Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

[Rapaz]

I’m about to put my square peg in Daryl Morey’s round hole.

GrandPat always gets the whale.

[Wiltside]

While the most id personally do is Lowry and a protected first, I could understand including Caleb. We aren’t going to be able to afford him after next season in most likelihood, so if we feel Harden > Caleb and Kyle for a year, I can’t argue really.

[Wiltside]

I’m about to put my square peg in Daryl Morey’s round hole.

GrandPat always gets the whale.

Timing as impeccable as always, Rapaz

[MorbidHEAT]

Is there actually any legitimate reports of Heat interest? I just can’t see it.

[MiamiLoyal926]

I’m about to put my square peg in Daryl Morey’s round hole.

GrandPat always gets the whale.

Timing as impeccable as always, Rapaz

Rapaz is on fire this summer!

[VaDe255]

While I see his on court offensive fit… we all know his off court issues and even his pattern of asking out at every turn is definitely a red flag.

- He wanted to win when he asked out of Houston, just like Dame did.
- Nets were a mess and he was unhappy that Irving was skipping a ton of games because of the vaccination and he had to play with nobodies alone
- Took less money on the 76ers so they could sign Tucker and when time came for his new deal 76ers never approached him, he opted in so he can be traded, but instead they didn't

It looks bad that he asked out 3 times, but I can understand why he did it. I doubt it is an issues, if he finds himself in a good situation he won't ask out again.

The biggest red flag is his inability to perform when we would need him the most… the playoffs.

His playoff numbers are absolutely fine, they only drop a little (which happens to most players anyway). He won the 76ers 2 games with huge performances last year vs the Celtics. Also that is why Jimmy is here. This narrative is overblown and maybe only exists, because ppl have way too high expectation of him.

So if you put the harden situation on a balance scale, I would say he is leaning more towards not being a fit than fitting in.

The difference between Lillard and Harden isn't even that big. You put Harden on that Blazers team last year, he averages the same numbers as Dame. Harden is also a better defender when he actually gives a damn, because he is much bigger than Dame.

I don't think it's happening, because 76ers don't want to just give him to us cheaply and our FO probably has some reservations about his work ethic, but if you put all this aside he would fit just the same as Dame did.

[Vertical Limit]

Is there actually any legitimate reports of Heat interest? I just can’t see it.

Not at the moment no. First, youre asking a sixers contender to trade a former MVP to the defending east champs.. theyre not going to do us any more favors after Jimmy Butler.

Second, theyll likely net at least 2 firsts for him.

Third, he wants a max extension.

Id like him for lowry, a protected first and maybe a swap. And filler contract.. that wont be enough. And i dont think we should pay more than that. But im not a gm.

I also dont think the heat have any interest in extending him. They see harden on his last legs

[MiamiLoyal926]

While I see his on court offensive fit… we all know his off court issues and even his pattern of asking out at every turn is definitely a red flag.

- He wanted to win when he asked out of Houston, just like Dame did.
- Nets were a mess and he was unhappy that Irving was skipping a ton of games because of the vaccination and he had to play with nobodies alone
- Took less money on the 76ers so they could sign Tucker and when time came for his new deal 76ers never approached him, he opted in so he can be traded, but instead they didn't

It looks bad that he asked out 3 times, but I can understand why he did it. I doubt it is an issues, if he finds himself in a good situation he won't ask out again.

The biggest red flag is his inability to perform when we would need him the most… the playoffs.

His playoff numbers are absolutely fine, they only drop a little (which happens to most players anyway). He won the 76ers 2 games with huge performances last year vs the Celtics. Also that is why Jimmy is here. This narrative is overblown and maybe only exists, because ppl have way too high expectation of him.

So if you put the harden situation on a balance scale, I would say he is leaning more towards not being a fit than fitting in.

The difference between Lillard and Harden isn't even that big. You put Harden on that Blazers team last year, he averages the same numbers as Dame. Harden is also a better defender when he actually gives a damn, because he is much bigger than Dame.

I don't think it's happening, because 76ers don't want to just give him to us cheaply and our FO probably has some reservations about his work ethic, but if you put all this aside he would fit just the same as Dame did.

A Harden bought into the Heat way would be scary to watch. I also imagine Spo would play him a bit different than what we are used to seeing out of Harden as Spo has gravitated more towards team ball post Lebron’s pound the ball style.

I just don’t see the Heat looking to overpay and the Sixers looking to help a conference rival, especially by allowing us to underpay.

I say it’s safe to move on from this story line and enjoy our current squad and if we get surprised with a trade, then marvelous!

