Official Spec Thread: Regular Season

[YosemiteSam]

At this point, keep everyone and see if a trade emerges that makes sense mid season that adds value for both teams.

[drsd]

But that simply isn't his true value. he simply isn't all that valuable if team he is on isn't overpowering opponents with offensive versitality & talent.
He is "good" to be on Lakers with Davis, Lebron,KCP, Kuzma etc and win ring by just being one of people off bench to sometimes do something, but often do nothing ( and nobody will notice nor care).

but when he is in position where it's expecet for him to be more than 5 ppg, 3 apg, 1 rpg player and actually get something tengable, he simply - can't.

For me it is an interesting thought experiment: would I trade Anthony for Caruso?

Both have the capacity to be an important bench player on a winning team. But the skills offered are "WILDLY" different.

Anthony is a guy that can come in off the bench and turn a 16 point deficit down to a 9-pointer by a mini offensive explosion.

In contract, Caruso is a bench player that can be brought in to hold a 10-point lead whilst the starters get some in-game rest.

Personally I want bench guards to be lightning -bugs, not defensive stoppers. So no: I would not make this trade. I see more value in Anthony. My conclusion includes that neither should be NBA starters.

As an aside, it is for this same reason I value M-Wagner over Bitadze in the normal bench rotation at the C.

[Skybox]

"Buy and Hold" works for Real Estate and Mutual Funds...but not for cars, boats, and undeveloped players. Parking guys on the bench depreciates them more than letting them make a few mistakes to learn from. Trades don't have to be bad trades...ORL fans and, maybe, front office seem more worried about making a mistake than making progress.

too much 3D chess, "crazy like a fox" stuff here and not enough boldly deciding "let's get better players" or at least better fitting players as a strategy. People pointing to AG as a function of patience...he would have excelled in DEN as a rookie, because they put him in the right role. I don't think his skill set was that mysterious to anyone but we choose to watch our guys grow like a plant. I don't mind our guys excelling elsewhere due to fit...I just don't like waiting and paying them for years before we tap out.

It’s not buy and hold, it’s develop a contributor to a winning environment and raise their value. Doing that with a player on a rookie scale contract who becomes expendable is where teams secure the best value.

Boston built a winning team and then continued to add cheap young guys who could help sustain that. Rozier, Grant and Robert Williams, Neismith, Pritchard, etc. That expanded depth is what not only helped them become contenders, it’s what has allowed them to make consolidation trades to add Brogdon, Holiday and Porzingis.

GSW have done the same with their youth and depth they mismanaged Wiseman, but they turned Poole into a player who could help win a championship, and then into CP3.

FVV and Simons both developed off the bench on winning teams and became players in demand.

Once a team shows they can win it raises the floor value of a lot of their players because they no longer exist entirely on potential, they have some results to their name.

Edit - the real estate metaphor is fun if you consider that we own the neighbourhood, and we’re developing blocks independently. The more we can produce a consistent theme and harmony amongst each block the more we can increase perceived value of the whole.

I don't disagree with your theory...but all of the guys you mentioned were patiently developing behind GREAT starters on winning teams. We don't even know who our best guys are yet (in our backcourt). It's a lot more obvious to slowly nurture kids off the bench when you've got them pegged behind Dame or Steph. IMO, we should make a bold move for at least one legit strong starting guard and then play with all of the others without hamstringing Paolo & Franz' development or ability to win...it would be real easy for Paolo to start iso scoring 30ppg while we win 30 games until he gets fed up.

[Fortune Teller]

"Buy and Hold" works for Real Estate and Mutual Funds...but not for cars, boats, and undeveloped players. Parking guys on the bench depreciates them more than letting them make a few mistakes to learn from. Trades don't have to be bad trades...ORL fans and, maybe, front office seem more worried about making a mistake than making progress.

too much 3D chess, "crazy like a fox" stuff here and not enough boldly deciding "let's get better players" or at least better fitting players as a strategy. People pointing to AG as a function of patience...he would have excelled in DEN as a rookie, because they put him in the right role. I don't think his skill set was that mysterious to anyone but we choose to watch our guys grow like a plant. I don't mind our guys excelling elsewhere due to fit...I just don't like waiting and paying them for years before we tap out.

It’s not buy and hold, it’s develop a contributor to a winning environment and raise their value. Doing that with a player on a rookie scale contract who becomes expendable is where teams secure the best value.

Boston built a winning team and then continued to add cheap young guys who could help sustain that. Rozier, Grant and Robert Williams, Neismith, Pritchard, etc. That expanded depth is what not only helped them become contenders, it’s what has allowed them to make consolidation trades to add Brogdon, Holiday and Porzingis.

GSW have done the same with their youth and depth they mismanaged Wiseman, but they turned Poole into a player who could help win a championship, and then into CP3.

FVV and Simons both developed off the bench on winning teams and became players in demand.

