Forgotten by time: the Olajuwon/Drexler/Barkley (& Pippen) Houston Rockets

[SelfishPlayer]

Terribly coached team!

[jehosafats]

Scottie Pippen Explains Why The 1998-99 Houston Rockets Superteam Was A Failure: "I Didn't Realize How Much Hakeem Had Diminished... I Didn't Realize Charles Wasn't As Dedicated As I Thought He Would Be."

Then it was followed up by the Stevie Franchise/Mobley era.

[NZB2323]

I recall thinking this would be game over for the league...how stupid I was. Looking back, Chuck had become almost exclusively a post player who had a propensity to take stupid 3's. So playing next to Hakeem who creates 3's and wants the ball in the post is just a terrible idea. The rockets seemed decent however at getting them both good touches in the post. The real issue of course was going from having a legit high quality point guard (Cassell, who thanks to going to the bucks will never be remembered as nearly as good a point guard as he actually was) to what was it? Some 25 or something year old rookie point guard was running the show. I mean it was seriously a terrible fit and a classic example of 1+1=1 with compounding the same skills on a team vs having guys who complement each other.

Pippen was however a very good addition as he's much more a point than Drexler...but by then age was far too big a problem. Add in Pippen wasn't a catch and shoot guy and the rockets just wanted to throw the ball into the post to two aging big men who I suppose likely weren't still able to play with more movement and action.

Anyway I fondly remember this team as much through basketball cards as from sport center leading up to the season. During the season...they really weren't that much fun to watch.

1. Yes!

2. Cassell sits at 174th on my all-time spreadsheet this morning. He was very good. Houston probably doesn't win either of its titles without him. He was ready from Day 1. Playoff numbers in his first two seasons (two titles), over 44 games: 17.1 PER, .564 TS%, .390% from 3; PER100's: 24.7 PPG, 10.0 APG, 2.3 SPG, 4.4 TOPG. He was a legit championship sixth man (probably the best guard on the team) right away and later developed into either an All-Star or very close to one.

If he'd gotten some better situations instead of the bucks, I think cassell could be a guy we all debate hall or not with. Not sure he could have been a clear hall guy...but the way he looked next to KG. How disciplined he was on the rockets. Maybe with the right guys he's a 5x nba champ and first ballot guy. Hard to say as he was just such a smart and under control player.

If not for some officiating in 2001 he may have made the Finals with the Bucks. Milwaukee wasn’t the worst place for him as he got to play with Ray Allen, but Glenn Robinson wasn’t the NBA star people thought he would be.

[Kobe187]

Lol Pippen tried everything to win a Chip without MJ.

[dhsilv2]

1. Yes!

2. Cassell sits at 174th on my all-time spreadsheet this morning. He was very good. Houston probably doesn't win either of its titles without him. He was ready from Day 1. Playoff numbers in his first two seasons (two titles), over 44 games: 17.1 PER, .564 TS%, .390% from 3; PER100's: 24.7 PPG, 10.0 APG, 2.3 SPG, 4.4 TOPG. He was a legit championship sixth man (probably the best guard on the team) right away and later developed into either an All-Star or very close to one.

If he'd gotten some better situations instead of the bucks, I think cassell could be a guy we all debate hall or not with. Not sure he could have been a clear hall guy...but the way he looked next to KG. How disciplined he was on the rockets. Maybe with the right guys he's a 5x nba champ and first ballot guy. Hard to say as he was just such a smart and under control player.

If not for some officiating in 2001 he may have made the Finals with the Bucks. Milwaukee wasn’t the worst place for him as he got to play with Ray Allen, but Glenn Robinson wasn’t the NBA star people thought he would be.

Ray was a nice guy to play with, but Sam needed a real big man, and those buck teams needed defense as I recall.

But look at his stats, for 6 years the guy had a PER of 20 or more. Anyone in that era on a good team, was making allstar games with a 20 PER who started. I'm not here to debate if PER is a good stat, it isn't. But it correlates historically with allstar games REALLY well. You give him 5 more allstar appearances and he's in that hall discussion. Instead he's got guys like, to your point, Glen Robinson getting likely votes and he's kinda ignored.

Sam's weird in that I think he's actually a HUGE part of the REAL history of the NBA and it's a history big mainstream sports writers don't really like. They love Hakeem as this all time great, as they should, but as a result they don't want to talk about how critical Sam was. Then with KG and him...nobody really wants to talk about how actually good that 2004 Wolves team was with just 2 legit players. People want to prop up Spree of all people as this "3rd star" which is absurd. Point being, I think his role and the story of those two teams are under represented for numerous reasons. Sam really might be the best player ever, who's historical impact in terms of awards and notoriety is just COMPLETELY ignored.

