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Deandre Ayton appreciation thread

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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#21 » by Son of Ra » Sun Oct 1, 2023 7:59 am

bwgood77 wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:That was the best one
I bow to you…. Question is
How long before it shows up on a portland thread?


Gotta mark that game on our calendars. Hope the Blazers fans take to nicknaming. Theyve got a library of them to choose from. It was definitely a big coping mechanism for us as our hopes for our #1 pick were evaporayton.


I was thinking about it...every time Ayton gets the ball in the paint and doesn't keep it high, Book will for sure swipe very hard to knock it out, and probably instruct others to do so. Will probably try and dunk on him too.

Booker posterizing him first game in Portland and then just getting back on defense like he hit a mid range jumper would be hilarious.
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#22 » by kennydorglas » Mon Oct 2, 2023 1:28 am

Wish nothing but the best.
Glad hes not here anymore tho
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#23 » by KdoubleDees23 » Mon Oct 2, 2023 3:51 pm

Sad to see so many bad fans! Dude was on one of the three finals teams and helped a lot in 2021 to get us there. Yet you are all just a bunch of angry men who never played a sport. Be Better
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#24 » by SunsRback4Good » Mon Oct 2, 2023 4:48 pm

KdoubleDees23 wrote:Sad to see so many bad fans! Dude was on one of the three finals teams and helped a lot in 2021 to get us there. Yet you are all just a bunch of angry men who never played a sport. Be Better


Maybe when you turn 21 you’ll realize how weak minded Ayton was and hurt our team in last two playoff years. The dude is a 7 foot beast, #1 overall pick, received a max contract, and yet didn’t play like a max contract. He’s a good player will likely make all star a couple of years, but won’t have any other accolades to show for it. We should’ve drafted Luka considering we had his coach instead our stupid owner decided to support UofA wildcats and you know the rest. Watch when Ayton struggles to be a #1 or #2 option in Portland we will see what kind of tune you will be singing then.
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#25 » by lonea » Mon Oct 2, 2023 6:11 pm

KdoubleDees23 wrote:Sad to see so many bad fans! Dude was on one of the three finals teams and helped a lot in 2021 to get us there. Yet you are all just a bunch of angry men who never played a sport. Be Better


There is no anger. Ayton sucks, period. :lol:
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#26 » by KdoubleDees23 » Tue Oct 3, 2023 9:03 pm

SunsRback4Good wrote:
KdoubleDees23 wrote:Sad to see so many bad fans! Dude was on one of the three finals teams and helped a lot in 2021 to get us there. Yet you are all just a bunch of angry men who never played a sport. Be Better


Maybe when you turn 21 you’ll realize how weak minded Ayton was and hurt our team in last two playoff years. The dude is a 7 foot beast, #1 overall pick, received a max contract, and yet didn’t play like a max contract. He’s a good player will likely make all star a couple of years, but won’t have any other accolades to show for it. We should’ve drafted Luka considering we had his coach instead our stupid owner decided to support UofA wildcats and you know the rest. Watch when Ayton struggles to be a #1 or #2 option in Portland we will see what kind of tune you will be singing then.


Portland he is #2,3

Also - what has booker done? Please let me know how many rings he has brought us
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#27 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 3, 2023 10:08 pm

KdoubleDees23 wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
KdoubleDees23 wrote:Sad to see so many bad fans! Dude was on one of the three finals teams and helped a lot in 2021 to get us there. Yet you are all just a bunch of angry men who never played a sport. Be Better


Maybe when you turn 21 you’ll realize how weak minded Ayton was and hurt our team in last two playoff years. The dude is a 7 foot beast, #1 overall pick, received a max contract, and yet didn’t play like a max contract. He’s a good player will likely make all star a couple of years, but won’t have any other accolades to show for it. We should’ve drafted Luka considering we had his coach instead our stupid owner decided to support UofA wildcats and you know the rest. Watch when Ayton struggles to be a #1 or #2 option in Portland we will see what kind of tune you will be singing then.


Portland he is #2,3

Also - what has booker done? Please let me know how many rings he has brought us

How many rings has Barkley, Amare, Nash etc brought us? They on the same tier as DA in your books?
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#28 » by Dr Manute » Tue Oct 3, 2023 10:30 pm

I dug up the two red flags I posted back when we had the Ayton / Doncic debate before we drafted him. Ayton's mindset / priorities shouldn't be a surprise. I wish him the best in Portland. But we were never going to win our 1st championship with him - it just isn't a priority for him. He has all the physical tools, but lacks the mentality. Time to turn the page.


