Who Should Be The 5th Starter?

[-Jragon-]

It's easier to get on fire when you're getting a high volume of shots while your in.. that's Dame's trick to begin with... imagine KM and Beas just going ham and getting on fire and extending leads instead of losing them while the other team is still tired from.chasing the 1st unit. Tell KM that too... he gets to go against the other teams worse guys or their tired 1st unit guys while his legs are fresh... imagine the highlight videos you can make.

[fansinceforever]

Just saw an interesting idea that is crazy enough that it might work. .. hmmm.. this internet dude said something like this:

1st unit
Dame
MB
Jae
GA
BROOK

2nd unit
Cam
Beas
KM
AJJ or Rolo
Bobby

Sub them out in a full line change like the 80s Cavs ornsome Hockey team -- this would actually bring continuity/ same guys running plays with the same guys. Let the 1st team play Lillard /Stotts pick and roll ball and the 2nd team play Fear the Deer Karl/Ray/Big dog/Cassell off ball screens ball. Teams will feel like we have 2 starting lineups that have 2 different teams with different sets of plays to defend Set A and Set B ... how will they prepare for that? Both teams have some All Stars /borderline all stars.

I know it's crazy but it's pretty creative and probably would save wear and tear while being effective. Are Beasely/KM REALLY going to be happy watching our 2 all world players play keep away? Or do we let them Manu off the bench and score even more points and get more shots?

How to sell it to KM? Tell him in those 22 minutes he and Beas get 90% of the shots... with the 1st unit you get 30 min and 20% of the shots

Interesting idea. I don't know if Khris goes for a bench role if he's fully healthy though. Tough sell.

[-Jragon-]

Just saw an interesting idea that is crazy enough that it might work. .. hmmm.. this internet dude said something like this:

1st unit
Dame
MB
Jae
GA
BROOK

2nd unit
Cam
Beas
KM
AJJ or Rolo
Bobby

Sub them out in a full line change like the 80s Cavs ornsome Hockey team -- this would actually bring continuity/ same guys running plays with the same guys. Let the 1st team play Lillard /Stotts pick and roll ball and the 2nd team play Fear the Deer Karl/Ray/Big dog/Cassell off ball screens ball. Teams will feel like we have 2 starting lineups that have 2 different teams with different sets of plays to defend Set A and Set B ... how will they prepare for that? Both teams have some All Stars /borderline all stars.

I know it's crazy but it's pretty creative and probably would save wear and tear while being effective. Are Beasely/KM REALLY going to be happy watching our 2 all world players play keep away? Or do we let them Manu off the bench and score even more points and get more shots?

How to sell it to KM? Tell him in those 22 minutes he and Beas get 90% of the shots... with the 1st unit you get 30 min and 20% of the shots

Interesting idea. I don't know if Khris goes for a bench role if he's fully healthy though. Tough sell.

Right we have to sell it to him with logic... he has a great chance for a ring either way this year.. want to be healthy all year? Get crazy hot getting 55% of the shots while you're in? Go against tired starters or young dumb backups and make ridiculous highlights?

[-Jragon-]

Just saw an interesting idea that is crazy enough that it might work. .. hmmm.. this internet dude said something like this:

1st unit
Dame
MB
Jae
GA
BROOK

2nd unit
Cam
Beas
KM
AJJ or Rolo
Bobby

Sub them out in a full line change like the 80s Cavs ornsome Hockey team -- this would actually bring continuity/ same guys running plays with the same guys. Let the 1st team play Lillard /Stotts pick and roll ball and the 2nd team play Fear the Deer Karl/Ray/Big dog/Cassell off ball screens ball. Teams will feel like we have 2 starting lineups that have 2 different teams with different sets of plays to defend Set A and Set B ... how will they prepare for that? Both teams have some All Stars /borderline all stars.

I know it's crazy but it's pretty creative and probably would save wear and tear while being effective. Are Beasely/KM REALLY going to be happy watching our 2 all world players play keep away? Or do we let them Manu off the bench and score even more points and get more shots?

How to sell it to KM? Tell him in those 22 minutes he and Beas get 90% of the shots... with the 1st unit you get 30 min and 20% of the shots

Interesting idea. I don't know if Khris goes for a bench role if he's fully healthy though. Tough sell.

Plus that whole B team offense will be designed all for getting you and Beas open where you want it like how Cassel got Ray and Big Dog the ball.. Payne can do that role

[-Jragon-]

It's verbal judo.. you have to appeal to their narcissism.. realistically if he gets the ball early in the game with the starters and misses... he won't get the ball for like 6 min straight and he'll get mad and lead to worse days and overcompensation/injuries

[-Jragon-]

It's verbal judo.. you have to appeal to their narcissism.. realistically if he gets the ball early in the game with the starters and misses... he won't get the ball for like 6 min straight and he'll get mad and lead to worse days and overcompensation/injuries

He says he won't get mad if he doesn't get the ball but we're not stupid, are we

[Milbucks96]

Play your best players with your best players, it’s not rocket science. Crowder is a 4 anyway and is probably a worst perimeter defender than Khris right now.