[dhsilv2]

Lol Pippen tried everything to win a Chip without MJ.

And he got extremely close!

[SelfishPlayer]

Lol Pippen tried everything to win a Chip without MJ.

Jordan has NEVER been beyond the first round of the playoffs without Scottie Pippen. Pippen can say that he has.

[jbsays]

Even as a kid I knew this was one of those things that looked good on paper, but wasn't going to work out. As others have said.... they were simply too old and all past their primes. It could have worked had one of them (namely Olajuwon) was still in their prime, but none of them were.

When the Nets got Pierce and KG is was almost like deja vu. Worth a shot, but if it didn't happen in a year or two it wasn't going to work.

Olajuwon, Barkley, Pippen, and Drexler were all amazing players. Best of their generation. Ewing was from that generation and the Knicks finally made the Finals (Jordan retired) with him being hobbled with Sprewell, Houston, and LJ. By that time guys like Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan were hitting their peak.

If you haven't watched any Barkley highlights I would recommend it. Guy was a 6'4 PF with unbelievable strength and could jump out of the gym. Zion might be closest thing I have seen, but he is always hurt.

[dhsilv2]

Even as a kid I knew this was one of those things that looked good on paper, but wasn't going to work out. As others have said.... they were simply too old and all past their primes. It could have worked had one of them (namely Olajuwon) was still in their prime, but none of them were.

When the Nets got Pierce and KG is was almost like deja vu. Worth a shot, but if it didn't happen in a year or two it wasn't going to work.

Olajuwon, Barkley, Pippen, and Drexler were all amazing players. Best of their generation. Ewing was from that generation and the Knicks finally made the Finals (Jordan retired) with him being hobbled with Sprewell, Houston, and LJ. By that time guys like Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan were hitting their peak.

If you haven't watched any Barkley highlights I would recommend it. Guy was a 6'4 PF with unbelievable strength and could jump out of the gym. Zion might be closest thing I have seen, but he is always hurt.

Kobe and Duncan...peaks? umm no.

[jbsays]

Even as a kid I knew this was one of those things that looked good on paper, but wasn't going to work out. As others have said.... they were simply too old and all past their primes. It could have worked had one of them (namely Olajuwon) was still in their prime, but none of them were.

When the Nets got Pierce and KG is was almost like deja vu. Worth a shot, but if it didn't happen in a year or two it wasn't going to work.

Olajuwon, Barkley, Pippen, and Drexler were all amazing players. Best of their generation. Ewing was from that generation and the Knicks finally made the Finals (Jordan retired) with him being hobbled with Sprewell, Houston, and LJ. By that time guys like Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan were hitting their peak.

If you haven't watched any Barkley highlights I would recommend it. Guy was a 6'4 PF with unbelievable strength and could jump out of the gym. Zion might be closest thing I have seen, but he is always hurt.

Kobe and Duncan...peaks? umm no.

1998-1999: Spurs won their first ring with Duncan. Lakers beat the Rockets in the first round with Kobe and Shaq.
2000-2002: Lakers won 3 rings in a row with Kobe and Shaq.

Kobe and Duncan were on the way up. Barkley, Olajuwon, Pippen, and Drexler were on the downside of their careers. You can argue about the verbiage of "hitting their peaks", but the league was changing with the next generation of players with Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe was on the rise. The Lakers and Spurs went on to win 7 of the next 10 NBA championships with the Pistons, Shaq/Wade Heat, and KG/Pierce/Allen celtics winning the other 3. There's no higher peak in the NBA than winning a NBA championship. It is the top of the mountain,

[dhsilv2]

Even as a kid I knew this was one of those things that looked good on paper, but wasn't going to work out. As others have said.... they were simply too old and all past their primes. It could have worked had one of them (namely Olajuwon) was still in their prime, but none of them were.

When the Nets got Pierce and KG is was almost like deja vu. Worth a shot, but if it didn't happen in a year or two it wasn't going to work.

Olajuwon, Barkley, Pippen, and Drexler were all amazing players. Best of their generation. Ewing was from that generation and the Knicks finally made the Finals (Jordan retired) with him being hobbled with Sprewell, Houston, and LJ. By that time guys like Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan were hitting their peak.