[wade44]

I personally think Hadrden is a flawless fit into this team offensively. He would help other players individual games immensely. It’d be lob city and easy baskets for Bam all day. Tyler and Jimmy would be able to play off ball more. That said I doubt we deal we deal for him. He’s a high risk guy not unlike Kyrie and we saw how Mickey handled that when Kyrie was somewhat available

[dean456]

If you want a shot at a championship, adding Harden would help those chances. To me, not to want Harden with him cheap because of the situation in Philly and with him being a FA means winning championships are not your #1 priority.

Last year Harden played the role of a distributor instead of a scorer and led the league in assists and had a TS% over 60%. His biggest negative is that he disappears in big games which is fine because you also would have Butler and quite possibly Herro still. Good lord you have a shot of a starting lineup with Harden, Herro, Butler, Love/Jovic and Bam with Richardson, Javez, D.Robinson, O.Robinson, Highsmith and RJ Hampton coming off the bench... but why do that when it's possibly going to cost C.Martin, Lowry, 2 late 1st round picks and a couple of 2nds?

There's a high probability that Miami could retain Harden for 2-3 more years at a reasonable salary since there might be little to no market for him.

Just imagine the ability to get teams in foul trouble with Butler and Harden together.

We're just a few months away from Harden having some great games in the playoffs.

Watch on YouTube

I just think this is short sighted. There's zero chance Harden is signing for less than 30mil per next season. I think it's unlikely we would re-sign Harden at that number without shedding more salary. That alone makes me think Miami won't make that trade.

Who's offering him money? Just the teams that have the potential (letting players walk) to have enough to offer him probably aren't interested.
Detroit?
Philly?
Orlando?
Washington?
Toronto? <- Maybe Toronto?
OKC?
SA?
Indy?
Houston?
Charlotte?
Brooklyn?
Everyone else is under 20 mil and that's 4 teams.
Chicago at 19 mil
GS at 11
NY 9
Sac 7

WHO IS OFFERING HIM 25+ mil a year?

If you have his Bird rights you have a shot at signing him for nowhere near the max. I guess he could go to China.

I would assume that whoever he is traded to would have an agreement in place of the number they would re-sign him at otherwise he likely wouldn't want to be traded there. Probably why LACs and Miami are the rumoured two teams showing interest. But for Miami to do it it would have to be for the right price.[streamable][/streamable]

My guess is he'd be looking at a similar deal to what Lowry got at 35yo 3yr 85mil so roughly starting at 27mil.

My guess is Miami would only be interested in this deal if they got him for a similar price they did for Lowry at the time.

I think what's most likely is Harden starts the year in PHI and teams revisit it at the trade deadline. I don't believe either LACs or MIA want to trade multiple FRPs for Harden and they both know Harden's going to make that situation unbareable for PHI and the pressure to move him will increase at that stage.

At that point we'll have Love, Bryant, Richardson, Robinson, Hampton and Cain who will all be eligible to be traded as well and we'd also know what pieces could be more vital to our success or could be expendable and not be forced to trade Martin/Jovic/Jaquez to match salaries.

[dean456]

While I see his on court offensive fit… we all know his off court issues and even his pattern of asking out at every turn is definitely a red flag.

- He wanted to win when he asked out of Houston, just like Dame did.
- Nets were a mess and he was unhappy that Irving was skipping a ton of games because of the vaccination and he had to play with nobodies alone
- Took less money on the 76ers so they could sign Tucker and when time came for his new deal 76ers never approached him, he opted in so he can be traded, but instead they didn't

It looks bad that he asked out 3 times, but I can understand why he did it. I doubt it is an issues, if he finds himself in a good situation he won't ask out again.

The biggest red flag is his inability to perform when we would need him the most… the playoffs.

His playoff numbers are absolutely fine, they only drop a little (which happens to most players anyway). He won the 76ers 2 games with huge performances last year vs the Celtics. Also that is why Jimmy is here. This narrative is overblown and maybe only exists, because ppl have way too high expectation of him.

So if you put the harden situation on a balance scale, I would say he is leaning more towards not being a fit than fitting in.

The difference between Lillard and Harden isn't even that big. You put Harden on that Blazers team last year, he averages the same numbers as Dame. Harden is also a better defender when he actually gives a damn, because he is much bigger than Dame.

I don't think it's happening, because 76ers don't want to just give him to us cheaply and our FO probably has some reservations about his work ethic, but if you put all this aside he would fit just the same as Dame did.

A Harden bought into the Heat way would be scary to watch. I also imagine Spo would play him a bit different than what we are used to seeing out of Harden as Spo has gravitated more towards team ball post Lebron’s pound the ball style.

I just don’t see the Heat looking to overpay and the Sixers looking to help a conference rival, especially by allowing us to underpay.

