2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion

[lilfishi22]

Question for you guys: if the Suns had this current roster last year vs the Nuggets, does the series end differently? I think we all know the answer to that. Getting there healthy is everything.


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I think it might have even been different had Chris Paul not got injured. No idea with this team though because we haven’t seen one minute of them.

Denver is a well rounded team with the perfect role for each player. They are still the favourites,

I thought about that but honestly, I'm not even confident had CP3 not gotten injured that we would've necessarily gotten past the Nuggets. CP3 just plain wasn't good even when he was healthy. If we had gotten 2021 or even 2022 playoff CP3, that might be a different story

[lilfishi22]

Also he was no.2 option with our injuries for a couple months and he became a worse player because his extra shots were 40% jumpers.

this is while Mikal was greatly stepping up and developing himself as a primary option (compare January numbers for both guys). This is why I am skeptical that DA will blossom in the same way that Bridges did. There was opportunity for him to take advantage of increased usage, but he didn't succeed.

Different skillset. One guy developed his handles to the point where he can create almost anywhere on the court while the other is still on the jab step into a jump shoot routine from 2019. In today's NBA, if you can't confidently put the ball on the floor without creating a turnover, you're just going to have to be reliant on others to set you up or take whatever jump shot or put back opportunities you get.

[lilfishi22]

Question for you guys: if the Suns had this current roster last year vs the Nuggets, does the series end differently? I think we all know the answer to that. Getting there healthy is everything.


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Who knows? We haven't even seen this current team play yet. Denver was very tough last year. The games we won we barely won and the games we lost were bad. In game 5, KD was like 10-24 with 5 turnovers and Book was 8-19. In game 6, Book was 4-13 with a -27 and KD was 8-19 with 4 turnovers.

Does it surprise you? Both guys averaged 43mpg throughout the entire playoffs up to that point. Once CP3 went down, that was another ball handler down. I mean, the most scoring we got from anybody outside of KD and Book was a 22pt effort from Torrey Craig in like G1 of the 1st round.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Well, I can't wholly blame him.

I can't think of any #1 pick who's job is basically play defense and do the dirty work, have zero plays run for him.

Monty and James Jones need to take their fair share of the blame and bitching and moaning around here.

It's an offensive star's league nowadays, and we picked a center not known for his passing or 3 point shot.

Let's **** move on and win games, gel, and lock-in.

Andrew Bogut won championships by basically playing the role they needed out of Ayton this year.

Fultz is a role player on a mediocre team, Ben Simmons wishes he was a role player on a mediocre team.

Just because you were the 1st pick it doesn't necessarily mean the O needs to be built around you.

But yeah drafting a C with his skill set 1 was dumb the day they did it.

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He didn't win any championship on a max contract, and he was well past his prime. He was nothing but a 5th option, release valve on those warrior teams, as he should have been. Injuries did him in. He was always a monster rebounder and shot blocker and was drafted for these things.

When you cherry pick somebody, at least make it make sense.

Ayton was told to focus on defense and efficiency for 3+ years, and he was pretty damn serviceable at those things. Monty's system and our ball dominant guards wanted to take their shots, and they did. We lost when it mattered.

Bogut was 27 when he was traded and on a big contract. But yeah that elbow injury was bad.

Maybe it's a cherry pick because it's one that I know well as I grew up in Wisconsin and also root for the Bucks. I've always thought Bogut and Ayton were similar 1st overall picks where they never quite lived up to the hype and a guy picked right after them (CP and Luka) were much better, but neither were busts either.

My point was Bogut was a guy who read the room and adapted his game to win. I don't think Ayton has 'that' in him.

I will have to disagree that Ayton did a good job focusing on D the past 3 years. He had stretches including the finals run where he was good but he was flat out bad defensively last season and not exactly great there in 21/22 either. Why? My personal belief is he simply never wanted to be that guy.

Maybe he'll be the offensive player he thinks he can be in Portland but even if he does I have a hard time seeing a team who's O is Ayton focused actually winning at a high level.

