks, and that is a good return on a player who was going to walk for nothing. Show me what other team Porzingis would want to go to who would have sent us back more?