Once a team shows they can win it raises the floor value of a lot of their players because they no longer exist entirely on potential, they have some results to their name.

Edit - the real estate metaphor is fun if you consider that we own the neighbourhood, and we’re developing blocks independently. The more we can produce a consistent theme and harmony amongst each block the more we can increase perceived value of the whole.

I don't disagree with your theory...but all of the guys you mentioned were patiently developing behind GREAT starters on winning teams. We don't even know who our best guys are yet (in our backcourt). It's a lot more obvious to slowly nurture kids off the bench when you've got them pegged behind Dame or Steph. IMO, we should make a bold move for at least one legit strong starting guard and then play with all of the others without hamstringing Paolo & Franz' development or ability to win...it would be real easy for Paolo to start iso scoring 30ppg while we win 30 games until he gets fed up.

100%.

I'm surprised how many posters are content with the notion that we had two lottery picks and used them on projected third-stringers who might start contributing near the end of their rookie deals. We aren't the Celtics or the Warriors. We need talent. Despite the improvement last season, we still had one of the worst records in the league, and were one of the worst shooting teams in the league.

Rather than using the #6 pick on a project who can't shoot, they should have traded the pick, or even both picks, for a solid starter/contributor. They should still consolidate their glut of guards and acquire a vet SG who can contribute now. The idea that Paolo and Franz aren't ready for that yet is ridiculous. That isn't "speeding up the timeline," as Welt tries to gaslight us into believing. Paolo and Franz are on their own timelines, and if they're still watching Fultz and Suggs bricking threes going into Year 3 and Year 4 of their careers, they're looking for the exit sign.

[Skybox]

It’s not buy and hold, it’s develop a contributor to a winning environment and raise their value. Doing that with a player on a rookie scale contract who becomes expendable is where teams secure the best value.

Boston built a winning team and then continued to add cheap young guys who could help sustain that. Rozier, Grant and Robert Williams, Neismith, Pritchard, etc. That expanded depth is what not only helped them become contenders, it’s what has allowed them to make consolidation trades to add Brogdon, Holiday and Porzingis.

GSW have done the same with their youth and depth they mismanaged Wiseman, but they turned Poole into a player who could help win a championship, and then into CP3.

FVV and Simons both developed off the bench on winning teams and became players in demand.

Once a team shows they can win it raises the floor value of a lot of their players because they no longer exist entirely on potential, they have some results to their name.

Edit - the real estate metaphor is fun if you consider that we own the neighbourhood, and we’re developing blocks independently. The more we can produce a consistent theme and harmony amongst each block the more we can increase perceived value of the whole.

I don't disagree with your theory...but all of the guys you mentioned were patiently developing behind GREAT starters on winning teams. We don't even know who our best guys are yet (in our backcourt). It's a lot more obvious to slowly nurture kids off the bench when you've got them pegged behind Dame or Steph. IMO, we should make a bold move for at least one legit strong starting guard and then play with all of the others without hamstringing Paolo & Franz' development or ability to win...it would be real easy for Paolo to start iso scoring 30ppg while we win 30 games until he gets fed up.

100%.

I'm surprised how many posters are content with the notion that we had two lottery picks and used them on projected third-stringers who might start contributing near the end of their rookie deals. We aren't the Celtics or the Warriors. We need talent. Despite the improvement last season, we still had one of the worst records in the league, and were one of the worst shooting teams in the league.

Rather than using the #6 pick on a project who can't shoot, they should have traded the pick, or even both picks, for a solid starter/contributor. They should still consolidate their glut of guards and acquire a vet SG who can contribute now. The idea that Paolo and Franz aren't ready for that yet is ridiculous. That isn't "speeding up the timeline," as Welt tries to gaslight us into believing. Paolo and Franz are on their own timelines, and if they're still watching Fultz and Suggs bricking threes going into Year 3 and Year 4 of their careers, they're looking for the exit sign.

“Speeding up the timeline” and even “skipping steps” both sound like good things to me

[eyriq]

It’s not buy and hold, it’s develop a contributor to a winning environment and raise their value. Doing that with a player on a rookie scale contract who becomes expendable is where teams secure the best value.

Boston built a winning team and then continued to add cheap young guys who could help sustain that. Rozier, Grant and Robert Williams, Neismith, Pritchard, etc. That expanded depth is what not only helped them become contenders, it’s what has allowed them to make consolidation trades to add Brogdon, Holiday and Porzingis.

GSW have done the same with their youth and depth they mismanaged Wiseman, but they turned Poole into a player who could help win a championship, and then into CP3.

FVV and Simons both developed off the bench on winning teams and became players in demand.

Once a team shows they can win it raises the floor value of a lot of their players because they no longer exist entirely on potential, they have some results to their name.

Edit - the real estate metaphor is fun if you consider that we own the neighbourhood, and we’re developing blocks independently. The more we can produce a consistent theme and harmony amongst each block the more we can increase perceived value of the whole.

