Mavericks - 2023 Preseason (G4. Oct. 20 vs Pistons 7p.m CST)

[41Dirk41]

At least Holmes and Morris are expires, they just resign Kleber

Fortunately we traded well DFS last year... another low value player.

Holmes has a 12M player option for the next year which he will 100% take. Sadly, so far, he isn't what we thought he could be so Mavs are stuck with him for at least 2 years. Morris is a non guaranteed, so he's basically a complete non factor when it comes to either roster spot or salary cap.

Oh well, you are right.

Btw not a big problem, next year he will be a tradable piece and he can't be worse than Powell like back-up C.
No problem, we have to wait until Lively will be a starting C so we have time

[dirkules_41]

Not sure what peoples problem is. Lively has partially played 2 pre-season games with a group of players and a level of play he's never played at before

Like if he looks this raw 30 games into the season, fine... go for it and trash him but I mean when in the world would you expect him to actually get accustomed to NBA play and his team mates if not now.

And defensively he definitely is leaps and bounds better than Powell already, the rest he'll have to figure out with some time. We knew he wasn't gonna be an offensive power house and he wasn't drafted for that either.

[Mavrelous]

Not sure what peoples problem is. Lively has partially played 2 pre-season games with a group of players and a level of play he's never played at before

Like if he looks this raw 30 games into the season, fine... go for it and trash him but I mean when in the world would you expect him to actually get accustomed to NBA play and his team mates if not now.

And defensively he definitely is leaps and bounds better than Powell already, the rest he'll have to figure out with some time. We knew he wasn't gonna be an offensive power house and he wasn't drafted for that either.

It's not uncommon, Mark Williams (who this board wanted, but again rose from his projected draft position in the 20s to the lottery), started bad, but towards the end he looked legit NBA big, the difference between Lively and Williams, Williams had better college track record, and Williams is stronger then Lively.
If Lively follows Mark Williams path, it'll be amazing.

[Bob8]

Not sure what peoples problem is. Lively has partially played 2 pre-season games with a group of players and a level of play he's never played at before

Like if he looks this raw 30 games into the season, fine... go for it and trash him but I mean when in the world would you expect him to actually get accustomed to NBA play and his team mates if not now.

And defensively he definitely is leaps and bounds better than Powell already, the rest he'll have to figure out with some time. We knew he wasn't gonna be an offensive power house and he wasn't drafted for that either.

The only problem is, that he supposedly is starting.

[dirkules_41]

Not sure what peoples problem is. Lively has partially played 2 pre-season games with a group of players and a level of play he's never played at before

Like if he looks this raw 30 games into the season, fine... go for it and trash him but I mean when in the world would you expect him to actually get accustomed to NBA play and his team mates if not now.

And defensively he definitely is leaps and bounds better than Powell already, the rest he'll have to figure out with some time. We knew he wasn't gonna be an offensive power house and he wasn't drafted for that either.

The only problem is, that he supposedly is starting.

And? He's already better defensively than who we had starting at the position last season. And he's literally had no time and opportunity yet to prove or disprove his worthiness of that position. If he looks this raw in January then it's a fair discussion but 3 games into preseason it's ridiculous imo.
We knew he wasn't Wemby but that's also not what we drafted him for. If he can put up 6/6/2 with serious paint protection I think everyone will take it happily.

[ejs78]

Not sure what peoples problem is. Lively has partially played 2 pre-season games with a group of players and a level of play he's never played at before

Like if he looks this raw 30 games into the season, fine... go for it and trash him but I mean when in the world would you expect him to actually get accustomed to NBA play and his team mates if not now.

And defensively he definitely is leaps and bounds better than Powell already, the rest he'll have to figure out with some time. We knew he wasn't gonna be an offensive power house and he wasn't drafted for that either.

The only problem is, that he supposedly is starting.

And? He's already better defensively than who we had starting at the position last season. And he's literally had no time and opportunity yet to prove or disprove his worthiness of that position. If he looks this raw in January then it's a fair discussion but 3 games into preseason it's ridiculous imo.
We knew he wasn't Wemby but that's also not what we drafted him for. If he can put up 6/6/2 with serious paint protection I think everyone will take it happily.