If you haven't watched any Barkley highlights I would recommend it. Guy was a 6'4 PF with unbelievable strength and could jump out of the gym. Zion might be closest thing I have seen, but he is always hurt.

Kobe and Duncan...peaks? umm no.

1998-1999: Spurs won their first ring with Duncan. Lakers beat the Rockets in the first round with Kobe and Shaq.
2000-2002: Lakers won 3 rings in a row with Kobe and Shaq.

Kobe and Duncan were on the way up. Barkley, Olajuwon, Pippen, and Drexler were on the downside of their careers. You can argue about the verbiage of "hitting their peaks", but the league was changing with the next generation of players with Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe was on the rise. The Lakers and Spurs went on to win 7 of the next 10 NBA championships with the Pistons, Shaq/Wade Heat, and KG/Pierce/Allen celtics winning the other 3. There's no higher peak in the NBA than winning a NBA championship. It is the top of the mountain,

Teams win titles not players. Duncan was most certainly not at his peak in 99. Kobe's peak could be argued to be at the very very end of that run, but those guys were gone. There's always new guys coming into the league and guys coming up. Shaq was peaking at that time, the guy drafted in 1992. Not Kobe who developed slowly or Duncan who was part of the 97 draft and was a rookie in 98.

[NUMBERICA]

But but but Hakeem never played with another all-star!

I've never heard anyone say that.

He did, however, win a ring in 1994 without another all-star (and no borderline all-stars either; no other players scored even 15 ppg) and did it in one of the best big men eras in league history.

(He followed that up with winning another ring - this time with Drexler - going through Malone, emasculating MVP David Robinson, Barkley, and sweeping Shaq.)

[tsherkin]

But but but Hakeem never played with another all-star!

I've never heard anyone say that.

He did, however, win a ring in 1994 without another all-star (and no borderline all-stars either; no other players scored even 15 ppg) and did it in one of the best big men eras in league history.

Technically true, though Thorpe had previously made an All-Star team and then in the playoffs, they rotated by series.

For example, three guys other than Olajuwon averaged 14.8+ ppg in the first round vs. Portland: 14.8 from Thorpe, 15.0 from Horry and 16.8 from Maxwell. Thorpe scored 14.0 ppg against Phoenix. Kenny Smith averaged 14.8 ppg against the Jazz and then yeah, it was pretty quiet in that ugly-as-sin Finals series against the Knicks... though it behooves one to remember that Olajuwon shot 10/25 in G7 and it was 21 from Vernon Maxwell which carried their O (though of course Dream checking Ewing and getting that block on Starks also made a huge difference).

And of course with Drexler, he had been an All-Star in 94 and then he was an AS again in 96 and 97, so him being "not an All-Star" in 95 is basically a bit of BS technicality.

IOW it's a bit misleading to characterize Dream as not having AS help or guys that didn't score a bunch. It's technically true of the RS, but if we confined ourselves to that, then we'd see many more bigs looking great. Like David Robinson, who had considerably less help in San Antonio and similar RS success. The Houston title run in 94 was quite impressive, but it was hardly a solo effort the way people try to paint it.

Scottie Pippen Explains Why The 1998-99 Houston Rockets Superteam Was A Failure: "I Didn't Realize How Much Hakeem Had Diminished... I Didn't Realize Charles Wasn't As Dedicated As I Thought He Would Be."

Then it was followed up by the Stevie Franchise/Mobley era.

Scottie runs his mouth a lot and talks about everyone but himself most of the time. He was HORRENDOUS in the playoffs, apart from rebounding. Really, really bad. The chemistry on that team wasn't good, but man, he shouldn't be ripping on Chuck or Dream at that point, only focusing on how short he came up with his own performance.

[NUMBERICA]

But but but Hakeem never played with another all-star!

I've never heard anyone say that.

He did, however, win a ring in 1994 without another all-star (and no borderline all-stars either; no other players scored even 15 ppg) and did it in one of the best big men eras in league history.

Technically true, though Thorpe had previously made an All-Star team and then in the playoffs, they rotated by series.

For example, three guys other than Olajuwon averaged 14.8+ ppg in the first round vs. Portland: 14.8 from Thorpe, 15.0 from Horry and 16.8 from Maxwell. Thorpe scored 14.0 ppg against Phoenix. Kenny Smith averaged 14.8 ppg against the Jazz and then yeah, it was pretty quiet in that ugly-as-sin Finals series against the Knicks... though it behooves one to remember that Olajuwon shot 10/25 in G7 and it was 21 from Vernon Maxwell which carried their O (though of course Dream checking Ewing and getting that block on Starks also made a huge difference).

