Who Should Be The 5th Starter?

[DutchManDanFan]

Voted Pat. He's the highest paid player in the list.

Very good argument

[-Jragon-]

Beasley ain't my first choice but way too many people are concerned about this non-existent problem of him "taking away shots from Dame/Giannis/Khris". He's basically a perfect fit offensively in the starting-5. Concerns are entirely and rightfully surrounding his defense, and how much theoretical improvement he can have there.

Between Beasely and Pat, I'd go Beasely too... Dame and Giannis just have to keep the ball between themselves and expect a shot as soon as they pass to the other 3... which actually isn't bad offense for us. When one of the other 3 (Beas, Khris, Brook) are open, hit them with a crisp pass and expect a shot (because their passing/dribbling isn't better for our team anyways)

[DutchManDanFan]

Its very cliche to say I don't care who starts, I care who finishes. But that is where I'm at. For the question itself, none of the guys are appreciably better than anyone else and so its who fits with the other 4 best and I'd probably go with Marjon or AJJ to have some athleticism to start and to see how those guys play being the 5th option. To finish games, I'd go with Pat or Crowder depending on the matchup.

The question can also be who plays most minutes with the other 4 starters. Most likely that's the one who starts and probably finishes as well.
Although most games the scrubs will be in at the end of games...

[LUKE23]

If you start Beasley or Green you are completely punting any and all backcourt/wing defense. I don't believe that is a winning strategy.

[DutchManDanFan]

If you start Beasley or Green you are completely punting any and all backcourt/wing defense. I don't believe that is a winning strategy.

Unless we outscore the opponents with easy with Dame & Giannis.

[Balls2TheWalls]

Beasley ain't my first choice but way too many people are concerned about this non-existent problem of him "taking away shots from Dame/Giannis/Khris". He's basically a perfect fit offensively in the starting-5. Concerns are entirely and rightfully surrounding his defense, and how much theoretical improvement he can have there.

100% this. If he wants to alienate himself from the roster, coaching staff, and fanbase, then he should take possessions from the stars, but those players would not let him do that. He may not show deference to the players he's on the court with in preseason, but he would for Dame/Giannis/Khris.

I think Pat/Marjon/Beasley all have pretty glaring weaknesses, but there is hope that all of them can shoot open corner 3s at a decent clip. I think that consistency of 3 point shooting has to be the deciding factor to playing with a "No Usage Available" first string.

[SupremeHustle]

The perfect fifth starter for us would have been Bruce Brown.

[ReasonablySober]

If you start Beasley or Green you are completely punting any and all backcourt/wing defense. I don't believe that is a winning strategy.

Unless we outscore the opponents with easy with Dame & Giannis.

I'm gonna bet the Bucks are +19 or higher with Dame, Khris, Giannis, and Brook on the floor this year.

[ShootingtheJ]

Beasley ain't my first choice but way too many people are concerned about this non-existent problem of him "taking away shots from Dame/Giannis/Khris". He's basically a perfect fit offensively in the starting-5. Concerns are entirely and rightfully surrounding his defense, and how much theoretical improvement he can have there.

It didn't work in LA when he didn't defend and constantly chucked despite playing with Lebron and AD, but I'm sure it'll fine here?

Beasley sucks.

[Prez]

Yeah, I don’t really buy the Beasley taking shots away stuff. If his shot craters then yeah but that’s more based on performance rather than style/approach. If he’s hitting a respectable %, I actually think his game would be lethal next to the other 4. We’re talking pretty absurd spacing around Giannis at that point.

The reason I wouldn’t start him is because of the defensive issues. You can’t have a 1-3 of Dame/Beasley/Khris defensively. Maaaaybe it’d be okay if Khris’ knee is 100% and he fully recommits on that end but even then probably not.

[Ron Swanson]

Beasley ain't my first choice but way too many people are concerned about this non-existent problem of him "taking away shots from Dame/Giannis/Khris". He's basically a perfect fit offensively in the starting-5. Concerns are entirely and rightfully surrounding his defense, and how much theoretical improvement he can have there.

It didn't work in LA when he didn't defend and constantly chucked despite playing with Lebron and AD, but I'm sure it'll fine here?

Beasley sucks.

Yes, you've made your position on Malik Beasley very clear.

[Balls2TheWalls]

Yeah, I don’t really buy the Beasley taking shots away stuff. If his shot craters then yeah but that’s more based on performance rather than style/approach. If he’s hitting a respectable %, I actually think his game would be lethal next to the other 4. We’re talking pretty absurd spacing around Giannis at that point.

The reason I wouldn’t start him is because of the defensive issues. You can’t have a 1-3 of Dame/Beasley/Khris defensively. Maaaaybe it’d be okay if Khris’ knee is 100% and he fully recommits on that end but even then probably not.