Dirkules don't you know trying to be rational isn't welcome here .

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[41Dirk41]

Not sure what peoples problem is. Lively has partially played 2 pre-season games with a group of players and a level of play he's never played at before

Like if he looks this raw 30 games into the season, fine... go for it and trash him but I mean when in the world would you expect him to actually get accustomed to NBA play and his team mates if not now.

And defensively he definitely is leaps and bounds better than Powell already, the rest he'll have to figure out with some time. We knew he wasn't gonna be an offensive power house and he wasn't drafted for that either.

Lively is not the problem of course, what Cuban and Harrison expected to him is a problem.

We supposed to be a contender this year and we have a rookie, Powell and Holmes at C. It's pretty clear.

Everybody here hopes the best for Lively but the point of the discussion is not his potential... neither rookie Dwight Howard could be ready for contending(and we have to contend with Luka and Kyrie in their prime otherwise it's a failure of course).

[Bob8]

Not sure what peoples problem is. Lively has partially played 2 pre-season games with a group of players and a level of play he's never played at before

Like if he looks this raw 30 games into the season, fine... go for it and trash him but I mean when in the world would you expect him to actually get accustomed to NBA play and his team mates if not now.

And defensively he definitely is leaps and bounds better than Powell already, the rest he'll have to figure out with some time. We knew he wasn't gonna be an offensive power house and he wasn't drafted for that either.

The only problem is, that he supposedly is starting.

And? He's already better defensively than who we had starting at the position last season. And he's literally had no time and opportunity yet to prove or disprove his worthiness of that position. If he looks this raw in January then it's a fair discussion but 3 games into preseason it's ridiculous imo.
We knew he wasn't Wemby but that's also not what we drafted him for. If he can put up 6/6/2 with serious paint protection I think everyone will take it happily.

Man, he's starting in10 days not in January. Mavs can be dead and buried by then. We're discussing if he deserves starting place in game 1 not in game 30. I have already asked you, and didn't get the answer, name me a player, who's so raw and is starting for playoffs contender? I don't believe that even tanking teams have player like that.

He is not strong enough for serious paint protection. His D is similar what KP was providing, not much paint D one on one, but solid help D.

I don't like Powell for a starter too, but he's still better player than Lively at the moment. Again, I'm not talking about future but what are they today.

[Bob8]

The only problem is, that he supposedly is starting.

And? He's already better defensively than who we had starting at the position last season. And he's literally had no time and opportunity yet to prove or disprove his worthiness of that position. If he looks this raw in January then it's a fair discussion but 3 games into preseason it's ridiculous imo.
We knew he wasn't Wemby but that's also not what we drafted him for. If he can put up 6/6/2 with serious paint protection I think everyone will take it happily.

Dirkules don't you know trying to be rational isn't welcome here .

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Maybe you can help me and tell, which team in Nba has as week starter in Nba? And question # 2, which team has made playoffs starting as raw/bad player in Nba history? After that we can start talking, who's rational and who isn't.

I'm assuming that Mavs goal is making playoffs, if not, than, Lively, O-max and Hardy should start.

[ejs78]

And? He's already better defensively than who we had starting at the position last season. And he's literally had no time and opportunity yet to prove or disprove his worthiness of that position. If he looks this raw in January then it's a fair discussion but 3 games into preseason it's ridiculous imo.
We knew he wasn't Wemby but that's also not what we drafted him for. If he can put up 6/6/2 with serious paint protection I think everyone will take it happily.

Dirkules don't you know trying to be rational isn't welcome here .

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Maybe you can help me and tell, which team in Nba has as week starter in Nba? And question # 2, which team has made playoffs starting as raw/bad player in Nba history? After that we can start talking, who's rational and who isn't.

I'm assuming that Mavs goal is making playoffs, if not, than, Lively, O-max and Hardy should start.

