Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Crowder Out 8 Weeks

[Daver]

Pat’s presser today had something interesting in it. He mentioned he liked the offball movement Stotts has them doing. He likes the freedom to crash the glass and move around off ball instead of “being stuck in a box”.

The last part certainly seems to be a reference to Bud’s system and his known practice method of having taped squares on the floor and players required to stand in those when off ball.

TBH would love to know off the record how many bucks vet players really liked buds O and D system.If feels to me that there were alot of unhappy players with both schemes

[greekbuck34]

Jrue is a great defender, but even a couple of years ago for us, he wasn't the perfect defender. He would often get cooked by those quick guards with range, like Trae, or anybody with more length.

That was mostly because of our system and Bud's insane deep drop defense for 2 and 3 full quarters in a row against hot players. Jrue, Wes, Carter and the others had to beat every screen and guard those players without help for +30 minutes of the game and we would make zero adjustments even while they were making 6-7 pullup jumpshots in a row. For that assignment Jrue was not perfect but he was by far the best in the league because he is an expert in getting by screens and in 1v1 defense.

[drdrG]

Jrue is a great defender, but even a couple of years ago for us, he wasn't the perfect defender. He would often get cooked by those quick guards with range, like Trae, or anybody with more length.

That was mostly because of our system and Bud's insane deep drop defense for 2 and 3 full quarters in a row against hot players. Jrue, Wes, Carter and the others had to beat every screen and guard those players without help for +30 minutes of the game and we would make zero adjustments even while they were making 6-7 pullup jumpshots in a row. For that assignment Jrue was not perfect but he was by far the best in the league because he is an expert in getting by screens and in 1v1 defense.

While a lot of analytics supported the system, my biggest problem with it was that it required our offensive players to create and figure it out while our opponents offensive plan was obvious. I think it led to confidence and performance above expectation for our opponents (see Jimmy Butler) and often the opposite for us (see our playoff shooting).

[KidA24]

Pat’s presser today had something interesting in it. He mentioned he liked the offball movement Stotts has them doing. He likes the freedom to crash the glass and move around off ball instead of “being stuck in a box”.

The last part certainly seems to be a reference to Bud’s system and his known practice method of having taped squares on the floor and players required to stand in those when off ball.

It's also something Giannis has requested because he has no court sense.

Expect his turnovers to go way, way up this season.

[nagawicka]

For those who feel the need to continue to crap on Jrue, at what point do you think you’ll be able to let it go?

Who is crapping on him? Pointing out how terrible he was offensively in the playoffs was something plenty of us were doing when he still played for the Bucks.

When G misses more free throws than our margin of defeat, you don't get to crap on Jrue. Not while asking Finals-level shutdown D AND 36ppg AND while not demanding G not 'play' point guard, let alone play team ball. ffs

[nagawicka]

Giannis saying he’ll set 50 screens for Dame if need be was the most encouraging thing said all preseason.

Why start now?

[nagawicka]

Dawg, this Giannis interview is basically basketball porn for Bucks fans.

I know Giannis didn't mean to but it was also a slight jab to Jrue and his playmaking skills. The way Giannis talks about Dame is like it's the first time he is playing with an actual elite PG on his squad which is true ofc.

How would he know? Can't find out when G incorrectly assumes he can run point. And if he DID find that out, it's no excuse for attempting unsuccessfully to play out- of position.

[drdrG]

Giannis saying he’ll set 50 screens for Dame if need be was the most encouraging thing said all preseason.

Why start now?

Obviously Giannis has big warts offensively. This will be the first time he plays with someone who he will defer to on offense. Dame will be by far the best PnR player he's played with and Stotts/Griffin are directing the offense rather than Bud.

You come across as very negative on a guy who has resurrected basketball in Milwaukee

[Shaffty]

Giannis saying he’ll set 50 screens for Dame if need be was the most encouraging thing said all preseason.

Why start now?

because he has an actual ball handler now

[drdrG]

Dawg, this Giannis interview is basically basketball porn for Bucks fans.

I know Giannis didn't mean to but it was also a slight jab to Jrue and his playmaking skills. The way Giannis talks about Dame is like it's the first time he is playing with an actual elite PG on his squad which is true ofc.

How would he know? Can't find out when G incorrectly assumes he can run point. And if he DID find that out, it's no excuse for attempting unsuccessfully to play out- of position.

He's won 2 MVPs playing that style. Not hard to understand why he defaults to that when Middleton plays 30 games and Holiday shoots at Bledsoe levels. He was able to trust Middleton enough to win a championship - I'm bullish on him doing that with Dame and a healthy Middleton on offense this year too

[ShootingtheJ]

Dawg, this Giannis interview is basically basketball porn for Bucks fans.

I know Giannis didn't mean to but it was also a slight jab to Jrue and his playmaking skills. The way Giannis talks about Dame is like it's the first time he is playing with an actual elite PG on his squad which is true ofc.

How would he know? Can't find out when G incorrectly assumes he can run point. And if he DID find that out, it's no excuse for attempting unsuccessfully to play out- of position.

Do you have any stats to back up your assertion? Does our offensive rating crater when Giannis brings the ball up?

The only negative is that his teammates aren't good enough shooters, and Giannis picks up offensive fouls

[soxperry]

I know Giannis didn't mean to but it was also a slight jab to Jrue and his playmaking skills. The way Giannis talks about Dame is like it's the first time he is playing with an actual elite PG on his squad which is true ofc.

How would he know? Can't find out when G incorrectly assumes he can run point. And if he DID find that out, it's no excuse for attempting unsuccessfully to play out- of position.

