It's Dame Time!

[MVP2110]

I think the defense as a whole this year will be a great test in how much guard/wing defense truly matters. The Bucks have 2 of the best rim protecters in the NBA with Brook & Giannis, outside of those 2 though do they have a single proven plus defender? Maybe Jae? Dame, Beas, Khris, Payne, MarJon, Pat, Bobby all are either average, bad, or unproven.

[M-C-G]

Underrated aspect to the defense, we will take a lot more chances trying to get steals. Which is awesome because of the transition talent this team has. That could offset some of the drop in half court defense we see.

The other thing is that AG doesn't seem as ok with giving up threes to the extent Bud was. I'm not sure how it will be addressed but if that is a point of focus, could also offset some of the defensive talent lost. Never mind that with AJJ and MarJon we should be significantly longer and more athletic to challenge in the half court D. So yeah, we lost players but there are positive trade offs that could make the gap smaller than we think

[MVP2110]

Underrated aspect to the defense, we will take a lot more chances trying to get steals. Which is awesome because of the transition talent this team has. That could offset some of the drop in half court defense we see.

The other thing is that AG doesn't seem as ok with giving up threes to the extent Bud was. I'm not sure how it will be addressed but if that is a point of focus, could also offset some of the defensive talent lost. Never mind that with AJJ and MarJon we should be significantly longer and more athletic to challenge in the half court D. So yeah, we lost players but there are positive trade offs that could make the gap smaller than we think

I'm not sure anything you said is a positive or a negative. It's just different. Gambling for steals will lead to some easy transition opportunities but will also lead to us missing on those gambles and giving up open looks. We might give up less 3s overall but Toronto was always near the league lead in corner 3s given up. Griff wants us to attack more for offensive boards which will lead to more put backs for us but also lead to more transition opportunities for the opponent. I'm not necessarily saying these will be bad changes, but I'm also not sure they'll be positive either.

[Ron Swanson]

I'm wondering what people thought during Miami's run when their only significantly good defenders were Jimmy and Bam. Lowry, Robinson, Caleb Martin, Max Strus, and Gabe Vincent was nothing better than a collection of mediocre-at-best perimeter defensive talent, and that's with Jimmy essentially playing PF as a non-rim protector. Scheme does so much more of the heavy lifting when it comes to defense, so I'm not gonna give Griffin a pass just because we no longer have our swiss-army-knife guard defender. The good defensive coaches figure it out.

[ShootingtheJ]

I'm wondering what people thought during Miami's run when their only significantly good defenders were Jimmy and Bam. Lowry, Robinson, Caleb Martin, Max Strus, and Gabe Vincent was nothing better than a collection of mediocre-at-best perimeter defensive talent, and that's with Jimmy essentially playing PF as a non-rim protector. Scheme does so much more of the heavy lifting when it comes to defense, so I'm not gonna give Griffin a pass just because we no longer have our swiss-army-knife guard defender. The good defensive coaches figure it out.

So you think we'll play mostly zone like Miami did?

[Ron Swanson]

I'm wondering what people thought during Miami's run when their only significantly good defenders were Jimmy and Bam. Lowry, Robinson, Caleb Martin, Max Strus, and Gabe Vincent was nothing better than a collection of mediocre-at-best perimeter defensive talent, and that's with Jimmy essentially playing PF as a non-rim protector. Scheme does so much more of the heavy lifting when it comes to defense, so I'm not gonna give Griffin a pass just because we no longer have our swiss-army-knife guard defender. The good defensive coaches figure it out.

So you think we'll play mostly zone like Miami did?

No, it was an example of how the better defensive coaches understand how to construct scheme to fit the personnel and still end up with good defenses.

[MVP2110]

I'm wondering what people thought during Miami's run when their only significantly good defenders were Jimmy and Bam. Lowry, Robinson, Caleb Martin, Max Strus, and Gabe Vincent was nothing better than a collection of mediocre-at-best perimeter defensive talent, and that's with Jimmy essentially playing PF as a non-rim protector. Scheme does so much more of the heavy lifting when it comes to defense, so I'm not gonna give Griffin a pass just because we no longer have our swiss-army-knife guard defender. The good defensive coaches figure it out.

So you think we'll play mostly zone like Miami did?

No, it was an example of how the better defensive coaches understand how to construct scheme to fit the personnel and still end up with good defenses.

So what does that say about the Nurse/Griffin tenure in Toronto where they had some really good defenses but also some not so good ones?

[Ron Swanson]

So you think we'll play mostly zone like Miami did?