[-Jragon-]

Or... tell Beas and KM they get 22 min on the B team but they have to try to race to 25 points in those minutes. Race down on offense, D
don't let the shot clock get below 15 before you chuck one.

F it, give them AJJ and Thanos too just fast break drive/kickout every play so that when Dame/GA get back in the other team is exhausted and we punish them.

We had some nice bench teams on FTD when Charlie Bell (pizza party) was out there leading that. Its also more fun for the starters to watch and have fun with when the B team gets hot -- just leave them on longer as the reward.

If we don't do something like this we will have several pouty performances from Beas and KM where they end up like 1 for 8 and annoyed

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, the bench has plenty of shooting/scoring between Payne, Bobby, and whomever isn't starting between Pat/Marjon/Beasley. Khris ain't coming off the bench and it has nothing to do with his ego. He's the best 3rd option in the league. No need to get cute with lineups when we should be staggering those 3 guys plenty in the regular season anyways.

[-Jragon-]

Play your best players with your best players, it’s not rocket science. Crowder is a 4 anyway and is probably a worst perimeter defender than Khris right now.

Besides -- just because you said so -- is there any team where it worked having 4 shot hungry dudes on the same starting lineup together and it worked?

[RRyder823]

Only on this board could we have arguably the best 3rd option in the league and have the response to that ideal situation be "let's move him to the bench and only play him 20-25 minutes"

Middletons overall usage might go down with Dame/Giannis but his shots per game isn't going to drop nearly as much as a few seem to think. He simply isn't going to have to work as hard for those shots

And when exactly did Middleton become this absolute alpha black hole that needed 25 shots per game or he was pouting?
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[Prez]

Play your best players with your best players, it’s not rocket science. Crowder is a 4 anyway and is probably a worst perimeter defender than Khris right now.

Besides -- just because you said so -- is there any team where it worked having 4 shot hungry dudes on the same starting lineup together and it worked?

I mean it kinda depends on how we define “shot hungry” but…2016 Cavs with LeBron/Kyrie/Love/JR Smith?

[-Jragon-]

Good points... it was just someone's idea online to have KM be our Manu... I developed it out more as a crazy scenario that zero NBA teams employ now. I do remember when those Cavs teams with Mark Price and Smitts would do a full line change .. I thought it was kind of smart but I'm also an overthinker

[MVP2110]

I actually think our 2nd unit will have enough scoring. Payne & Bobby are each good offensive players, Pat can shoot, Jae can hit an open 3, we'll see if MarJon develops more, and hopefully if Beasley goes back to the 2nd unit he can cook there

[RRyder823]

Good points... it was just someone's idea online to have KM be our Manu... I developed it out more as a crazy scenario that zero NBA teams employ now. I do remember when those Cavs teams with Mark Price and Smitts would do a full line change .. I thought it was kind of smart but I'm also an overthinker

I get all that but turning Khris into our Manu isn't what you where describing. (I'm actually not opposed to the proposition of bringing him in off the bench to start games)

Manu played starter minutes, played a ton of those minutes alongside Parker/Duncan and closed out games. He was a starter who simply happened to come off the bench to help give a boost early in games when substitutions started.

What you were describing is a strait up second unit player that would play 22 minutes a game in order to not have to play him with Dame/Giannis. One of the big draws of Dame is to have Middleton on the court with the two big dogs

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[-Jragon-]

Good points... it was just someone's idea online to have KM be our Manu... I developed it out more as a crazy scenario that zero NBA teams employ now. I do remember when those Cavs teams with Mark Price and Smitts would do a full line change .. I thought it was kind of smart but I'm also an overthinker

I get all that but turning Khris into our Manu isn't what you where describing. (I'm actually not opposed to the proposition of bringing him in off the bench to start games)

Manu played starter minutes, played a ton of those minutes alongside Parker/Duncan and closed out games. He was a starter who simply happened to come off the bench to help give a boost early in games when substitutions started.

What you were describing is a strait up second unit player that would play 22 minutes a game in order to not have to play him with Dame/Giannis. One of the big draws of Dame is to have Middleton on the court with the two big dogs

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So that's you're closing lineup.. but he's red hot from all the shots he took and content to step in for Mj or Jae to be a spot up shooter.

Idk.. it's a tweaking and up to Stotts to keep everyone happy shots-wise

[RRyder823]

Good points... it was just someone's idea online to have KM be our Manu... I developed it out more as a crazy scenario that zero NBA teams employ now. I do remember when those Cavs teams with Mark Price and Smitts would do a full line change .. I thought it was kind of smart but I'm also an overthinker

I get all that but turning Khris into our Manu isn't what you where describing. (I'm actually not opposed to the proposition of bringing him in off the bench to start games)

Manu played starter minutes, played a ton of those minutes alongside Parker/Duncan and closed out games. He was a starter who simply happened to come off the bench to help give a boost early in games when substitutions started.