And of course with Drexler, he had been an All-Star in 94 and then he was an AS again in 96 and 97, so him being "not an All-Star" in 95 is basically a bit of BS technicality.

Slow down, I didn't say Drexler wasn't an all-star.

I'm not sure why you're putting so much work into debating a point you can't debate in 1994, though. I'm not making statements about '95 and on. Few players rival his accomplishments in '94 and have done more with less in NBA history. It's fine that that's measurably true.

The Houston title run in 94 was quite impressive, but it was hardly a solo effort the way people try to paint it.

There is no such thing as a champion that did it solo, but give me the list of players that won like he did with help like he had. I'm not saying there aren't others on the list, but its a very small one.

[tsherkin]

Slow down, I didn't say Drexler wasn't an all-star.

You didn't, but that's sort of the conceit from others in this thread when reminding folks that Hakeem didn't win a title with another All-Star.

I'm not sure why you're putting so much work into debating a point you can't debate in 1994, though. I'm not making statements about '95 and on. Few players rival his accomplishments in '94 and have done more with less in NBA history. It's fine that that's measurably true.

It's technically true. It escapes context, though, because people use that fact from 94 to try and enhance his value, when what actually happened is that all his guys stepped up around him as if he had the AS-level talent he didn't enjoy in the RS, though. They imply that Olajuwon carried that team solo to the title, which is entirely BS.

[KrAzY3]

Of course people around here don't want to talk about it much, when they've created a narrative that Jordan couldn't win without Pippen and Pippen carried him to those titles.

He couldn't carry Olajuwon, Drexler and Barkley though.

[tsherkin]

Of course people around here don't want to talk about it much, when they've created a narrative that Jordan couldn't win without Pippen and Pippen carried him to those titles.

He couldn't carry Olajuwon, Drexler and Barkley though.

In as much as I crack on Pippen, he WAS also 33 and coming off a second back surgery, so he certainly wasn't in peak form. That enhanced his other weaknesses, and they did also have terrible, terrible team chemistry on the court.

[KrAzY3]

Of course people around here don't want to talk about it much, when they've created a narrative that Jordan couldn't win without Pippen and Pippen carried him to those titles.

He couldn't carry Olajuwon, Drexler and Barkley though.

In as much as I crack on Pippen, he WAS also 33 and coming off a second back surgery, so he certainly wasn't in peak form

Well, Jordan won titles at the age of 32, 33, and 34, but of course it was all the younger Pippen carrying him.

So Jordan could only win with "young (but not too young)" Pippen carrying him, heh...

[tsherkin]

Well, Jordan won titles at the age of 32, 33, and 34, but of course it was all the younger Pippen carrying him.

So Jordan could only win with "young (but not too young)" Pippen carrying him, heh...

I hate reductive games like that, though. He had Rodman, he had Phil, he had Kerr and Kukoc and so forth. Decent frontcourt depth.

And Pippen was very good on Chicago. Jordan was amazing, but no one wins a title without teammates stepping up. And let's be honest, Chicago's offensive approach in the second three-peat could have been better if Pippen had been better.

96-98 in the playoffs, Pippen posted 17.6 ppg, 7/4 rpg and 5.0 apg on 40.8% FG, 29.3% 3P, 70.0% FT, 50.0% TS, .337 FTr and 7.3% ORB

Jordan, for his part, had a non-ideal go of it in the Finals those years. I've posted it elsewhere, but people remember the scoring volume more than the shooting percentages, yeah? 41.5% FG and 53.8% TS in 96 (equal to league-average TS% in the playoffs), 45.6% FG and 53.2% TS (-0.3% TS relative to playoff average), and then 42.7% FG and 51.6% TS (-1.3% TS relative to league PS average) in 98.

They could have used another source of efficient scoring to help him out, and are lucky that they were playing really, really strong possession-control basketball. And that Utah was quite bad offensively in those series. Luckier in 97, when their own offense was brutal and Utah was better than they were in 98. In 97, Scottie had a nice game one in the Finals, and then shot 38.2% FG for the rest of the series.

So yeah. My comment about age and surgeries comes with the reminder that Pippen didn't generally have reliable shooting to fall back on the way Jordan did. He was, at that point, the greatest mid-range scorer we've ever seen, and leaned on that HARD in that second three-peat.