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[bwgood77]

Question for you guys: if the Suns had this current roster last year vs the Nuggets, does the series end differently? I think we all know the answer to that. Getting there healthy is everything.


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Who knows? We haven't even seen this current team play yet. Denver was very tough last year. The games we won we barely won and the games we lost were bad. In game 5, KD was like 10-24 with 5 turnovers and Book was 8-19. In game 6, Book was 4-13 with a -27 and KD was 8-19 with 4 turnovers.

Does it surprise you? Both guys averaged 43mpg throughout the entire playoffs up to that point. Once CP3 went down, that was another ball handler down. I mean, the most scoring we got from anybody outside of KD and Book was a 22pt effort from Torrey Craig in like G1 of the 1st round.

No it didn't totally surprise me based on previous' year's results. I expect those guys to play nearly the whole games in the playoffs if they are not blowouts. Most stars do. I didn't expect anyone else to score much given those guys were going to probably take a combined 40-50 shots.

[WeekapaugGroove]

This team barely has any two man combinations who have ever played together. Who the hell knows how they will look.

I like the roster construction though so I'm hopeful it comes together. But I expect some early pains as they figure lineups who work together.

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[bwoolf2]

This team barely has any two man combinations who have ever played together. Who the hell knows how they will look.

I like the roster construction though so I'm hopeful it comes together. But I expect some early pains as they figure lineups who work together.

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Ya likely takes some time why am actually interested in preseason this year, think the Suns actually need to work on lineups and things that actually matter and will take it more seriously than most years, with as stacked as the west is there not much room for error.

[lilfishi22]

Who knows? We haven't even seen this current team play yet. Denver was very tough last year. The games we won we barely won and the games we lost were bad. In game 5, KD was like 10-24 with 5 turnovers and Book was 8-19. In game 6, Book was 4-13 with a -27 and KD was 8-19 with 4 turnovers.

Does it surprise you? Both guys averaged 43mpg throughout the entire playoffs up to that point. Once CP3 went down, that was another ball handler down. I mean, the most scoring we got from anybody outside of KD and Book was a 22pt effort from Torrey Craig in like G1 of the 1st round.

No it didn't totally surprise me based on previous' year's results. I expect those guys to play nearly the whole games in the playoffs if they are not blowouts. Most stars do. I didn't expect anyone else to score much given those guys were going to probably take a combined 40-50 shots.

One of the main things we tried to address this offseason is to add more scoring depth around those two and I think we've done that. Also Bridges in the previous playoffs was playing close to 40mpg as well but he's not generating and taking 20+ shots a game which in and of itself is super taxing. So, it's not just the minutes played because I expect the big 3 to log very heavy minutes, especially in the playoffs but it's also what kind of things are they doing out there that would be extra taxing on the body.

[lilfishi22]

This team barely has any two man combinations who have ever played together. Who the hell knows how they will look.

I like the roster construction though so I'm hopeful it comes together. But I expect some early pains as they figure lineups who work together.

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For reference, we were 8-8 in the early part of the first season integrating CP3. I would not be surprised if we have a shakey record to start the season with a brand new team around Book and a whole new system/head coach

[enigmatics]

Ayton was told to focus on defense and efficiency for 3+ years, and he was pretty damn serviceable at those things. Monty's system and our ball dominant guards wanted to take their shots, and they did. We lost when it mattered.

They had ball "dominant" guards and wings because their former #1 draft pick never fully developed offensively. Extremely efficient finisher and excellent mid range for a big - but he chose to leave it at that.

I'd argue he spent more time in the off-season playing video games than working on his handles, 3pt shot, footwork, etc. Did we ever hear him hanging with or going to one of the vaunted big man camps in the summer to improve? Nope.

Those same ball dominant guards/wings also set the table for what he did do well. With no handles, often poor hands, and unwillingness to back guys down his numbers would be different without them as the legend of "Dominayton" existed only in his head.