I'm just waiting on the Vegas O/U on the amount of times you post today crying. Think I'm taking the over.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[BliscoSantos]

We all are rooting for Lively to succed but let's face it,the only reason he's starting is cause the Mavs are poor at C...and yes,Powell is better(skill wise)..if he had Lively's height and wingspan he'd be a great starter...Lively is a project,chances of him being ready to contribute to wining by game 30 of the season are slim...he's gonna start,but probably Play 15-20 minutes tops(depending on opposition,foul trouble,how the Mavs are playing)
We all wish he'd develop fast,contribute immediatelly...but he was the 12th picks and he only climbed the laderboard late because of his physical atributes and potential...nobody thought he was a sl funk succes ,otherwise he'd be picked higher...it's a huge leap playing against your peers and going to the pros playing against the best...Ibliked what I saw in preseason,but those games weren't played full throthle...it was basicaly exibition,trying not to get hurt...I actually think it would be better for him coming of the bench,playing against bench players but let's give them the Benedikt of the doubt ...we'll see how he does first ten games and if he's not ready for the Challenge,we know Powell Will become the starting C

[dirkforpres]

[*]

If Lively is starting C than we're tanking. Name me starting C that raw/bad in a team that made playoffs?

Is Lively better than Dwight Powell? Yes.
Were we in the WCF 16 months ago with Dwight Powell as starting C? Also yes.

Best thing we can do is try to win, develop the young players (Lively, OMax, Green, Hardy), and look for a buyer to take on bad contracts like Hardaway, Holmes, and Kleber. Once the Mavs finally defer this pick to the Knicks and have 3 FRPs + multiple SRPs to deal, then we can really look to move into the upper tier of teams with a blockbuster deal. Lively might not be the immediate answer at 5, but to say he isnt already an upgrade over other alternatives is just nonsense.

This isnt me saying we are fine at C by any means. I desperately wanted the Mavs to make a move for Capela, Ayton, or Zubac... But I also am not ready to dismiss a rookie C as us being in tank mode either. Thats ridiculous.

He's absolutely not better than Powell. There's no starter in a league as bad as Lively is in the moment. Not even close.

And youre ready to judge all of this off of him being outplayed by arguably the best 4-5 combo in the league with Gobert/Towns? Or off the one game vs Real Madrid without the 2 best players on the Mavs playing (not counting Luka's 5 min)? Hes not perfect and hes not Wembanyama or Holmgren, but you need to be realistic about what he is and what he can be. To say hes worse than Powell off of 3 preseason games is blasphemous. If he cuts down on fouls, he could easily be a double double machine, even as a rookie, and thats something we havent had since Tyson. Gotta give him the minutes and try to exercise patience my dude. Doesnt mean we are doomed this season, just let him figure it out and develop next to KAI/Luka. No reason to assume he cant be our Walker Kessler as a rookie

[Bob8]

Dirkules don't you know trying to be rational isn't welcome here .

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Maybe you can help me and tell, which team in Nba has as week starter in Nba? And question # 2, which team has made playoffs starting as raw/bad player in Nba history? After that we can start talking, who's rational and who isn't.

I'm assuming that Mavs goal is making playoffs, if not, than, Lively, O-max and Hardy should start.

I'm just waiting on the Vegas O/U on the amount of times you post today crying. Think I'm taking the over.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

I see nothing has changed, when asked about concrete things, you answer with smart words.

[ejs78]

Maybe you can help me and tell, which team in Nba has as week starter in Nba? And question # 2, which team has made playoffs starting as raw/bad player in Nba history? After that we can start talking, who's rational and who isn't.

I'm assuming that Mavs goal is making playoffs, if not, than, Lively, O-max and Hardy should start.

I'm just waiting on the Vegas O/U on the amount of times you post today crying. Think I'm taking the over.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

I see nothing has changed, when asked about concrete things, you answer with smart words.

Bob that's you who never answers direct questions. Nothing has been asked by you to me directly.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[dirkules_41]

The only problem is, that he supposedly is starting.

And? He's already better defensively than who we had starting at the position last season. And he's literally had no time and opportunity yet to prove or disprove his worthiness of that position. If he looks this raw in January then it's a fair discussion but 3 games into preseason it's ridiculous imo.
We knew he wasn't Wemby but that's also not what we drafted him for. If he can put up 6/6/2 with serious paint protection I think everyone will take it happily.

Dirkules don't you know trying to be rational isn't welcome here .

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Definitely not by Billybob. Now we just need to wait for Darren to arrive and tell us we need to cut Lively and sign Wang Zhizhi out of retirement because he had a good game in 2001 and can still develop.