I say it’s safe to move on from this story line and enjoy our current squad and if we get surprised with a trade, then marvelous!

I agree, I also think Harden is beyond moulding into a different offensive player at this point. He's either going to be a heavy PnR player with a focus on finding open shooters or a heavy PnR player focused on taking his own shots either way he's going to be pounding ball.

We already have this problem with Herro where the ball gets stuck with him and doesn't find the best option. I believe that's why the team shot better once he got injured in the playoffs. Difference is Herro's 23yo and able to grow out of those habits. Harden is 34yo and is set in his ways at this point.

At this point Harden just wants to be wherever he can make the most money in his final contract.

[AirP.]

I just think this is short sighted. There's zero chance Harden is signing for less than 30mil per next season. I think it's unlikely we would re-sign Harden at that number without shedding more salary. That alone makes me think Miami won't make that trade.

Who's offering him money? Just the teams that have the potential (letting players walk) to have enough to offer him probably aren't interested.
Detroit?
Philly?
Orlando?
Washington?
Toronto? <- Maybe Toronto?
OKC?
SA?
Indy?
Houston?
Charlotte?
Brooklyn?
Everyone else is under 20 mil and that's 4 teams.
Chicago at 19 mil
GS at 11
NY 9
Sac 7

WHO IS OFFERING HIM 25+ mil a year?

If you have his Bird rights you have a shot at signing him for nowhere near the max. I guess he could go to China.

I would assume that whoever he is traded to would have an agreement in place of the number they would re-sign him at otherwise he likely wouldn't want to be traded there. Probably why LACs and Miami are the rumoured two teams showing interest. But for Miami to do it it would have to be for the right price.[streamable][/streamable]

My guess is he'd be looking at a similar deal to what Lowry got at 35yo 3yr 85mil so roughly starting at 27mil.

My guess is Miami would only be interested in this deal if they got him for a similar price they did for Lowry at the time.

I think what's most likely is Harden starts the year in PHI and teams revisit it at the trade deadline. I don't believe either LACs or MIA want to trade multiple FRPs for Harden and they both know Harden's going to make that situation unbareable for PHI and the pressure to move him will increase at that stage.

At that point we'll have Love, Bryant, Richardson, Robinson, Hampton and Cain who will all be eligible to be traded as well and we'd also know what pieces could be more vital to our success or could be expendable and not be forced to trade Martin/Jovic/Jaquez to match salaries.

Which is why I said earlier... Harden and Tucker for Lowry and Robinson, 1 or 2 1st maybe a 2nd or 2. I don't mind moving Martin because I think he's not going to be all that much better then they younger guys, the younger guys just need experience and to get Spo to trust them.

[dean456]

Who's offering him money? Just the teams that have the potential (letting players walk) to have enough to offer him probably aren't interested.
Detroit?
Philly?
Orlando?
Washington?
Toronto? <- Maybe Toronto?
OKC?
SA?
Indy?
Houston?
Charlotte?
Brooklyn?
Everyone else is under 20 mil and that's 4 teams.
Chicago at 19 mil
GS at 11
NY 9
Sac 7

WHO IS OFFERING HIM 25+ mil a year?

If you have his Bird rights you have a shot at signing him for nowhere near the max. I guess he could go to China.

I would assume that whoever he is traded to would have an agreement in place of the number they would re-sign him at otherwise he likely wouldn't want to be traded there. Probably why LACs and Miami are the rumoured two teams showing interest. But for Miami to do it it would have to be for the right price.[streamable][/streamable]

My guess is he'd be looking at a similar deal to what Lowry got at 35yo 3yr 85mil so roughly starting at 27mil.

My guess is Miami would only be interested in this deal if they got him for a similar price they did for Lowry at the time.

I think what's most likely is Harden starts the year in PHI and teams revisit it at the trade deadline. I don't believe either LACs or MIA want to trade multiple FRPs for Harden and they both know Harden's going to make that situation unbareable for PHI and the pressure to move him will increase at that stage.

At that point we'll have Love, Bryant, Richardson, Robinson, Hampton and Cain who will all be eligible to be traded as well and we'd also know what pieces could be more vital to our success or could be expendable and not be forced to trade Martin/Jovic/Jaquez to match salaries.

Which is why I said earlier... Harden and Tucker for Lowry and Robinson, 1 or 2 1st maybe a 2nd or 2. I don't mind moving Martin because I think he's not going to be all that much better then they younger guys, the younger guys just need experience and to get Spo to trust them.

I don't mind moving Martin, I think you are right, I think what he did in the ECFs was an anomaly and won't be replicated or built on long term and he'll basically be the same serviceable guy we had last season. If Highsmith and Cain have developed at all they can step into a similar role and even JRich can provide what he could until the rookies are up to speed.