No, it was an example of how the better defensive coaches understand how to construct scheme to fit the personnel and still end up with good defenses.

So what does that say about the Nurse/Griffin tenure in Toronto where they had some really good defenses but also some not so good ones?

I'd say it depends on how much input/influence Griffin had on the defense, and whether or not Nurse's reputation as a defensive guru is overrated. We should get a better idea of both this year given they have completely different rosters now.

[MVP2110]

No, it was an example of how the better defensive coaches understand how to construct scheme to fit the personnel and still end up with good defenses.

So what does that say about the Nurse/Griffin tenure in Toronto where they had some really good defenses but also some not so good ones?

I'd say it depends on how much input/influence Griffin had on the defense, and whether or not Nurse's reputation as a defensive guru is overrated. We should get a better idea of both this year given they have completely different rosters now.

I guess I'm not trying to judge Griffin vs Nurse but rather them as a tandem in Toronto. If they had down seasons does that mean atleast 1 of them was failing that year in Toronto? Cause a big thing I saw when AG was hired was the lack of defensive talent Toronto had the last couple seasons.

[M-C-G]

Underrated aspect to the defense, we will take a lot more chances trying to get steals. Which is awesome because of the transition talent this team has. That could offset some of the drop in half court defense we see.

The other thing is that AG doesn't seem as ok with giving up threes to the extent Bud was. I'm not sure how it will be addressed but if that is a point of focus, could also offset some of the defensive talent lost. Never mind that with AJJ and MarJon we should be significantly longer and more athletic to challenge in the half court D. So yeah, we lost players but there are positive trade offs that could make the gap smaller than we think

I'm not sure anything you said is a positive or a negative. It's just different. .

I agree, I just suspect with this roster it could be net positive despite losing Jrue, Wes and Carter. Not willing to put money on it, just suspect it ends up working.

[Shaffty]

You guys are so worried about the stuff on the margins, because previously with a dogmatic coach and only one superstar you need to shore up the margins to win.

We have dame and giannis. The margins will not matter. We should be discussing what bar we should have the RealGM meetup at after the parade, thats a more pressing discussion.

[MVP2110]

You guys are so worried about the stuff on the margins, because previously with a dogmatic coach and only one superstar you need to shore up the margins to win.

We have dame and giannis. The margins will not matter. We should be discussing what bar we should have the RealGM meetup at after the parade, thats a more pressing discussion.

For me personally, when a coach makes an obviously dumb choice in something small(like Beasley being the 5th starter), it makes it harder for me to trust that coach with big decisions. I'm also a believer in that regardless of how talented a team is, you need at minimum an above average coach to win to a title.

Also the margins will definitely matter against teams like Boston, Denver, and Phoenix

[skones]

So what does that say about the Nurse/Griffin tenure in Toronto where they had some really good defenses but also some not so good ones?

I'd say it depends on how much input/influence Griffin had on the defense, and whether or not Nurse's reputation as a defensive guru is overrated. We should get a better idea of both this year given they have completely different rosters now.

I guess I'm not trying to judge Griffin vs Nurse but rather them as a tandem in Toronto. If they had down seasons does that mean atleast 1 of them was failing that year in Toronto? Cause a big thing I saw when AG was hired was the lack of defensive talent Toronto had the last couple seasons.

I don't think they've had defenses that could be considered "not so good." They bottomed out at 15th overall and that was with FVV, Siakam, Lowry, and Anunoby missing significant chunks of time.

[MVP2110]

I'd say it depends on how much input/influence Griffin had on the defense, and whether or not Nurse's reputation as a defensive guru is overrated. We should get a better idea of both this year given they have completely different rosters now.

I guess I'm not trying to judge Griffin vs Nurse but rather them as a tandem in Toronto. If they had down seasons does that mean atleast 1 of them was failing that year in Toronto? Cause a big thing I saw when AG was hired was the lack of defensive talent Toronto had the last couple seasons.

I don't think they've had defenses that could be considered "not so good." They bottomed out at 15th overall and that was with FVV, Siakam, Lowry, and Anunoby missing significant chunks of time.

I'd classify as 15th being not so good when we're talking about championship contenders. RonSwanson stated that good defensive coaches can basically put up a top 10 defense purely by having a good scheme. I paraphrased there and maybe I took it incorrectly but I think if we want to be a true contender we need to have a top 10 defense

[skones]

I guess I'm not trying to judge Griffin vs Nurse but rather them as a tandem in Toronto. If they had down seasons does that mean atleast 1 of them was failing that year in Toronto? Cause a big thing I saw when AG was hired was the lack of defensive talent Toronto had the last couple seasons.

