Mavericks - 2023 Preseason (G4. Oct. 20 vs Pistons 7p.m CST)

[arkuo]

I like how you take the sports but in Europe we prioritize the goal... and if you want to win (i remember that Luka and Kyrie are here for this) then a starting rookie C with Dwight freakin Powell like back-up is a moron move.
We have different mindset. Happens.

And yes, i have read your post but it doesn't show your real attitude but just empty words, like all of your opinionated posts.

But you won. Congrats. Again.

If we want to talk about empty posts how about saying Cuban is dumb daily several times a day for starters. Sorry this isn't Europe, but you are following a team in the NBA and if you cant grasp some of the concepts after years that sounds like a you problem.

Last year's concept was, give McGee 3 years deal and promise him starting role and this year concept is, draft 5/5 college player, who has 0 already developed basketball skills, and give him starting role? Great concepts.

Bob still has a bit of that Soviet commie mindset that if you're not with his idea, you're automatically pro Mark Cuban. Typical for boomers born in that area. For this we just say yes to everything he says to avoid any conflict with commies. Yes, Bob. Yes, we agree.

[Bob8]

If we want to talk about empty posts how about saying Cuban is dumb daily several times a day for starters. Sorry this isn't Europe, but you are following a team in the NBA and if you cant grasp some of the concepts after years that sounds like a you problem.

Last year's concept was, give McGee 3 years deal and promise him starting role and this year concept is, draft 5/5 college player, who has 0 already developed basketball skills, and give him starting role? Great concepts.

And here comes Bob acting like ever said giving McGee a 3 year deal was a homerun (please find the post). The team isn't going to do what you always want them to do which seems very hard for you to grasp. This will be twisted into pro Cuban I'm sure like it always does, but the franchise has done a lot better than most since he's taken over (You'll come up with something) Since your a fanboy you likely don't remember what the team was before he purchased it. I live in Detroit where the Pistons made the ECF six straight years since Cuban took over and they have a losing record in that same timeframe.

So you basically saying that even if Mavs don't do anything anymore, Mavs fans should be grateful for Cuban?

That's the biggest difference between USA and Europe. In Europe teams are heavily criticised even for a single bad season. What do you think would happen to Real, Barca, Bayern...in football, if they had multiple bad seasons? Everyone in the club would need to go. American owners of Manchester United have to sell the club, because everyone was against them. On the other hand watching fans in Nba games, I can understand why is like that, vast majority are not there for result, but for entertainment.
There's 1 thing I'm sure of, Luka is not Dirk, few more years like that and he's gone. And Mavs can start new rebuilding process without much expectation.

And to return to the topic. Lively is by definition more a rebuilding move, than anything else. They took a huge risk with Kyrie, ultimate win now move, and then drafted 2 rookies. Something just doesn't add up.

[41Dirk41]

If we want to talk about empty posts how about saying Cuban is dumb daily several times a day for starters. Sorry this isn't Europe, but you are following a team in the NBA and if you cant grasp some of the concepts after years that sounds like a you problem.

Last year's concept was, give McGee 3 years deal and promise him starting role and this year concept is, draft 5/5 college player, who has 0 already developed basketball skills, and give him starting role? Great concepts.

And here comes Bob acting like ever said giving McGee a 3 year deal was a homerun (please find the post). The team isn't going to do what you always want them to do which seems very hard for you to grasp. This will be twisted into pro Cuban I'm sure like it always does, but the franchise has done a lot better than most since he's taken over (You'll come up with something) Since your a fanboy you likely don't remember what the team was before he purchased it. I live in Detroit where the Pistons made the ECF six straight years since Cuban took over and they have a losing record in that same timeframe.

Ah ok, your bar is set very low... basically a 50% season is a good season because you compare it with the Mavs before Cuban or other scrub teams who never make PO... until there are teams who have a worst season than us we are ok. Cuban is safe.


I disagree but we agree that it's our difference, for me a no WCF season it's a failure (mostly with Doncic on the roster).

That's very sad, but good for Cuban and the Mavs FO. Easy work... and well paid.

America, the land of opportunities

[Mavrelous]

Let's focus on the basketball aspects and not personal analysis and soviet/US references.

[Archx]

Season hasn't even started yet and i never had lower expectations or interest in watching games as this time. These 3 pre-season games were horrible offense/defense, same problems as before and same coach who's just watching games like us. And on top of it you guys are also already bickering like old women.

[Darren]

Risk it on Kai Jones?

Can't be worse than Holmes who is only kept as a contract

I am thinking about trading Holmes and pick for Jerami Grant instead. This strengthens the defense and upgrades the big man rotation at the same time getting a third option as well. This is the kind of deal that works.

[Archx]

Risk it on Kai Jones?

Can't be worse than Holmes who is only kept as a contract

I am thinking about trading Holmes and pick for Jerami Grant instead. This strengthens the defense and upgrades the big man rotation at the same time getting a third option as well. This is the kind of deal that works.

You think Holmes and a pick will get you Grant? Oof..

