All-Time Top 20 Position Peaks: Point Guard

[penbeast0]

I think tier one is pretty clearly Big O, Curry, and Magic (I count West as a shooting guard). I think I would have Nash and Frazier next, followed by Chris Paul, Luka, Kidd, Westbrook, and Penny.

Am curious what has you feeling Frazier’s peak is a parallel to Nash and ahead of CP3 (great shouts for Russ and Penny while we’re here )

Anyhow, I’ve always viewed Frazier as a better version of Pippen at his very best. Phenomenal player, but I am unsure if I can get as high myself.

Could also value finals performance highly.

[Rishkar]

On further consideration, I think I'm actually just underrating CP3 here. Frazier just looks really good from the film I've seen, and I would likely draft him before CP3 in some sort of all-time great playoffs, but I don't think I was giving Paul enough credit for his offensive production. I only started watching basketball when Paul was on the Suns, and after having seen more games from his prime, I think he should probably be in tier 2. I think of Paul as Oscar Robertson lite in a way, and his ability to dictate an offense is incredible. I'd likely add Stockton to tier 3 as well, the top 100 project has helped me contextualize his playoff failures and his regular seasons were just so dang strong that it feels like he should be in the same area as Penny and Kidd (but likely towards the bottom of that group).

[Owly]

Time for me to bump another classic thread to get a classic discussion brought back into the limelight. The point guard position is flourishing now more than ever and outside of Curry and Luka (maybe Dame depending on how much you value volume scoring from your floor general) it is so close to distinguish the next 10 point guards who all bring different philosophies to the game. The elite rim pressure of Ja Morant vs the cerebral passing of Halliburton. The lock down defense of Jrue Holiday vs the supersonic speed and clutch shooting of Dearon Fox. Do you prefer Jamal Murrays complete mastery of step back 3s and getting all the way to the rim for a dunk OR Jalen Brunsons beautiful high post footwork and midrange trickery? Because all of the point guards have raised the level of competition we may not ever discuss players like Darius Garland and Fred Vanvleet in discussions like this despite them being talented enough to have thrived in any era.

So with all this in mind I will make my top 30 list of greatest points guard peaks. Keep in mind the following points when considering my selections: I tend to value players in the sense of "if they all played today in some super GOAT league, who would be the best" or "If we had an all time draft with all 30 teams taking players at their peaks, who would I select first". Because of this I value players who have skill sets that cater towards the modern game (3 point range, PnR skills, two way play). I am not someone who likes to separate players by position but for the sake of this argument I have Luka and Magic as point guards while [Jerry West, Harden, Iverson and Pistol are not] I also think Cousy is just too dated and point guards from his era just don't have the same skills to compare to anyone on this list so he's out for me. Let's go....
Remember this is PEAKs only

Edit** I couldn't do it in 30 so 34 it is

1. Magic
2. Curry
3. CP3
4. Big O
5. Isiah Thomas
6. Nash
7. Luka
8. Penny Hardaway
9. Gary Payton
10. Stockton
11. Walt Frazier
12. Kidd
13. D. Rose
14. Westbrook
15. Dame
16. Chauncey Billups
17. Mark Price
18. Ja Morant
19. Mike Conely
20. Tony Parker
21. Kyle Lowry
22. Jamal Murray
23. Rajon Rondo
24. Terry Porter
25. Kevin Johnson
26. Jrue Holiday
27. Gilbert Arenas
28. Dearon Fox
29. Baron Davis
30. Tim Hardaway
31. Mookie Blaylock
32. Fat Lever
33. Trae Young
34. Terell Brandon

I’m not sure how you can write the bolded and then have Isiah Thomas at #5. Also, if Luka is on this list, then why not West or Harden?

IT peaking over Nash, Luka, Penny, Rose and Westbrook is wild.
I assume this is driven solely by...???

This.

You kids not understanding how good Isiah Thomas was is so funny to me. Just because he wasn't shooting 40% from three doesn't negate the fact that he had the best handles and was too shifty and quick for any one to guard him in ANY era.

As far the Luka thing. Duh! I honestly agree and I don't like ranking by position but I was just bumping an old thread and going by their rules. Lebron is a point guard too as far as I'm concerned. I chose Luka because he is listed as a point guard on basketball reference while Harden and West split time and traditionally are known as shooting guards in the circles I discuss with. I have no problem with you making that argument but just chose to do Luka because of BBREF even though I don't necessarily agree with the criteria either. If you really want to break it down and set the criteria for what a point guard means then go for it . I don't feel like doing that.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using RealGM mobile app

Not shooting 40% from 3 is something of a non-sequitur
...
of alternates listed in one of the quotes you're responding to
...

Nash, Luka, Penny, Rose and Westbrook

1/5 is at (or remotely close to) 40% from three.

Fwiw, I would argue unlocking the high-side case from Isiah probably requires arguing playoff 3pt shooting and to a greater degree turnover economy were "real" rather than random variance.

was too shifty and quick for any one to guard him in ANY era

Does the fact that he couldn't leverage that effectively into good shots - at least for himself (-771.3 career TS Add, one year above league average TS) - or a better than pedestrian A/T ratio (an imperfect measure for sure but if no one can stay in front of him or guard him period shouldn't he or a teammate getting a basket be relatively simple) not negate the value of this somewhat.

[Owly]

Evaluate, discuss, post your own, list is meant to be a discussion starter in trying to pin down some more concrete rankings. I didn't feel like over-complicating things by listing individual seasons but I can add them later if desired.

NOTE: Penny, West, Maravich all evaluated as Shooting Guards for this list

Top 20 PG Peaks

1. Magic Johnson
2. Steve Nash
3. Chris Paul
4. Oscar Robertson
5. Gary Payton
6. Isiah Thomas
7. Allen Iverson
8. Jason Kidd
9. Kevin Johnson
10. Walt Frazier

11. Gilbert Arenas
12. Nate Archibald
13. Derrick Rose
14. Deron Williams
15. John Stockton
16. Tim Hardaway
17. Tony Parker
18. Stephen Curry
19. Russell Westbrook
20. Chauncey Billups

Any noticeable omissions, corrections, etc?

EDIT 1: Removed Mark Price, Inserted Tiny Archibald
EDIT 2: Removed Stephon Marbury, Inserted Lenny Wilkins
EDIT 3: Removed Lenny Wilkins, Inserted Mark Price
EDIT 4: Removed Mark Price, Added Gilbert Arenas

So Jerry West who led the league in Assists and was #1 in assist on his own team every year but his rookie year is a SG but Allen Iverson is a PG? That's almost worse than having Iverson presumed peak 11 spots ahead of Steph Curry's peak.

The "generous" perspective would be to point out the original post was from 2013. The question then would be when were edits done.

[penbeast0]

Ah, missed that. Thanks.