Read on Twitter


Likely No. 1 pick Deandre Ayton on what he would consider a success in the NBA: “Definitely getting to that second contract. That’s my success.”


https://www.pscp.tv/w/1BRJjebeZkaGw
22:54
Ayton asks CJ McCullom, “You have all this money but what is your main drive? You don’t have to work”
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#29 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 3, 2023 10:52 pm

Dr Manute wrote:I dug up the two red flags I posted back when we had the Ayton / Doncic debate before we drafted him. Ayton's mindset / priorities shouldn't be a surprise. I wish him the best in Portland. But we were never going to win our 1st championship with him - it just isn't a priority for him. He has all the physical tools, but lacks the mentality. Time to turn the page.


Read on Twitter


Likely No. 1 pick Deandre Ayton on what he would consider a success in the NBA: “Definitely getting to that second contract. That’s my success.”


https://www.pscp.tv/w/1BRJjebeZkaGw
22:54
Ayton asks CJ McCullom, “You have all this money but what is your main drive? You don’t have to work”

Red flags have always been there, but people want to ignore it as a throwaway comment. I do think if he was closer to a mid- lotto talent, these types of comments would put under a microscope by teams to a much greater extent which would push him further down the 1st round but because he is this talented and has the perfect NBA body, you can overlook some of these red flags and hope he matures out of it.
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#30 » by Mulhollanddrive » Tue Oct 3, 2023 11:33 pm

McDonough was seduced by mentally soft players who looked like his athletic fantasy.

Len, Ayton, Jackson, Bender, Chriss.

He would have never been appointed under Ishbia with no experience at anything so luckily that era is now behind us save for Booker.
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#31 » by sunskerr » Tue Oct 3, 2023 11:34 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:Red flags have always been there, but people want to ignore it as a throwaway comment. I do think if he was closer to a mid- lotto talent, these types of comments would put under a microscope by teams to a much greater extent which would push him further down the 1st round but because he is this talented and has the perfect NBA body, you can overlook some of these red flags and hope he matures out of it.


What would your redraft look like in hindsight?

1 Luka?
2 SGA?
3 Trae
4 JJJ
5 Mikal

That top 5 is imo set FIRMLY in stone. Luka vs SGA is close. My heart (head?) says SGA but people will get mad. Can't put Mikal higher than JJJ and Trae because of his age (27). But below that now we get to where Ayton could be drafted

6 Brunson
7 Simons
8 Ayton
9 Williams III
10 MPJ
11 WCJ

Now this is interesting here. My belief is that Simons is individually a more talented player than Brunson (and Ayton) but just hasn't shown it full time yet. He's a great shot creator, good distributor with a superb 3 ball (averaged 3.0+ 3PG last year). I think this resume makes him inherently more valuable than what Ayton has shown. If Simons doesn't take a leap next year and Ayton does, it reverses. But I think Simons if he breaks out can actually overtake Brunson whereas Ayton probably can't even if he breaks out, which also another reason why Simons is ahead. Also Simons D-EPM is -1.0 which is not good at all but it's not very bad/terrible which suggests he's been maligned unfairly.

That will probably make some people mad but I think it's founded in reality. I'd be interested to hear otherwise. Michael Porter Jr is interesting. Average defender but absolute gun on the wing with 3.0 3PG. But he has quite frankly more scary injury history than even Robert Williams III who I put above him. It's very close though and I feel like you could put either of those two in those 9-10 spots. Heck maybe even an argument for MPJ above Ayton because of the shooting impact - but the injury history is just that bad.

So even Ayton with the 2nd contract talk probably can't fall very far given who is below him.
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#32 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Oct 4, 2023 1:01 am

sunskerr wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Red flags have always been there, but people want to ignore it as a throwaway comment. I do think if he was closer to a mid- lotto talent, these types of comments would put under a microscope by teams to a much greater extent which would push him further down the 1st round but because he is this talented and has the perfect NBA body, you can overlook some of these red flags and hope he matures out of it.


What would your redraft look like in hindsight?