I think one of the best arguments for starting Beasley is that he would crater the ability for a 2nd unit to gel. That is a group he would *absolutely* take shots away from. Payne/Pat/Marjon/Bobby/Jae/AJJ are all guys that can play within the flow of an offense that has no primary usage holder. I am not certain that Beasley would stop himself from taking shots and good offense away from that group.

Defensively Marjon would be the best choice. It is clear that he is the most ready to body up a shooting guard. I think playing him with the starters probably stops him from blossoming as a shot creator, but allows him to hone his catch and shoot jumper with regular minutes.

[Dick Tate]

I wouldn't be surprised if AG experimented with a number of them over the first 20 games or so.

As far as the poll, i'll vote after seeing how some of these guys play with Dame and Giannis.

[H2tObes]

Pat should be the starter until one of Marjon/AJJ have looked to surpass him. Pat can stay in front of guards, a good shooter with a quick trigger, has the experience, and you always get the added bonus of him gobbling up offensive boards and making extra possessions with his hustle. I'll be slightly annoyed if it's Malik because it's so obvious to me that he is a bench guy who should be taking most of his shots when the offense is struggling without Dame, that's when he will be most effective.

Realistically I think only Malik/Pat have a chance for day 1 starter, end of season roll your dice and take a guess.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Yeah, I don’t really buy the Beasley taking shots away stuff. If his shot craters then yeah but that’s more based on performance rather than style/approach. If he’s hitting a respectable %, I actually think his game would be lethal next to the other 4. We’re talking pretty absurd spacing around Giannis at that point.

The reason I wouldn’t start him is because of the defensive issues. You can’t have a 1-3 of Dame/Beasley/Khris defensively. Maaaaybe it’d be okay if Khris’ knee is 100% and he fully recommits on that end but even then probably not.

to me i think if beasleys defense is so bad it tanks arguably the best starting lineup in this league since GSs peak then he should be immediately cut

[Ron Swanson]

If you start Beasley or Green you are completely punting any and all backcourt/wing defense. I don't believe that is a winning strategy.

Unless we outscore the opponents with easy with Dame & Giannis.

I'm gonna bet the Bucks are +19 or higher with Dame, Khris, Giannis, and Brook on the floor this year.

And this is pretty much why I ultimately won't care who starts. You could throw any replacement level dude at SG next to those 4 guys and they're still gonna run other lineups off the floor. The only question for me is if you're sitting here at the trade deadline and you still don't know between any of these guys who's actually a 16-game dude, do you use like, Bobby as a trade chip to go out and get that guy from another team.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

https://www.canishoopus.com/2022/5/25/23140592/2021-22-minnesota-timberwolves-season-review-malik-beasley

While Beasley’s shooting returning to his norm in the second half of the season was the big story, he really earned his minutes by coupling that shooting by playing improved team defense in Minnesota’s high-wall scheme. In many ways, it was the perfect fit for a player like Beasley. Beas isn’t necessarily an elite athlete, but he is a good one, and he played better in a scheme that relied a bit more on instinct and athleticism than being overly precise with rotations in the half-court.

As his offense improved, so did his defense. Beasley wasn’t an All-Defense candidate by any means, but he was genuinely competent on that end of the floor over the second-half of the season.

The question now becomes, can he repeat that? Can that be the norm? Can he improve upon that to eventually become a borderline asset on defense? He’s probably unlikely to ever be that good, but it was encouraging to see him take genuine strides on that end of the floor.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nba/bucks/2023/10/11/milwaukee-bucks-guard-malik-beasley-motivated-in-first-year-with-team/71125771007/

“I came here to also help my defense,” Beasley said matter-of-factly. “They make an impact on defense. Especially with (assistant) coach (Patrick) Mutombo, that’s his specialty. I heard coach (Adrian) Griffin, that’s what he likes, too. I want this to be a great year not just for me individually, but overall as a team and building my value more than just a three-point shooter.”

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/malik-beasley-knows-he-doesnt/

For a 6-4 wing, Beasley’s actually a pretty decent rebounder, at least on the defensive end. With Rudy Gobert gone this season, rebounding will likely need to be a 5-man effort.

Defensively, Beasley makes little statistical impact on the game right now: even when you compare him just among players of his size, he gets fewer blocks or steals than nearly everyone else. He also gets fewer fouls than nearly anybody else — obviously, fouling is a bad thing, but sometimes they just are a consequence of defensive effort.

The individual play metrics are kinder than the scouting report on Beasley: for example, he allows just 0.78 points per possession on isolation plays, but there were times when opposing offenses felt comfortable attacking him last year. By his own account, he started last season quite slowly on the defensive end, before improving late in the year.

