Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[DCZards]

I concede Mann had a disappointing sophomore year and settled for a lot of bad shots, but if you watched Summer League, he often looked liked the best player on the floor in many of OKC's SL games. In terms of actual games, I think Mann has struggled somewhat to fit within OKC's unorthodox defensive scheme (also one of the reason I think they drafted Cason Wallace). But nearly 60% of his FGs last year were unassisted, and that's a level of self-creation the Wizards have desperately needed in recent years, particularly off the bench. And as I've already argued, his fit next to Poole in a pace-and-space offense is perfect.

I watched Tre Mann’s summer league performance and agree that he has a ton of potential. But given how well he played during SL OKC may not be interested in moving him. Here are excerpts from an article about Mann’s play during the 2023 summer league.

Tre Mann Helped OKC Thunder Future in Summer League

Heading into his third NBA season, Oklahoma City Thunder guard Tre Mann is in an interesting position with the franchise.
Mann is coming off a down year in his sophomore season, and while a decrease in stats can be attributed to a decrease in playing time, with an improved Thunder roster, his 3-point percentage also took a dramatic hit.

Last year's Thunder roster was already pretty guard-heavy. But with the selection of Cason Wallace No. 10 overall in the 2023 Draft and the signing of Vasilije Micić, it is even more so.

Mann is seemingly one of the odd ones out, but his Summer League play may have been impressive enough to make the Thunder want to keep the former Florida Gator around.

In four Summer League games, Mann averaged 20.5 points per game and shot 53.8% overall, including 46.4% from the 3-point line. He was on fire, showing off the potential great scoring and shot creation that he could provide for Oklahoma City.

Although Mann stands at 6-foot-3, his game allows him to be just as useful for the Thunder at both the point guard and shooting guard positions. Wallace and Mann could potentially play well together as a bench backcourt, due to Wallace's ability to cover for Mann's subpar defense.

While Oklahoma City could consider moving Mann before the season starts, seeing if he can grow in his third season may be much more beneficial.

[wewillnevertank]

I concede Mann had a disappointing sophomore year and settled for a lot of bad shots, but if you watched Summer League, he often looked liked the best player on the floor in many of OKC's SL games. In terms of actual games, I think Mann has struggled somewhat to fit within OKC's unorthodox defensive scheme (also one of the reason I think they drafted Cason Wallace). But nearly 60% of his FGs last year were unassisted, and that's a level of self-creation the Wizards have desperately needed in recent years, particularly off the bench. And as I've already argued, his fit next to Poole in a pace-and-space offense is perfect.

I watched Tre Mann’s summer league performance and agree that he has a ton of potential. But given how well he played during SL OKC may not be interested in moving him. Here are excerpts from an article about Mann’s play during the 2023 summer league.

Tre Mann Helped OKC Thunder Future in Summer League

Heading into his third NBA season, Oklahoma City Thunder guard Tre Mann is in an interesting position with the franchise.
Mann is coming off a down year in his sophomore season, and while a decrease in stats can be attributed to a decrease in playing time, with an improved Thunder roster, his 3-point percentage also took a dramatic hit.

Last year's Thunder roster was already pretty guard-heavy. But with the selection of Cason Wallace No. 10 overall in the 2023 Draft and the signing of Vasilije Micić, it is even more so.

Mann is seemingly one of the odd ones out, but his Summer League play may have been impressive enough to make the Thunder want to keep the former Florida Gator around.

In four Summer League games, Mann averaged 20.5 points per game and shot 53.8% overall, including 46.4% from the 3-point line. He was on fire, showing off the potential great scoring and shot creation that he could provide for Oklahoma City.

Although Mann stands at 6-foot-3, his game allows him to be just as useful for the Thunder at both the point guard and shooting guard positions. Wallace and Mann could potentially play well together as a bench backcourt, due to Wallace's ability to cover for Mann's subpar defense.

While Oklahoma City could consider moving Mann before the season starts, seeing if he can grow in his third season may be much more beneficial.

My optimism in Mann being on the block comes from a) OKC having a million young guys to pay, and as that article you posted suggested, he's "seemingly one of he odd ones out," and b) as has been noted, there's still a ton of room for growth in his shot selection and defensive instincts.

[payitforward]

...Tre Mann has had two very bad years in the league....

I concede Mann had a disappointing sophomore year....

Mann had an absolutely awful rookie year -- if anything he was just slightly better his second year (tho not as a scorer -- see below). S Still absolutely awful.

...but if you watched Summer League...

Irrelevant.

...nearly 60% of his FGs last year were unassisted, and that's a level of self-creation...

Tre Mann's total scoring percentage last year was .493. That is, to use the phrase again, absolutely awful.

If you just look at guys who played 1000+ minutes, on the numbers he was one the dozen or so worst in the league.

[gambitx777]

I wish we had gotten in on the Kevin Porter trade a couple of seconds seems like but we are gonna have to cut people. This would have been the perfect consolidation trade.

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[wewillnevertank]

I wish we had gotten in on the Kevin Porter trade a couple of seconds seems like but we are gonna have to cut people. This would have been the perfect consolidation trade.

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Stop it

[gambitx777]

I wish we had gotten in on the Kevin Porter trade a couple of seconds seems like but we are gonna have to cut people. This would have been the perfect consolidation trade.

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Stop it

Why stop it ? We are gonna have to cut guy. You might as well traded some and gotten some draft capital for clearing the spot any way.

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[payitforward]

OKC is going to waive Porter. They'll eat $16.9m. But, they lighten the burden by moving Oladipo's $9.5m contract in the deal.