1 Luka?
2 SGA?
3 Trae
4 JJJ
5 Mikal

That top 5 is imo set FIRMLY in stone. Luka vs SGA is close. My heart (head?) says SGA but people will get mad. Can't put Mikal higher than JJJ and Trae because of his age (27). But below that now we get to where Ayton could be drafted

6 Brunson
7 Simons
8 Ayton
9 Williams III
10 MPJ
11 WCJ

Now this is interesting here. My belief is that Simons is individually a more talented player than Brunson (and Ayton) but just hasn't shown it full time yet. He's a great shot creator, good distributor with a superb 3 ball (averaged 3.0+ 3PG last year). I think this resume makes him inherently more valuable than what Ayton has shown. If Simons doesn't take a leap next year and Ayton does, it reverses. But I think Simons if he breaks out can actually overtake Brunson whereas Ayton probably can't even if he breaks out, which also another reason why Simons is ahead. Also Simons D-EPM is -1.0 which is not good at all but it's not very bad/terrible which suggests he's been maligned unfairly.

That will probably make some people mad but I think it's founded in reality. I'd be interested to hear otherwise. Michael Porter Jr is interesting. Average defender but absolute gun on the wing with 3.0 3PG. But he has quite frankly more scary injury history than even Robert Williams III who I put above him. It's very close though and I feel like you could put either of those two in those 9-10 spots. Heck maybe even an argument for MPJ above Ayton because of the shooting impact - but the injury history is just that bad.

So even Ayton with the 2nd contract talk probably can't fall very far given who is below him.

To be clear, my comment was about if that 2nd contract comment was said by someone with lesser talent than DA and how that would affect their draft stock ahead of the draft. DA's talent was off the charts and that kind of comment is easy to gloss over.

1. Luka

In terms of redrafting, I have Luka firmly at #1. The guy has 4 all-star selections, 4 1st team all-NBA selections and a WCF appearance to his name and he's been in the league for 5 years. Not making a comparison but Lebron/KD are the kinda guys I can think of off the top of my head with that kind of first 5 season achievement since the mid 2000's.

2. SGA
I think SGA is a stud and his team has obviously been focused rebuilding, so he hasn't had the kind of success Luka has had but I still think Luka is comfortably ahead of him. I expect big things for SGA this year with another improvement to the OKC roster.

3. Brunson
Trae might be the logical selection here given what he's done on the court and in the playoffs but I'm actually gonna go with a wild selection here. Hear me out. I think Trae and JJJr is more talented, but I put a lot of stock in playoff performances, scoring efficiency and not being a massive liability. He was a playoff stud next to Luka for the Mavs team that got to the WCF's, then had a massive break out season this past season and averaged almost 28ppg in the playoffs for the Knicks while being their best player.

4. Trae
As mentioned, I think he's more talented than JJJ and Brunson and has done more but the question going forward around can you win with a 6ft nothing PG who is a liability on defense and seems to have a bit of an attitude problem is becoming harder and harder to ignore. JJJr doesn't have the kind of liabilities that Trae has but I also don't think JJJr would be as good if he was thrust into the #1 option spot like Trae has been and has embraced. Being the #1 option has its pros and cons. You get more attention, get hyped up by the media and people just know your game more but can also put your game under a microscope. Whereas with JJJr, he's like the 3rd option on a team where the load is almost entirely on Ja and Banes' shoulders. It's easier to not look bad when you're not the #1 option with the media attention on you.

5. JJJr
This is where I think multiple players can have a strong case to be ranked. Mikal, JJJ, Ayton and even MPJ could be there imo. I'll put JJJr here because he is the reigning DPOY, he's a 2x 1st team All-D selection, he is an all-star, his game fits very nicely in the modern NBA being able to defend, switch, shoot 3's and he's just a guy that can fit on most teams in the NBA. He also doesn't have any glaring liabilities. Maybe the foul trouble is problematic, and his creation ability isn't high level, but neither are serious liabilities.

6. Mikal
Now that we've seen what he looks like as the go-to guy, it's clear he has an all-star game. It's a shame we couldn't tap into that potential, but I will continue to root for the guy wherever he goes (unless it's the Lakers). I love Mikal and he's #1 on my list as my favourite player but this is not what we're talking about here however, while I think he's had a ridiculous break out season last season (and all the other positives), I think you have to give him more time and opportunity to prove it's sustainable. With him, I just need to see more. He has a breakout season of sorts but that was through 27 regular season games and a 4 game sweep in the playoffs. I have high confidence he'll continue to improve his game so I'm comfortable with him at #6 right now.