[Bob8]

I wonder how much is Lively worth? 19 years old starters should be very valuable.

[Captain_Obvious]

Risk it on Kai Jones?

Can't be worse than Holmes who is only kept as a contract

I am thinking about trading Holmes and pick for Jerami Grant instead. This strengthens the defense and upgrades the big man rotation at the same time getting a third option as well. This is the kind of deal that works.

You think Holmes and a pick will get you Grant? Oof..

I mean maybe - Grant on that contract is hard to move

But he can't be traded for awhile anyway

[Mavrelous]

Risk it on Kai Jones?

Can't be worse than Holmes who is only kept as a contract

I am thinking about trading Holmes and pick for Jerami Grant instead. This strengthens the defense and upgrades the big man rotation at the same time getting a third option as well. This is the kind of deal that works.

You think Holmes and a pick will get you Grant? Oof..

Jerami Grant right now is one of the worst contracts in the league, avergage defender, average rebounder, good scorer as a 3rd option, paid 32/yr, on contract that cover his playing age 30-34.
Mavs need to be extremely careful with such contracts.

[Archx]

I am thinking about trading Holmes and pick for Jerami Grant instead. This strengthens the defense and upgrades the big man rotation at the same time getting a third option as well. This is the kind of deal that works.

You think Holmes and a pick will get you Grant? Oof..

Jerami Grant right now is one of the worst contracts in the league, avergage defender, average rebounder, good scorer as a 3rd option, paid 32/yr, on contract that cover his playing age 30-34.
Mavs need to be extremely careful with such contracts.

THJ+Holmes would get it done (salary wise) since Grant starts at 27M then 29M, etc... But Blazers are probably looking for prospects and draft stock. Both Holmes and THJ still have 2y left on contract, Holmes contract is specifically not looking good at the moment.

In order to get this done, Mavs would need to re-sign Green to a reasonable contract then convince Blazers he's good enough as an up and coming player so that Mavs wouldn't need to attach extra draft picks or maybe even get rid of one of their bad contracts.

But at the end of the day, I HAVE NO CLUE in what direction is this franchise going at the moment. Their roster is insanely confusing. I know people like to talk **** to Bob8 but at the end of the day he's right. This roster right now is a complete mess. Suspect rookies, questionable veterans an unreliable 2nd star and already injured 1st star. They would need to probably part with some key guys in order to get Grant but is he even worth it? Like you said, probably not.

[Mavrelous]

THJ+Holmes would get it done (salary wise) since Grant starts at 27M then 29M, etc... But Blazers are probably looking for prospects and draft stock. Both Holmes and THJ still have 2y left on contract, Holmes contract is specifically not looking good at the moment.

In order to get this done, Mavs would need to re-sign Green to a reasonable contract then convince Blazers he's good enough as an up and coming player so that Mavs wouldn't need to attach extra draft picks or maybe even get rid of one of their bad contracts.

I think part of what complicated the Lillard situation is the Jerami Grant one, he waited until after FA to demand the trade and Blazers signed Grant thinking Lillard is there, Jerami Grant is not an asset on that contract, and I'm not sure how the Blazers feel about him, but THJ/Homes/1st will definitely get him IMO, I wouldn't give up the 1st, and I would've prefered they traded THJ/Holmes for Ayton.

But at the end of the day, I HAVE NO CLUE in what direction is this franchise going at the moment. Their roster is insanely confusing. I know people like to talk **** to Bob8 but at the end of the day he's right. This roster right now is a complete mess. Suspect rookies, questionable veterans an unreliable 2nd star and already injured 1st star. They would need to probably part with some key guys in order to get Grant but is he even worth it? Like you said, probably not.

I think most of the board agrees this FO screwed up, royally, in hindsight, 2021 offseason was a massive failure, in 2022 there was no need for hindsight to see it, it was clear they were running around like chicken with their head cut off.

This offseason was much better than the previous 2, and indeed, they are running in mixed direction, they are getting young, and they are retaining Kyrie, my reading is very simple, they are:
1. Keeping the roster full of young players for 2025 (Luka's supermax eligible).
2. Keeping cap flexibility (no big long term contracts except Luka), Kyrie was signed for 3 years only.
3. Still trying to compete, signed Kyrie.

I don't agree with everything they're doing, Kidd should've been fired, Ayton should've been acquired, but at least it's better than last year.
This team isn't reaching the WCF, but they have foundation for next year.

My personal guess is that they start awful, and Kidd is fired, and new coach inserts spark and re-ignites the team.

[ejs78]

I wonder how much is Lively worth? 19 years old starters should be very valuable.

Im old enough to remember being told Luka makes everyone better.

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[ejs78]

No Bob I'm saying for 20 years that Cuban has had a good track record and things could be worse. If that track record holds the team will still be pretty strong going forward compared to a team like let's say the Wizards.

You're following the NBA. I don't care about European hoops cuz that's not what this forum is for and after years you still don't get it.

Here's my criticism of Cuban.Why can't he hold Luka accountable?

You know the guy who comes in to camp repeatedly out of shape.