I don't think they've had defenses that could be considered "not so good." They bottomed out at 15th overall and that was with FVV, Siakam, Lowry, and Anunoby missing significant chunks of time.

I'd classify as 15th being not so good when we're talking about championship contenders. RonSwanson stated that good defensive coaches can basically put up a top 10 defense purely by having a good scheme. I paraphrased there and maybe I took it incorrectly but I think if we want to be a true contender we need to have a top 10 defense

Just for reference, Denver just won with the 15th ranked defense.

[MVP2110]

I don't think they've had defenses that could be considered "not so good." They bottomed out at 15th overall and that was with FVV, Siakam, Lowry, and Anunoby missing significant chunks of time.

I'd classify as 15th being not so good when we're talking about championship contenders. RonSwanson stated that good defensive coaches can basically put up a top 10 defense purely by having a good scheme. I paraphrased there and maybe I took it incorrectly but I think if we want to be a true contender we need to have a top 10 defense

Just for reference, Denver just won with the 15th ranked defense.

As stated earlier they are very much the exception to the rule. In the last 20 years only 2 of the 20 NBA Finals winning teams had a defense ranked outside of the top 10. 2023 Denver who was 15th & the 2018 Warriors who were 11th.

[theFireBlanket]

You guys are so worried about the stuff on the margins, because previously with a dogmatic coach and only one superstar you need to shore up the margins to win.

We have dame and giannis. The margins will not matter. We should be discussing what bar we should have the RealGM meetup at after the parade, thats a more pressing discussion.

For me personally, when a coach makes an obviously dumb choice in something small(like Beasley being the 5th starter), it makes it harder for me to trust that coach with big decisions. I'm also a believer in that regardless of how talented a team is, you need at minimum an above average coach to win to a title.

Also the margins will definitely matter against teams like Boston, Denver, and Phoenix

Griffin essentially preaches that the margins are important, that everyone has to put in the work. Beasely will be outplayed if hes not the best option. Ivwouldn't sweat that.

But Giannis & Dame doesn't guarantee anything without work.

[Ron Swanson]

I think it's awfully hard in the NBA to really isolate coaching impact, but thankfully, Griffin doesn't need to come in and reinvent the wheel here. The foundation of this team was already great even before the Dame trade, but that's also why the bar is so high. Griffin is coming in with the reputation of being a "defense first" guy, so it's only fair that he should be judged depending on how the defense ultimately performs sans Jrue.

He's not exactly working with those pre-Bud rosters with Henson, Jabari, Thon, etc. You have 5 of the Top-7 minutes guys returning from a Top-5 defense last year, plus Crowder with a full offseason and training camp under his belt. We absolutely should not be a mediocre defense this season.

[Shaffty]

You guys are so worried about the stuff on the margins, because previously with a dogmatic coach and only one superstar you need to shore up the margins to win.

We have dame and giannis. The margins will not matter. We should be discussing what bar we should have the RealGM meetup at after the parade, thats a more pressing discussion.

For me personally, when a coach makes an obviously dumb choice in something small(like Beasley being the 5th starter), it makes it harder for me to trust that coach with big decisions. I'm also a believer in that regardless of how talented a team is, you need at minimum an above average coach to win to a title.

Also the margins will definitely matter against teams like Boston, Denver, and Phoenix

its not a bad choice. its the only choice. Marjon and AJAX are clearly not ready.

[Shaffty]

You guys are so worried about the stuff on the margins, because previously with a dogmatic coach and only one superstar you need to shore up the margins to win.

We have dame and giannis. The margins will not matter. We should be discussing what bar we should have the RealGM meetup at after the parade, thats a more pressing discussion.

For me personally, when a coach makes an obviously dumb choice in something small(like Beasley being the 5th starter), it makes it harder for me to trust that coach with big decisions. I'm also a believer in that regardless of how talented a team is, you need at minimum an above average coach to win to a title.

Also the margins will definitely matter against teams like Boston, Denver, and Phoenix

Griffin essentially preaches that the margins are important, that everyone has to put in the work. Beasely will be outplayed if hes not the best option. Ivwouldn't sweat that.

But Giannis & Dame doesn't guarantee anything without work.

its the best pnr ball handler/shooter and the best pnr roller/crasher. with a stretch 5 and two truly elite shooters. Its not hard to comprehend how easy this will be.

I guess we will have to wait unitll sunday at about 645 to you to realize it