What you were describing is a strait up second unit player that would play 22 minutes a game in order to not have to play him with Dame/Giannis. One of the big draws of Dame is to have Middleton on the court with the two big dogs

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So that's you're closing lineup.. but he's red hot from all the shots he took and content to step in for Mj or Jae to be a spot up shooter.

Idk.. it's a tweaking and up to Stotts to keep everyone happy shots-wise

????? I understand you're idea is to completely sub out and back in entire lineups (I think that's a bad idea but for sake of discussion in the scenerio you pit out there we'll go with it) but I'm confused on why you'd have a problem with a red-hot Middleton shooting the ball?

If you want to use Middleton in a Manu role that simply means bringing him in off the bench to give a boost halfway through the 1st quarter. It doesn't mean he's only playing 20 minutes or never plays with Dame/Giannis. Or playing limited minutes with either

I'm also confused why this a perceived issue. It's not like Middleton is some ball dominate player who can't, never has or isn't accustomed to playing off ball.

It really seems like your trying to fix an issue that doesn't exist

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[-Jragon-]

I get all that but turning Khris into our Manu isn't what you where describing. (I'm actually not opposed to the proposition of bringing him in off the bench to start games)

Manu played starter minutes, played a ton of those minutes alongside Parker/Duncan and closed out games. He was a starter who simply happened to come off the bench to help give a boost early in games when substitutions started.

What you were describing is a strait up second unit player that would play 22 minutes a game in order to not have to play him with Dame/Giannis. One of the big draws of Dame is to have Middleton on the court with the two big dogs

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

So that's you're closing lineup.. but he's red hot from all the shots he took and content to step in for Mj or Jae to be a spot up shooter.

Idk.. it's a tweaking and up to Stotts to keep everyone happy shots-wise

????? I understand you're idea is to completely sub out and back in entire lineups (I think that's a bad idea but for sake of discussion in the scenerio you pit out there we'll go with it) but I'm confused on why you'd have a problem with a red-hot Middleton shooting the ball?

If you want to use Middleton in a Manu role that simply means bringing him in off the bench to give a boost halfway through the 1st quarter. It doesn't mean he's only playing 20 minutes or never plays with Dame/Giannis. Or playing limited minutes with either

I'm also confused why this a perceived issue. It's not like Middleton is some ball dominate player who can't, never has or isn't accustomed to playing off ball.

It really seems like your trying to fix an issue that doesn't exist

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You just defined being an overthinker which I admitted lol it's just ideas outside of the box

[RRyder823]

So that's you're closing lineup.. but he's red hot from all the shots he took and content to step in for Mj or Jae to be a spot up shooter.

Idk.. it's a tweaking and up to Stotts to keep everyone happy shots-wise

????? I understand you're idea is to completely sub out and back in entire lineups (I think that's a bad idea but for sake of discussion in the scenerio you pit out there we'll go with it) but I'm confused on why you'd have a problem with a red-hot Middleton shooting the ball?

If you want to use Middleton in a Manu role that simply means bringing him in off the bench to give a boost halfway through the 1st quarter. It doesn't mean he's only playing 20 minutes or never plays with Dame/Giannis. Or playing limited minutes with either

I'm also confused why this a perceived issue. It's not like Middleton is some ball dominate player who can't, never has or isn't accustomed to playing off ball.

It really seems like your trying to fix an issue that doesn't exist

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You just defined being an overthinker which I admitted lol it's just ideas outside of the box

Fair enough. Carry on

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[KidA24]

Guess it's my turn to zig when everybody else is zagging. I think MarJon is at his best when he's aggressive trying to get to his shot with 2-3 dribbles. I don't want him doing a lot with the ball but I do want him looking to score -- take the open 3, or look to get downhill, either to the rim or into his 15 foot pull up, every time he gets the ball. He's got a long, explosive first step, and he's smooth rising up when he's going toward the rim. He could be a real weapon against a rotating defense but he's got to *always* be ready to attack. I also think his ball-handling has improved to the point where he's got his head up and can do simple dump offs if he draws too much defense to allow him to get his shot. FWIW, I think in time he's going to be a good enough one-on-one scorer to punish mismatches, either by blowing by bigs or punishing guards in the post, but that's for later.

Not that his skills are perfect at this point, he still has work to do, but his biggest problem right now is inconsistent mindset/confidence.

Ideal world, Giannis Dame pick n roll.
Midds is near corner.
Brook is opposite, above the break.
Marjon is far corner.

The biggest question is, can Marjon make that quarter second decision: Shot, Attack, Pass.... When that cross court pass comes from Giannis