7. Ayton
I'll keep it short. I don't think he's a bust but he's far from fulfilling his potential as the #1 pick in a loaded draft. Just doing some half-ass internet research of other 2018 redrafts, none of have him in the top 3 and the highest I've seen is #4 so that probably says enough. He's still a quality player, efficient, good rebounder, low turnover and a low foul C. In the same way Mikal has had a break out with a change in role with the Nets, Ayton could have that with the Blazers although that might be dampened by the fact that they have two guards they are super high on but I wouldn't underestimate what a change in scenery can do for a player.

8. MPJ
Always was and will be an injury concern but has #1 pick talent and clearly played a role for a championship team, albeit as their 4th more important player. I have him over Simons simply because he's an NBA champion and can play a role for a championship calibre team.

9. Simons

While I like WCJ more I think Simons has a more sought-after NBA skill as a scoring guard. Personally, not a big fan of his because he's a big defensive liability and I don't like the way he plays with blinders on at times but he is closer to being an all-star than WCJ and as you mentioned, he still has further breakout potential.

10. WCJ
I do like him quite a lot. Shoots 3's, defends, good mobility, solid NBA C but he's #10 for me. I had him above RW3, who I also like but RW3 is a lot closer to a one-dimensional specialist than a more well-rounded player in WCJ
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#33 » by bigfoot » Wed Oct 4, 2023 1:29 am

bigfoot wrote:Biggest mistake in Suns history


I posted this before his Blazer presser and James Jones comments about Nurkic being a good fit and a center doing the job without complaining. I still stand behind DA as the single biggest mistake in Suns history, He single-handedly derailed the Suns championship aspirations with Booker, Bridges, Cam Johnson, and himself as pivotal pieces.

I will not engage in this 2018 redraft about where Ayton should be picked. Instead I throw out the most simple of claims. Deandre Ayton will likely go down as the most hated Suns player in the history of the franchise. I am hard pressed to even think of another Suns player that would be despised half as much and I've watched the Suns since their inception. The only other component of the Suns that could even be considered as bad as Ayton was in the front office in both Sarver and Ryan McD.

If there was a Suns ring of Dishonor, those three would be it.
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#34 » by Frank Lee » Wed Oct 4, 2023 2:03 am

Markief says hi

Worst thing to happen to Ayton was getting selected #1. Second worse thing was not hiring a PR/interview coach. He fueled much of the heat gone his way.

And, hes still at it…. I mean, when you think of Grit, you think of DA? I actually feel bad for the kid. Fragile mind in the spot light. Train wreck candidate. Seriously, in all of his time here, does anyone recall a mention of a mentor or cornerman helping him out??? He needs some couch time
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#35 » by bigfoot » Wed Oct 4, 2023 2:08 am

Frank Lee wrote:Markief says hi

Worst thing to happen to Ayton was getting selected #1. Second worse thing was not hiring a PR/interview coach. He fueled much of the heat gone his way.

And, hes still at it…. I mean, when you think of Grit, you think of DA? I actually feel bad for the kid. Fragile mind in the spot light. Train wreck candidate. Seriously, in all of his time here, does anyone recall a mention of a mentor or cornerman helping him out??? He needs some couch time


Not even close to DA. Kief didn't dash championship opportunities. Only one I can even think of might be Antonio McDyess.
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#36 » by Bogyo » Wed Oct 4, 2023 5:51 am

bigfoot wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Markief says hi

Worst thing to happen to Ayton was getting selected #1. Second worse thing was not hiring a PR/interview coach. He fueled much of the heat gone his way.

And, hes still at it…. I mean, when you think of Grit, you think of DA? I actually feel bad for the kid. Fragile mind in the spot light. Train wreck candidate. Seriously, in all of his time here, does anyone recall a mention of a mentor or cornerman helping him out??? He needs some couch time


Not even close to DA. Kief didn't dash championship opportunities. Only one I can even think of might be Antonio McDyess.


Difference: MoBros were trash human beings, but tried on the court. Ayton is not a trash human, but has a LOT of problems above his neck, some of that is affecting his playing as well.
And1 for the McDyess namedrop. I LOVED the guy in his Denver "McNugget" days and was soooo stoked when we got him... sigh... :(
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#37 » by handsome salary » Wed Oct 4, 2023 1:48 pm

So this is where we appreciate that he's gone? I'm in.