Do you have any stats to back up your assertion? Does our offensive rating crater when Giannis brings the ball up?

The only negative is that his teammates aren't good enough shooters, and Giannis picks up offensive fouls

well there's also the fact that it puts more wear and tear on him. he's great at beating his man and getting points but it comes at quite a cost. i dont think people talk about it much but Giannis has had significant injuries in almost every single playoffs going back to the bubble vs. the heat. he missed time in that series, he had the knee the title year, the following year he was healthy, and last year he had the big fall and resulting back issues. if he's taking a different approach, it's not just about Dame, it's about him playing smarter instead of harder (in some ways). Dame does allow him to do that, but he referenced him taking a back seat at times to Khris in the Finals when Khris was cooking. Giannis isn't going to do that unless there's a good reason to, though, and Khris hasn't looked like that guy since. Enter Dame.

Anyway.. life is good guys.. dont look a gift horse in the mouth.

[ShootingtheJ]

How would he know? Can't find out when G incorrectly assumes he can run point. And if he DID find that out, it's no excuse for attempting unsuccessfully to play out- of position.

Do you have any stats to back up your assertion? Does our offensive rating crater when Giannis brings the ball up?

The only negative is that his teammates aren't good enough shooters, and Giannis picks up offensive fouls

well there's also the fact that it puts more wear and tear on him. he's great at beating his man and getting points but it comes at quite a cost. i dont think people talk about it much but Giannis has had significant injuries in almost every single playoffs going back to the bubble vs. the heat. he missed time in that series, he had the knee the title year, the following year he was healthy, and last year he had the big fall and resulting back issues. if he's taking a different approach, it's not just about Dame, it's about him playing smarter instead of harder (in some ways). Dame does allow him to do that, but he referenced him taking a back seat at times to Khris in the Finals when Khris was cooking. Giannis isn't going to do that unless there's a good reason to, though, and Khris hasn't looked like that guy since. Enter Dame.

Anyway.. life is good guys.. dont look a gift horse in the mouth.

True, but didn't 2 of the injuries happen playing defense?

[soxperry]

Do you have any stats to back up your assertion? Does our offensive rating crater when Giannis brings the ball up?

The only negative is that his teammates aren't good enough shooters, and Giannis picks up offensive fouls

well there's also the fact that it puts more wear and tear on him. he's great at beating his man and getting points but it comes at quite a cost. i dont think people talk about it much but Giannis has had significant injuries in almost every single playoffs going back to the bubble vs. the heat. he missed time in that series, he had the knee the title year, the following year he was healthy, and last year he had the big fall and resulting back issues. if he's taking a different approach, it's not just about Dame, it's about him playing smarter instead of harder (in some ways). Dame does allow him to do that, but he referenced him taking a back seat at times to Khris in the Finals when Khris was cooking. Giannis isn't going to do that unless there's a good reason to, though, and Khris hasn't looked like that guy since. Enter Dame.

Anyway.. life is good guys.. dont look a gift horse in the mouth.

True, but didn't 2 of the injuries happen playing defense?

perhaps, but to me it's a numbers game. the less wear and tear the better.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, after each of the last two Miami series losses (2020 and 2023), a lot of people started to push this weird narrative that we should turn Giannis into a glorified screen setter/rim-runner ala old Celtics KG or a rich man's Deandre Jordan. Like it was gonna be some 4D Chess move to have *checks notes* Spencer Dinwiddie or Fred Van Vleet take the ball out of his hands for the betterment of the offense. Now, with someone like Dame or CP3? Yeah, that's a completely different story. Those guys are high level offensive fulcrums that actually warrant taking the ball out of your best players' hands.

[MickeyDavis]

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[emunney]

Bud's greatest strength was his vision in identifying and executing his idealized versions of Team Giannis. His greatest weakness was how predictable his fealty to that vision made his team.

[raferfenix]

Like it was gonna be some 4D Chess move to have *checks notes* Spencer Dinwiddie or Fred Van Vleet take the ball out of his hands for the betterment of the offense.

Am curious how close we really were to a non-Dame trade.

Shams sure made it seem like we wanted FVV at the deadline. Less sure that I believe Bojan was a serious target.

Lot of Bradley Beal smoke this offseason too.

[Ron Swanson]

Like it was gonna be some 4D Chess move to have *checks notes* Spencer Dinwiddie or Fred Van Vleet take the ball out of his hands for the betterment of the offense.

Am curious how close we really were to a non-Dame trade.

Shams sure made it seem like we wanted FVV at the deadline. Less sure that I believe Bojan was a serious target.

Lot of Bradley Beal smoke this offseason too.

I think they'd have probably done the Beal trade if they could. Thankfully for us, he clearly wanted to go to Phoenix, and the no-trade clause helped make that happen.

[Turk Nowitzki]

Like it was gonna be some 4D Chess move to have *checks notes* Spencer Dinwiddie or Fred Van Vleet take the ball out of his hands for the betterment of the offense.

Am curious how close we really were to a non-Dame trade.

Shams sure made it seem like we wanted FVV at the deadline. Less sure that I believe Bojan was a serious target.

Lot of Bradley Beal smoke this offseason too.

If you trust Shaffty's info and I'm remembering correctly, he said we had the best offer on the table for FVV at the deadline and Masai decided not to trade him. So we can probably thank Masai for us getting Dame in the end.

Also an interesting thought (assuming we would've been able to resign FVV) is there any argument we would be better off with FVV/Jrue/Khris/Giannis/Brook over Dame/whoever/Khris/Giannis/Brook?