Maybe what gamby means is that we could have done more or less the same thing. Traded someone we're going to have to waive anyway in return for a pair of R2 picks plus Porter, who gets waived.

[gambitx777]

OKC is going to waive Porter. They'll eat $16.9m. But, they lighten the burden by moving Oladipo's $9.5m contract in the deal.

Maybe what gamby means is that we could have done more or less the same thing. Traded someone we're going to have to waive anyway in return for a pair of R2 picks plus Porter, who gets waived.

Exactly what I meant.

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[payitforward]

Ah... I see that, yeah, gamby had exactly that in mind....

[gambitx777]

Ah... I see that, yeah, gamby had exactly that in mind....

So like yeah put
Muscala, Gallo and wright together.
We get
Porter Jr and a couple seconds.

Instead of we cut two random guys

We gain a spot to either promote a 2 way or sign a young big and we get picks instead of eating less money for nothing gained.

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[penbeast0]

Ah... I see that, yeah, gamby had exactly that in mind....

So like yeah put
Muscala, Gallo and eight together.
We get
Porter Jr and a couple seconds.

Instead of we cut two random guys

We gain a spot to either promote a 2 way or sign a young big and we get picks instead of eating less money for nothing gained.

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eight?

[gambitx777]

Ah... I see that, yeah, gamby had exactly that in mind....

So like yeah put
Muscala, Gallo and eight together.
We get
Porter Jr and a couple seconds.

Instead of we cut two random guys

We gain a spot to either promote a 2 way or sign a young big and we get picks instead of eating less money for nothing gained.

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eight?

Wright lol. I typo alot on a good day but I'm recovering from eye surgery lol sorry.

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[penbeast0]

Sure, that would have been nice. We could even have kept Muscala as we are short on big man depth and Houston doesn't need him.

[TGW]

I wonder if the Knicks are going to extend Quickley at his pricetag. They already have Brunson at the point, and will probably not put another 100MM in the position.

I know the Wizards were interested last season in trading for him.

[nate33]

I wonder if the Knicks are going to extend Quickley at his pricetag. They already have Brunson at the point, and will probably not put another 100MM in the position.

I know the Wizards were interested last season in trading for him.

Rumors are that the Knicks are going to go hard after Donovan Mitchell. They might want keep Quickley and use him in the trade.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

I can't wait until midseason, hoping we trade Poole, Kuzma, Jones, Gafford and anyone else who would bring back any return at all. I'd rather see us do a proper tank, with young guys who play hard. I'd be happy to watch Davis, Omoruyi, Bilal, Butler. We won't win a game, but it would be more fun to watch.

[gambitx777]

I can't wait until midseason, hoping we trade Poole, Kuzma, Jones, Gafford and anyone else who would bring back any return at all. I'd rather see us do a proper tank, with young guys who play hard. I'd be happy to watch Davis, Omoruyi, Bilal, Butler. We won't win a game, but it would be more fun to watch.

See I disagree. I don't think aiming for loosing is any good for anyone. I think you need to put a component product on the floor. I don't believe in the be a bad as possible tanks. I think rebuilding is good. I support trading kuz and anyone over 30. But I like Jones. I think Poole is a good rebuilding piece and his value will only go up as his contract gets shorter and others get larger.

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[penbeast0]

I can't wait until midseason, hoping we trade Poole, Kuzma, Jones, Gafford and anyone else who would bring back any return at all. I'd rather see us do a proper tank, with young guys who play hard. I'd be happy to watch Davis, Omoruyi, Bilal, Butler. We won't win a game, but it would be more fun to watch.

You need to take on salary to deal those guys so we'd just get back older, more problematic players so unless someone is willing to add draft compensation that's enough to be worth it, we probably keep our high priced guys like Poole. I can see someone being interested in Tyus Jones at the deadline, probably not moving any of the others this year.

[nate33]

I can't wait until midseason, hoping we trade Poole, Kuzma, Jones, Gafford and anyone else who would bring back any return at all. I'd rather see us do a proper tank, with young guys who play hard. I'd be happy to watch Davis, Omoruyi, Bilal, Butler. We won't win a game, but it would be more fun to watch.

See I disagree. I don't think aiming for loosing is any good for anyone. I think you need to put a component product on the floor. I don't believe in the be a bad as possible tanks. I think rebuilding is good. I support trading kuz and anyone over 30. But I like Jones. I think Poole is a good rebuilding piece and his value will only go up as his contract gets shorter and others get larger.

Agree with gambitx777.

The sweet spot for tanking is 24-27 wins. That still gets you a bottom 4 finish and max out the lotto balls. There's no need to dip into the totally demoralizing and toxic 15-20 win territory. You still want an atmosphere where players care about the games and have at least some chance of competing on most nights.

We should of course keep an eye out for any trades that turn our expiring-contract vets (Gallinari, Muscala, Wright, Shamet) into anything of longer term value. That would also free up some PT for our youngsters. But beyond that, I don't feel any compulsion to jettison competent youngish-veteran players (Jones, Kuzma, Gafford) just to get worse.

[payitforward]

Yes to both gamby & nate on this.

But... I don't think any team aims at losing. Rebuilding teams aim at maximizing their draft capital, & they accept the fact that they'll have to lose a lot of games for multiple seasons.

What else can a team do if it's in need of a complete rebuild? It's not likely that such a team has a lot of players it can trade for a significant return.

We certainly didn't! We had one past-his-prime good player. Period.
Of course we could have traded Kispert & Deni -- but that would have been pointless.