Guy didn't want to put in the work that comes with being the number one pick and a big big contract. Thinks he's already "there". What a waste of time he was.
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#38 » by lonea » Wed Oct 4, 2023 4:17 pm

Ayton shouldn't even be in the top 10.

This is the reason why suns fans don't like ayton



When your #1 pick can barely dribble and can't even catch a pass without butterfingering
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#39 » by sunskerr » Wed Oct 4, 2023 6:45 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:To be clear, my comment was about if that 2nd contract comment was said by someone with lesser talent than DA and how that would affect their draft stock ahead of the draft. DA's talent was off the charts and that kind of comment is easy to gloss over.

1. Luka

In terms of redrafting, I have Luka firmly at #1. The guy has 4 all-star selections, 4 1st team all-NBA selections and a WCF appearance to his name and he's been in the league for 5 years. Not making a comparison but Lebron/KD are the kinda guys I can think of off the top of my head with that kind of first 5 season achievement since the mid 2000's.

2. SGA
I think SGA is a stud and his team has obviously been focused rebuilding, so he hasn't had the kind of success Luka has had but I still think Luka is comfortably ahead of him. I expect big things for SGA this year with another improvement to the OKC roster.

3. Brunson
Trae might be the logical selection here given what he's done on the court and in the playoffs but I'm actually gonna go with a wild selection here. Hear me out. I think Trae and JJJr is more talented, but I put a lot of stock in playoff performances, scoring efficiency and not being a massive liability. He was a playoff stud next to Luka for the Mavs team that got to the WCF's, then had a massive break out season this past season and averaged almost 28ppg in the playoffs for the Knicks while being their best player.

4. Trae
As mentioned, I think he's more talented than JJJ and Brunson and has done more but the question going forward around can you win with a 6ft nothing PG who is a liability on defense and seems to have a bit of an attitude problem is becoming harder and harder to ignore. JJJr doesn't have the kind of liabilities that Trae has but I also don't think JJJr would be as good if he was thrust into the #1 option spot like Trae has been and has embraced. Being the #1 option has its pros and cons. You get more attention, get hyped up by the media and people just know your game more but can also put your game under a microscope. Whereas with JJJr, he's like the 3rd option on a team where the load is almost entirely on Ja and Banes' shoulders. It's easier to not look bad when you're not the #1 option with the media attention on you.

5. JJJr
This is where I think multiple players can have a strong case to be ranked. Mikal, JJJ, Ayton and even MPJ could be there imo. I'll put JJJr here because he is the reigning DPOY, he's a 2x 1st team All-D selection, he is an all-star, his game fits very nicely in the modern NBA being able to defend, switch, shoot 3's and he's just a guy that can fit on most teams in the NBA. He also doesn't have any glaring liabilities. Maybe the foul trouble is problematic, and his creation ability isn't high level, but neither are serious liabilities.

6. Mikal
Now that we've seen what he looks like as the go-to guy, it's clear he has an all-star game. It's a shame we couldn't tap into that potential, but I will continue to root for the guy wherever he goes (unless it's the Lakers). I love Mikal and he's #1 on my list as my favourite player but this is not what we're talking about here however, while I think he's had a ridiculous break out season last season (and all the other positives), I think you have to give him more time and opportunity to prove it's sustainable. With him, I just need to see more. He has a breakout season of sorts but that was through 27 regular season games and a 4 game sweep in the playoffs. I have high confidence he'll continue to improve his game so I'm comfortable with him at #6 right now.

7. Ayton
I'll keep it short. I don't think he's a bust but he's far from fulfilling his potential as the #1 pick in a loaded draft. Just doing some half-ass internet research of other 2018 redrafts, none of have him in the top 3 and the highest I've seen is #4 so that probably says enough. He's still a quality player, efficient, good rebounder, low turnover and a low foul C. In the same way Mikal has had a break out with a change in role with the Nets, Ayton could have that with the Blazers although that might be dampened by the fact that they have two guards they are super high on but I wouldn't underestimate what a change in scenery can do for a player.

8. MPJ
Always was and will be an injury concern but has #1 pick talent and clearly played a role for a championship team, albeit as their 4th more important player. I have him over Simons simply because he's an NBA champion and can play a role for a championship calibre team.