This wasn't some situation where the coaching staff was just like "We've got this unstoppable offensive force - let's just purposely never take advantage."

[enigmatics]

This team barely has any two man combinations who have ever played together. Who the hell knows how they will look.

I like the roster construction though so I'm hopeful it comes together. But I expect some early pains as they figure lineups who work together.

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For reference, we were 8-8 in the early part of the first season integrating CP3. I would not be surprised if we have a shakey record to start the season with a brand new team around Book and a whole new system/head coach

Yeah it'll take some time but the expectation is with this particular group of vets (Book, KD, Beal) it shouldn't be concerningly long.

[enigmatics]

So wait Gambo is conflicting DA's story about the Suns honoring his trade wishes?

This kid Deandre man smh. So insecure.

[NapoleonII]

Ayton was told to focus on defense and efficiency for 3+ years, and he was pretty damn serviceable at those things. Monty's system and our ball dominant guards wanted to take their shots, and they did. We lost when it mattered.

They had ball "dominant" guards and wings because their former #1 draft pick never fully developed offensively. Extremely efficient finisher and excellent mid range for a big - but he chose to leave it at that.

I'd argue he spent more time in the off-season playing video games than working on his handles, 3pt shot, footwork, etc. Did we ever hear him hanging with or going to one of the vaunted big man camps in the summer to improve? Nope.

Those same ball dominant guards/wings also set the table for what he did do well. With no handles, often poor hands, and unwillingness to back guys down his numbers would be different without them as the legend of "Dominayton" existed only in his head.

This wasn't some situation where the coaching staff was just like "We've got this unstoppable offensive force - let's just purposely never take advantage."

Every game Ayton has played without Booker and/or Paul refutes what you just spouted.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2023/1/1/23532574/a-booker-less-phoenix-suns-team-should-result-higher-ayton-production-potential-all-star-selection

You can't pass the ball to yourself. Dude checked out when Monty refused to change his offense, which sucked and resulted in this team losing in the post-season.

But keep crying my man, I'm sure this obsession you have with Ayton's mental state and many sins will take you far in life.

[enigmatics]

Ayton was told to focus on defense and efficiency for 3+ years, and he was pretty damn serviceable at those things. Monty's system and our ball dominant guards wanted to take their shots, and they did. We lost when it mattered.

They had ball "dominant" guards and wings because their former #1 draft pick never fully developed offensively. Extremely efficient finisher and excellent mid range for a big - but he chose to leave it at that.

I'd argue he spent more time in the off-season playing video games than working on his handles, 3pt shot, footwork, etc. Did we ever hear him hanging with or going to one of the vaunted big man camps in the summer to improve? Nope.

Those same ball dominant guards/wings also set the table for what he did do well. With no handles, often poor hands, and unwillingness to back guys down his numbers would be different without them as the legend of "Dominayton" existed only in his head.

This wasn't some situation where the coaching staff was just like "We've got this unstoppable offensive force - let's just purposely never take advantage."

Every game Ayton has played without Booker and/or Paul refutes what you just spouted.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2023/1/1/23532574/a-booker-less-phoenix-suns-team-should-result-higher-ayton-production-potential-all-star-selection

You can't pass the ball to yourself. Dude checked out when Monty refused to change his offense, which sucked and resulted in this team losing in the post-season.

But keep crying my man, I'm sure this obsession you have with Ayton's mental state and many sins will take you far in life.

No crying needed. It's reality and why he ain't a Sun no more.

Good to see the legend of Aytoneers is still thriving though.

[SunsRback4Good]

Let’s Go D-Dacks! BEAT LA!!! BEAT LA!!!!

[SunsRback4Good]

Ayton was told to focus on defense and efficiency for 3+ years, and he was pretty damn serviceable at those things. Monty's system and our ball dominant guards wanted to take their shots, and they did. We lost when it mattered.