I don't disagree with your theory...but all of the guys you mentioned were patiently developing behind GREAT starters on winning teams. We don't even know who our best guys are yet (in our backcourt). It's a lot more obvious to slowly nurture kids off the bench when you've got them pegged behind Dame or Steph. IMO, we should make a bold move for at least one legit strong starting guard and then play with all of the others without hamstringing Paolo & Franz' development or ability to win...it would be real easy for Paolo to start iso scoring 30ppg while we win 30 games until he gets fed up.

100%.

I'm surprised how many posters are content with the notion that we had two lottery picks and used them on projected third-stringers who might start contributing near the end of their rookie deals. We aren't the Celtics or the Warriors. We need talent. Despite the improvement last season, we still had one of the worst records in the league, and were one of the worst shooting teams in the league.

Rather than using the #6 pick on a project who can't shoot, they should have traded the pick, or even both picks, for a solid starter/contributor. They should still consolidate their glut of guards and acquire a vet SG who can contribute now. The idea that Paolo and Franz aren't ready for that yet is ridiculous. That isn't "speeding up the timeline," as Welt tries to gaslight us into believing. Paolo and Franz are on their own timelines, and if they're still watching Fultz and Suggs bricking threes going into Year 3 and Year 4 of their careers, they're looking for the exit sign.

You nailed why we shouldn't expect the team to bury lottery picks. So don't expect it.

[eyriq]

Paolo's leap defensively looks legit

[bigdogdylan5]

What are everyone’s thoughts on staggering Paolo and Franz making sure one of them is on the court at all times? I thought this roster was really screaming for it as Wagner with that 2nd unit looks really intriguing next to Isaac. This last game has me rethinking that with how good the chemistry looks between Paolo and Franz

[drsd]

What are everyone’s thoughts on staggering Paolo and Franz making sure one of them is on the court at all times? I thought this roster was really screaming for it as Wagner with that 2nd unit looks really intriguing next to Isaac. This last game has me rethinking that with how good the chemistry looks between Paolo and Franz

Well: I love M-Wagner getting WWE minutes to go Full thug's life. Gotta find playing time there.

[eyriq]

What are everyone’s thoughts on staggering Paolo and Franz making sure one of them is on the court at all times? I thought this roster was really screaming for it as Wagner with that 2nd unit looks really intriguing next to Isaac. This last game has me rethinking that with how good the chemistry looks between Paolo and Franz

I'm right there with you. Staggering them makes sense but the cost of sacrificing the synergy between them needs to be accounted for. Really an interesting development. If you don't stagger I can see even more weight falling on Cole's shoulders. Inconsistency and poor defense are the turnoffs with him (for me) but he's looked stellar.

I'd be curious to see WCJ increase his role and anchor the bench unit like Franz did last season. Black, Cole, Ingles, Isaac, WCJ could cook.

A nice 9 man rotation.

[eyriq]

Ideally, our core lineups could be;

Fultz|Suggs|Franz|Paolo|WCJ
Fultz|Cole|Franz|Paolo|Isaac
Black|Cole|Franz|Paolo|Isaac
Black|Cole|Ingles|Isaac|WCJ

[jonbob17]

I was just listening to the Vecenie podcast talk about the Magic/NO game and he was gushing about Suggs defense, and was also pointing out good defensive possessions Paolo had against Zion, and how much he likes this Magic team.

[eyriq]

I was just listening to the Vecenie podcast talk about the Magic/NO game and he was gushing about Suggs defense, and was also pointing out good defensive possessions Paolo had against Zion, and how much he likes this Magic team.

Seems he knows ball

[tooler]

A little stagger is fine to mix things up but I don't think we need to yank Franz at 6 minutes or whatever like last season.

[RookieStar]

What are everyone’s thoughts on staggering Paolo and Franz making sure one of them is on the court at all times? I thought this roster was really screaming for it as Wagner with that 2nd unit looks really intriguing next to Isaac. This last game has me rethinking that with how good the chemistry looks between Paolo and Franz

I dunno... personally Im expecting Coach Mos to do wht he did last season and sit Franz in with 6mins remaining then put him back for Paolo near the end.

I agree though that we need at least one of them in the court all the time.

[HighPack]

Magic waived D.J. Wilson, signed Miye Oni.

[KillMonger]

Read on Twitter

[Optimus_Steel]

A little stagger is fine to mix things up but I don't think we need to yank Franz at 6 minutes or whatever like last season.

That was done out of necessity because of injuries. We are deeper this year.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using RealGM mobile app

[SOUL]

My friend started a campaign in basketball-gm (basketball sim) and look how Franz's career turned out...

[eyriq]

My friend started a campaign in basketball-gm (basketball sim) and look how Franz's career turned out...

Wow, that is fire. 2 rings, finals MVP both times. 8x scoring champ, 16x all-star, 13 x all-nba 1st team. 27/8/6 on .48/.38/.91 shooting. May we live in this world.