“It’s the care factor,” Beasley told the Star-Tribune. “Beginning of the season, I was just trying to get back in shape, get my rhythm, find a rhythm. But now I’m focused on winning the game, whether that’s rebounding, making shots or defending. In the playoffs, it’s iso-basketball. They always go for the mismatch and things like that. I don’t want to be that guy.”

Beasley’s even set the goal to make an All-Defense team in the future — he’s not close right now, but he believes it can be possible with more of that trademark worth ethic.

i think were being overzealous with our beasley sucks on defense takes. where is this coming from? why does griffin think he can be competent and we as fans dont?

[MVP2110]

https://www.canishoopus.com/2022/5/25/23140592/2021-22-minnesota-timberwolves-season-review-malik-beasley

While Beasley’s shooting returning to his norm in the second half of the season was the big story, he really earned his minutes by coupling that shooting by playing improved team defense in Minnesota’s high-wall scheme. In many ways, it was the perfect fit for a player like Beasley. Beas isn’t necessarily an elite athlete, but he is a good one, and he played better in a scheme that relied a bit more on instinct and athleticism than being overly precise with rotations in the half-court.

As his offense improved, so did his defense. Beasley wasn’t an All-Defense candidate by any means, but he was genuinely competent on that end of the floor over the second-half of the season.

The question now becomes, can he repeat that? Can that be the norm? Can he improve upon that to eventually become a borderline asset on defense? He’s probably unlikely to ever be that good, but it was encouraging to see him take genuine strides on that end of the floor.

This article was 2.5 years ago now, I think we mostly know the answer to the bolded part to be no. I guess there is a small chance for it to change and for him to become a real asset defensively but I won't hold my breath

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

https://www.canishoopus.com/2022/5/25/23140592/2021-22-minnesota-timberwolves-season-review-malik-beasley

While Beasley’s shooting returning to his norm in the second half of the season was the big story, he really earned his minutes by coupling that shooting by playing improved team defense in Minnesota’s high-wall scheme. In many ways, it was the perfect fit for a player like Beasley. Beas isn’t necessarily an elite athlete, but he is a good one, and he played better in a scheme that relied a bit more on instinct and athleticism than being overly precise with rotations in the half-court.

As his offense improved, so did his defense. Beasley wasn’t an All-Defense candidate by any means, but he was genuinely competent on that end of the floor over the second-half of the season.

The question now becomes, can he repeat that? Can that be the norm? Can he improve upon that to eventually become a borderline asset on defense? He’s probably unlikely to ever be that good, but it was encouraging to see him take genuine strides on that end of the floor.

This article was 2.5 years ago now, I think we mostly know the answer to the bolded part to be no. I guess there is a small chance for it to change and for him to become a real asset defensively but I won't hold my breath

updated for an article on each of the last 3 years.

his goal is an all defense team. his metrics are mediocre. checked his defensive ratings over the last 3 years and their fine. hes played on some crappy teams i think the effort drops. my favorite part of it was where he became a plus defender in more of an attacking scheme. maybe thats what griff sees.

either way i think this monologue about OMG how will we defend with dame and beasley in the backcourt is a bit trite. i think theyll do better than wed predict at least in non playoff settings or during long season grinding time. beasleys gonna know what keeps him on the court is defense not all his shotmaking. im 100x more in on him than the youngsters if its not pat. if he commits and hes like everybody says or even quits on that end a bit then geez...cut him.

[MVP2110]

https://www.canishoopus.com/2022/5/25/23140592/2021-22-minnesota-timberwolves-season-review-malik-beasley

This article was 2.5 years ago now, I think we mostly know the answer to the bolded part to be no. I guess there is a small chance for it to change and for him to become a real asset defensively but I won't hold my breath

updated for an article on each of the last 3 years.

his goal is an all defense team. his metrics are mediocre. checked his net ratings and their fine. hes played on some crappy teams i think the effort drops. my favorite part of it was where he became a plus defender in more of an attacking scheme. maybe thats what griff sees.

I watched him exclusively last night on the defensive end. He was terrible. Took a couple gambles, one paid off and he got an easy dunk but a couple didn't and he gave up open looks. He frequently lost his man when he was guarding off ball & Bane beat him several times off the dribble. Beasley's defensive metrics have been bad for years and nothing I've seen in the first two preseason games makes me think he'll be a plus defender, especially if he's tasked with "taking the toughest assignment" Heck in the article you linked they don't even say he's a good defender, they say he became an average defender. He got benched last year in the playoffs by a team trying to win atleast in part because his defense stunk.