They had ball "dominant" guards and wings because their former #1 draft pick never fully developed offensively. Extremely efficient finisher and excellent mid range for a big - but he chose to leave it at that.

I'd argue he spent more time in the off-season playing video games than working on his handles, 3pt shot, footwork, etc. Did we ever hear him hanging with or going to one of the vaunted big man camps in the summer to improve? Nope.

Those same ball dominant guards/wings also set the table for what he did do well. With no handles, often poor hands, and unwillingness to back guys down his numbers would be different without them as the legend of "Dominayton" existed only in his head.

This wasn't some situation where the coaching staff was just like "We've got this unstoppable offensive force - let's just purposely never take advantage."

Every game Ayton has played without Booker and/or Paul refutes what you just spouted.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2023/1/1/23532574/a-booker-less-phoenix-suns-team-should-result-higher-ayton-production-potential-all-star-selection

You can't pass the ball to yourself. Dude checked out when Monty refused to change his offense, which sucked and resulted in this team losing in the post-season.

But keep crying my man, I'm sure this obsession you have with Ayton's mental state and many sins will take you far in life.

No offense, but dude seems to usually check out in big moments beside the Crowder’s perfect alley oop pass. Ayton cares more about his perfect shooting than winning. He had many opportunities over the years to work on his inside game like creating his own shots or being a better rebounder, but chose to be a better shooter and that’s about it. A max contract player needs to adapt and learn new things and he hasn’t proved that.

[suns12345]

He may not have played for us this year, but dang it’s gonna sting if he’s a really strong role player

https://x.com/scooperhoops/status/1709718382273061274

I liked Toumani. Was sad to see him included. But guys like him are cannon fodder in these trades - you dond't let them get in the way of the bigger picture.

Hopefully it doesn't come back to bite us, and hopefully we didn't throw him in for no reason haha

[lilfishi22]

This team barely has any two man combinations who have ever played together. Who the hell knows how they will look.

I like the roster construction though so I'm hopeful it comes together. But I expect some early pains as they figure lineups who work together.

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For reference, we were 8-8 in the early part of the first season integrating CP3. I would not be surprised if we have a shakey record to start the season with a brand new team around Book and a whole new system/head coach

Yeah it'll take some time but the expectation is with this particular group of vets (Book, KD, Beal) it shouldn't be concerningly long.

Year 1 of the Heatles got to a 9-8 record before rolling into a 12 game win streak. Every team, whether vet or not, needs an adjustment period. Just want to put that out there before someone screams bloody murder or that we should've kept DA because we're 7-8 to start to season.

If we're barely a few games above .500 by Xmas, then I'd be worried

[lilfishi22]

So wait Gambo is conflicting DA's story about the Suns honoring his trade wishes?

This kid Deandre man smh. So insecure.

Or it could be misinterpretation of DA's words when he said we accommodated his wishes. Requesting a trade is a pretty big thing and it's not in DA's, ours or anyone's interest for an official trade demand to go public so this looks like Gambo clarifying that there was no official request. Clearly DA wanted to move on and we certainly were motivated to go into the season without any distractions like this, so we accommodated his wishes while we got what we wanted.

[bwoolf2]

For reference, we were 8-8 in the early part of the first season integrating CP3. I would not be surprised if we have a shakey record to start the season with a brand new team around Book and a whole new system/head coach

Yeah it'll take some time but the expectation is with this particular group of vets (Book, KD, Beal) it shouldn't be concerningly long.

Year 1 of the Heatles got to a 9-8 record before rolling into a 12 game win streak. Every team, whether vet or not, needs an adjustment period. Just want to put that out there before someone screams bloody murder or that we should've kept DA because we're 7-8 to start to season.

If we're barely a few games above .500 by Xmas, then I'd be worried

In the West this year there is no time for a slow start every team outside of Portland and San Antonio is competing for a spot and those 2 might not be awful its going to be brutal just making the playoffs, I think Houston takes a huge jump and makes it this year. If we are around .500 by Xmas team is in trouble.