It's more so the picks that worry me. The team is going to need those picks otherwise we are going to be stuck in this limbo of not having enough to win and not having the assets to trade for someone that can get us there.

I really don't want to waste Bam's prime the way Jimmy's has been wasted by not being able to make the moves to get guys here. Bam's going to have a ton of guys that want to play with him in his prime and it would be silly to waste that on 1yr of Harden when it's pretty good odds that he's not going to be the guy to get us a championship.

[zgope1]

Although it is tempting to swap Lowry for harden it is winning a small battle to lose sight of the war.

Giving Philly our picks would put them ahead of us when a real difference maker comes along. That’s how Morey rolls. We can’t get suckered in.

We need to put our heads down as an org, make Herro, JJJ and Jovic increase in value and make a meaningful move possibly with the Lowry expiring before the deadline, if not, later even. Harden is a move for mediocrity

[Dmcdani6]

Why would Miami do this? Harden is good, I agree. But, hes lazy, doesn’t try to defend, and hes a headache.

I can be wrong, but this isnt a good trade to me. Never a huge Harden fan, but 1st time H-town days he was unstoppable. He was in shape back then.

[3ballbomber]

From all the useless Dillard talk...to pivoting to Harden

[twix2500]

IMO the best time to trade Lowry is at the trade deadline when a team knows they are out of the playoff race and willing to sale players for salary cap relief

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[AirP.]

I don't mind moving Martin, I think you are right, I think what he did in the ECFs was an anomaly and won't be replicated or built on long term and he'll basically be the same serviceable guy we had last season. If Highsmith and Cain have developed at all they can step into a similar role and even JRich can provide what he could until the rookies are up to speed.

It's more so the picks that worry me. The team is going to need those picks otherwise we are going to be stuck in this limbo of not having enough to win and not having the assets to trade for someone that can get us there.

I really don't want to waste Bam's prime the way Jimmy's has been wasted by not being able to make the moves to get guys here. Bam's going to have a ton of guys that want to play with him in his prime and it would be silly to waste that on 1yr of Harden when it's pretty good odds that he's not going to be the guy to get us a championship.

Are they going to "need' those picks, I don't really think late 1sts are all that valuable unless you're drafting a project that takes time which is what Miami did with Jovic and Jaquez Jr was drafted right outside of the lottery.

So moving forward with Bam who's now 26, meaning 4 years from now... 30 (time flies) and it's possible to have a core of Bam, Herro, Jovic, and Jaquez, that's 4 of your 7-8 man rotation for the next 8 or so years. Develop a couple of rotation guys, hopefully time things where you can add another big salary player right after Butler and Harden's salaries come off the books and this team stays competitive.

I love the idea of getting proven players with draft picks, you keep your team good and have very few bad drafts which Precious was heading that way for Miami.

[dean456]

I don't mind moving Martin, I think you are right, I think what he did in the ECFs was an anomaly and won't be replicated or built on long term and he'll basically be the same serviceable guy we had last season. If Highsmith and Cain have developed at all they can step into a similar role and even JRich can provide what he could until the rookies are up to speed.

It's more so the picks that worry me. The team is going to need those picks otherwise we are going to be stuck in this limbo of not having enough to win and not having the assets to trade for someone that can get us there.

I really don't want to waste Bam's prime the way Jimmy's has been wasted by not being able to make the moves to get guys here. Bam's going to have a ton of guys that want to play with him in his prime and it would be silly to waste that on 1yr of Harden when it's pretty good odds that he's not going to be the guy to get us a championship.

Are they going to "need' those picks, I don't really think late 1sts are all that valuable unless you're drafting a project that takes time which is what Miami did with Jovic and Jaquez Jr was drafted right outside of the lottery.

So moving forward with Bam who's now 26, meaning 4 years from now... 30 (time flies) and it's possible to have a core of Bam, Herro, Jovic, and Jaquez, that's 4 of your 7-8 man rotation for the next 8 or so years. Develop a couple of rotation guys, hopefully time things where you can add another big salary player right after Butler and Harden's salaries come off the books and this team stays competitive.

I love the idea of getting proven players with draft picks, you keep your team good and have very few bad drafts which Precious was heading that way for Miami.

We are just not going to be able to sign anyone in FA because every top player signs their extensions ahead of time now. Only way we getting those top level guys is if we trade for them.

Edwards, Fox, Tatum, Luka and Shai. These are the targets out there that we would be looking at through the Bam prime years. We are not going to get any of those players in FA, our only chance would be through trade and we are only doing that if we hold our picks now.

[iamoti]

Harden means you either use him as a 6th man or you move Tyler to the bench. I dont see any of those 2 things happening.