The guy who can't stop complaining to the refs, gets a bunch of techs, and loafs back on D.

The guy who doesn't play D

The guy who won't play off ball.

The guy who can't shoot over 80% from the FT line

I demand Cuban do better on all this!!!

Eveyone bitched and moaned the team needed to get younger and some new faces. They do that and everyone still complains. Team could go 82-0 sweep the playoffs and you would still be pissed. This will turn into you're happy with a .500 record per usual. I'm not but I live in reality that not everything is going to work out. Pistons took a swing and Blake Griffin and the Mavs took one on KP... Ill take the KP swing everyday.


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[Archx]

My personal guess is that they start awful, and Kidd is fired, and new coach inserts spark and re-ignites the team.

Oh man, if they replace Kidd this season, no matter what happens i will call it a successful year

[Mavrelous]

No Bob I'm saying for 20 years that Cuban has had a good track record and things could be worse. If that track record holds the team will still be pretty strong going forward compared to a team like let's say the Wizards.

Dirk played with 2 allstars, Josh Howard and 38 y/o Jason Kidd.
Cuban decided not to pay Nash, and paid Erick Dampier instead.

Cuban found 2 gems in the draft, Dirk and Luka, 2000-2011, he also paid like crazy, but he left A LOT to be desired.

We can argue whether Lively is a good option or not, I think he'll turn out great, Bob doesn't, but the FO performance has been downright abysmal for 2 consecutive years, right after Luka gave one of the best PO serieses by anyone in NBA history.

[Archx]

Cuban found 2 gems in the draft, Dirk and Luka, 2000-2011, he also paid like crazy, but he left A LOT to be desired.

Didn't Cuban buy Mavs 2 years after Dirk was drafted/traded to Mavs? And even Doncic was basically discovered by Nelson while Mark even lobbied against Giannis

I also gave Cuban way too much credit over the years but it is true Mavs became a winning franchise after he bought them.

[Mavrelous]

Cuban found 2 gems in the draft, Dirk and Luka, 2000-2011, he also paid like crazy, but he left A LOT to be desired.

Didn't Cuban buy Mavs 2 years after Dirk was drafted/traded to Mavs? And even Doncic was basically discovered by Nelson while Mark even lobbied against Giannis

I also gave Cuban way too much credit over the years but it is true Mavs became a winning franchise after he bought them.

He did, but don't underestimate what Cuban did to the franchise back in the day, Dallas was a joke franchise and Cuban turned it to one of the most innovative franchises, state of the art facilities and many perks to the players, he spent like a madman, many rules in the previous CBA were made because of Cuban (the BYC rule was done to prevent him for doing a Keith Van Horn S&T like deal), repeater tax was done because Cuban and Dolan didn't let the regular tax stop them, Cuban spearheaded the player empowerment, and sided with the players against the league.
Cuban tried his best to put help around Dirk, he did have some bad decisions, and bad luck (2006 finals officiating scandal and 2007 1st round matchup from hell), with Luka, I see lack of willing to spend combined with horrible decision making, which is a recipe for a disaster.

[ejs78]

Cuban found 2 gems in the draft, Dirk and Luka, 2000-2011, he also paid like crazy, but he left A LOT to be desired.

Didn't Cuban buy Mavs 2 years after Dirk was drafted/traded to Mavs? And even Doncic was basically discovered by Nelson while Mark even lobbied against Giannis

I also gave Cuban way too much credit over the years but it is true Mavs became a winning franchise after he bought them.

Yes Cuban wanted Howard/Williams over Giannis. Again I'm not a Cuban guy and wish he'd shut up like 90% of the time. My non Mavs friends get on me for crapping on him all the time, but as you said it become a winning franchise after he took over even with all the mistakes. We had Quinn Buckner and Jim Clemons as coaches lol. Not a Kidd guy either but the fanboys have no idea how bad those coaches and teams were. Go do research on the triple Js

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[Archx]

Cuban found 2 gems in the draft, Dirk and Luka, 2000-2011, he also paid like crazy, but he left A LOT to be desired.

Didn't Cuban buy Mavs 2 years after Dirk was drafted/traded to Mavs? And even Doncic was basically discovered by Nelson while Mark even lobbied against Giannis

I also gave Cuban way too much credit over the years but it is true Mavs became a winning franchise after he bought them.

Yes Cuban wanted Howard/Williams over Giannis. Again I'm not a Cuban guy and wish he'd shut up like 90% of the time. My non Mavs friends get on me for crapping on him all the time, but as you said it become a winning franchise after he took over even with all the mistakes. We had Quinn Buckner and Jim Clemons as coaches lol. Not a Kidd guy either but the fanboys have no idea how bad those coaches and teams were. Go do research on the triple Js.

Even though i became a fan only after Dirk got here i did read about those stories from earlier. It's sad and funny at the same time lol. I always liked Cuban's approach of "family first" type of owner but... this is a tough bussiness, at the end of the day, winning is all that matters. Even Dirk said he basically got fed up at some point and wanted to leave but luckily then the "2011 team" happened.