[Bob8]

I'm just waiting on the Vegas O/U on the amount of times you post today crying. Think I'm taking the over.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

I see nothing has changed, when asked about concrete things, you answer with smart words.

Bob that's you who never answers direct questions. Nothing has been asked by you to me directly.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

I'm asking you. Named me similarly raw/bad starter for a team with playoffs aspirations? And if you can't, named me similarly bad starter for a tanking team?

[Bob8]

And? He's already better defensively than who we had starting at the position last season. And he's literally had no time and opportunity yet to prove or disprove his worthiness of that position. If he looks this raw in January then it's a fair discussion but 3 games into preseason it's ridiculous imo.
We knew he wasn't Wemby but that's also not what we drafted him for. If he can put up 6/6/2 with serious paint protection I think everyone will take it happily.

Dirkules don't you know trying to be rational isn't welcome here .

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Definitely not by Billybob. Now we just need to wait for Darren to arrive and tell us we need to cut Lively and sign Wang Zhizhi out of retirement because he had a good game in 2001 and can still develop.

The same question to you, which team with playoffs aspirations has starter as bad as Lively?

[dirkules_41]

Dirkules don't you know trying to be rational isn't welcome here .

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Definitely not by Billybob. Now we just need to wait for Darren to arrive and tell us we need to cut Lively and sign Wang Zhizhi out of retirement because he had a good game in 2001 and can still develop.

The same question to you, which team with playoffs aspirations has starter as bad as Lively?

Well the "bad" is your judgement right now, which again, at this point in time I do neither agree with nor do I think any premature judgement like that can even be passed.
Give me a list of all 31 others and I'll tell ya.

[dirkules_41]

Spin: Lively has started Dallas' first three preseason contests, averaging 3.3 points, 5.0 rebounds and 2.0 blocks in 19.1 minutes per game. While those aren't prolific numbers, the rookie understands his role and has excelled as a defensive anchor and rim roller. Per Afseth, the team believes Lively has shown enough to run with the first unit to begin the regular season. "Look at what Lively has done here on this trip," head coach Jason Kidd said after Tuesday's exhibition versus Real Madrid. "He's doing extremely well."

This is how ESPN sees it. He didn't visually look bad out there. If he played 30min, for which he'd have to get his fouls under control those would be some pretty solid stats.

[Bob8]

[*]

Is Lively better than Dwight Powell? Yes.
Were we in the WCF 16 months ago with Dwight Powell as starting C? Also yes.

Best thing we can do is try to win, develop the young players (Lively, OMax, Green, Hardy), and look for a buyer to take on bad contracts like Hardaway, Holmes, and Kleber. Once the Mavs finally defer this pick to the Knicks and have 3 FRPs + multiple SRPs to deal, then we can really look to move into the upper tier of teams with a blockbuster deal. Lively might not be the immediate answer at 5, but to say he isnt already an upgrade over other alternatives is just nonsense.

This isnt me saying we are fine at C by any means. I desperately wanted the Mavs to make a move for Capela, Ayton, or Zubac... But I also am not ready to dismiss a rookie C as us being in tank mode either. Thats ridiculous.

He's absolutely not better than Powell. There's no starter in a league as bad as Lively is in the moment. Not even close.

And youre ready to judge all of this off of him being outplayed by arguably the best 4-5 combo in the league with Gobert/Towns? Or off the one game vs Real Madrid without the 2 best players on the Mavs playing (not counting Luka's 5 min)? Hes not perfect and hes not Wembanyama or Holmgren, but you need to be realistic about what he is and what he can be. To say hes worse than Powell off of 3 preseason games is blasphemous. If he cuts down on fouls, he could easily be a double double machine, even as a rookie, and thats something we havent had since Tyson. Gotta give him the minutes and try to exercise patience my dude. Doesnt mean we are doomed this season, just let him figure it out and develop next to KAI/Luka. No reason to assume he cant be our Walker Kessler as a rookie

He was outplayed by Naz Reid and Poirier. I have impression that Mavs need D, because Luka and Kyrie don't provide much on that side. So it's should be beneficial for D that they didn't play. But somehow Real scored 127 points.