9. Simons

While I like WCJ more I think Simons has a more sought-after NBA skill as a scoring guard. Personally, not a big fan of his because he's a big defensive liability and I don't like the way he plays with blinders on at times but he is closer to being an all-star than WCJ and as you mentioned, he still has further breakout potential.

10. WCJ
I do like him quite a lot. Shoots 3's, defends, good mobility, solid NBA C but he's #10 for me. I had him above RW3, who I also like but RW3 is a lot closer to a one-dimensional specialist than a more well-rounded player in WCJ


Hmm...RWIII over WCJ...I might actually agree with that. If Ayton doesn't improve or has another year like last year WCJ could easily overtake him.

Disagree with MPJ having #1 pick talent. I think his handles are very limited, certainly doesnt create as well as Mikal Bridges does now. Defense is average too.

I heard you out about Brunson and I still think you're insane :lol: And Im no Trae fan because he sucks at defense but hes as good as Luka/Shai offensively. He is that team's offense. Like there is a planet and then some of offensive talent between him and Brunson. But I think ultimately JJJ/Mikal/Brunson are all very close.

And again I have to restate Simons is probably not as bad defensively as people think he is. Not a positive or neutral guy on that end but he's not terrible. And Im wondering how that narrative came to be in the first place. And on the bright side he also has great athleticism and he's 6'3" not any shorter.
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Re: Deandre Ayton appreciation thread 

Post#40 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Oct 4, 2023 11:49 pm

sunskerr wrote:Hmm...RWIII over WCJ...I might actually agree with that. If Ayton doesn't improve or has another year like last year WCJ could easily overtake him.

Disagree with MPJ having #1 pick talent. I think his handles are very limited, certainly doesnt create as well as Mikal Bridges does now. Defense is average too.

I heard you out about Brunson and I still think you're insane :lol: And Im no Trae fan because he sucks at defense but hes as good as Luka/Shai offensively. He is that team's offense. Like there is a planet and then some of offensive talent between him and Brunson. But I think ultimately JJJ/Mikal/Brunson are all very close.

And again I have to restate Simons is probably not as bad defensively as people think he is. Not a positive or neutral guy on that end but he's not terrible. And Im wondering how that narrative came to be in the first place. And on the bright side he also has great athleticism and he's 6'3" not any shorter.

With MPJ, he was a consensus #1 or #2 guy coming out of HS and it wasn't until he had that back injury and surgery after that he started to fall. So he had top pick talent but injuries really derailed his draft stock and then being out his whole rookie season plus only playing 9 games in his 3rd season really hurt his development imo. So he clearly has the talent (like DA), he has been pretty productive and very efficient when healthy and I just think playing on a team with Jokic running the show, Murray as the clear #2 guy, he's been relegated to being a finisher/shooter so he never really developed his iso game. I do honestly see a lot of similarities between DA and MPJ. Both are overpaid given what they produce, both were 3rd/4th bananas on their respective teams and neither have reached their talent ceiling.

On Brunson, yeah totally get it and I take no offense on being called on this. My redraft here has a lot of recency bias given Trae got booted in the 1st rd by the Celtics whereas Brunson averaged 31ppg on elite efficiency against the Heat in the 2nd round which was more impressive to me. And I just can't quite get over Trae's size, defense, attitude and that his offense which his his calling card, sees a pretty sizeable dip in efficiency once he's in the playoffs. That's not unusual because teams play harder in the playoffs, but Brunson still managed to hit league average efficiency even in the post-season. Trae had really good early success and deserved the accolades but as time goes on and his flaws become more evident, I just think it might be easier to build a championship roster that has a Brunson as opposed to a Trae. On the surface, it is kinda insane to have Brunson over Trae and relooking at the list, yeah it does look crazy so I don't blame anyone for thinking that but when you dig a little bit below the surface, I think Trae is overrated whereas Brunson just gets slept on.

Happy to agree to disagree on Simons. I'm just not a big fan of his and clearly Portland already has Scoot and Shae above him despite him still being young, productive and has some really good modern NBA skills.

As for WCJ, I just like his game. He doesn't have the size or overall talent DA might have but he reminds me a lot of 2nd half career Horford. In is mid-30's already but Horford is still really useful because he can defend, he plays smart and he shoots the 3 ball well. WCJ won't have massive 40/20 games or anything but he could easily have a long career as a solid modern NBA C while playing on contenders. He's already on his rookie extension paying him around $12m a year, just a bargain imo.

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