Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

[IceColdCubano]

if lowry plays this much there wont be any left in the tank for the playoffs. realistically i think he should play 15 minutes whether starting or closing that's up to the coach to decide. believe me in his case age is indeed a factor

Every minute that old and slow potato is out on the floor is another minute that Bam & Jimmy will have to rotate over to help prevent the guard from penetrating into the paint. I am absolutely done with this cat, he is cooked, done, put a fork in him. Those 7-9 assist hell get you will mean nothing!!! when it comes at him allowing 20 points from the point guard he is guarding.

To be clear this isn't the rotation I want but the one I think the team is currently leading with.

Personally I want the rotation to be.

JRich(22mpg)/Lowry(18mpg)
Herro(32mpg)/Robinson(16mpg)
Butler(32mpg)/Jaquez(26mpg)
Highsmith(18mpg)/Martin(28mpg)
Bam(32mpg)/Bryant(16mpg)

Closing lineup
Herro
Jaquez
Butler
Martin
Bam

I like your rotations, in-fact I think if you asked Spo before training camp and pre-season Id bet that's what he would pencil in on the board with perhaps Kevin Love at PF. Also doubtful that JJJ will be in a closing lineup as a rookie, hed have to have the type of first year that puts him in top 3 nomination for rookie of the year.

Kevin Love will play this year one way or another, a solid 15 minutes at least, whether thats starting or coming from the bench its left to be seen.

I also do not like Martin at the PF spot, this is were Love will get his backup minutes, You may even see some Jovic minutes even if its 10 minutes there. The odd man out is probable either Jaquez or Duncan, you cannot play Duncan at the guard spot, and on defense he is miserable anywhere you put him. Caleb is far better defending the SG spot and JJJ plays the SF spot good enough. If you were to insert a motion shooter in the back up lineups, Swider is the better fit since hes 6'-9" and can be put at the PF spot.

We really have a lot of wings this year, way too many good ones were its going to be really hard.
after Jimmy(32m), Caleb(30m), Love(15m) that's 75-77 minutes of forwards that are guarantied out of 96 minutes.
That gives you another 19 minutes remaining to feature one of - Jovic, JJJ, Highsmith, Swider, Duncan, Cain

This means the team has to make a decision on who plays the back up SG minutes either - Duncan or JJJ.
and who gets the remaining 19-20 minutes of forward minutes either - Highsmith, Swider, Jovic, Cain or one of the two from above not getting SG back up minutes.

[Hoops3355]

Well this season should be fun. We should do better in the regular season given the depth we've got. If we can make it through the season without and catastrophic injuries it should pay dividends by getting Jimmy more rest while also bleeding some of these young guys.

Fully expect us to be super active at the deadline as there's bound to be some team that just implodes and decide to reboot it.

[IceColdCubano]

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Sounds like JJJ is still out with the groin injury however: Caleb, Jovic, & RJ Hampton are back.

[twix2500]

I was literally wondering could the Heat gotten a 1st round pick to swap Porter Jr for Duncan

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[AirP.]

I was literally wondering could the Heat gotten a 1st round pick to swap Porter Jr for Duncan.

2 2nds isn't bad, Oladipo back to Houston!

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[AirP.]

Listening to the Lowe Post and hearing the current offer not accepted for Harden is a 1st, 1 swap and expiring's. If a championship is the goal for Miami, I think giving up more than that would easily be worth the price in Butler's window. Lowry and Robinson's contracts are withing 1 1/2 mil of Harden and Tucker so now you're talking about draft assets and maybe expanding the trade to give Miami a much better shot at a championship this season. Harden goes to PG and Tucker goes to a role-player on limited minute defender.

You start Harden with Richardson, Butler, Love and Bam, tell Herro he has a green light at all times as the scoring 6th man with possibly Martin, Tucker, Bryant, JJJ, Jovic and Highsmith.

If you want to just try to outscore teams you can run Harden, Herro, Butler, Martin and Bam on the court.

In 11 playoff games where Harden was a 2nd option, 9 of 11 games he had 6+ assists, 4 of those 10+ assists. Scoring wise he had 4 20+ point games and 2 of those were 40+, one of those winning in Boston without Embiid.

It's a gamble but it gives you more talent for more wins in the regular season making the playoffs a little easier and it makes Bam and Herro the #3 and #4 option in the playoffs with a great passing PG.

Yes, I'd give up 2 1sts and a swap without thinking about it, how many 1sts is worth giving your franchise a strong chance at winning a championship?

[IceColdCubano]

Listening to the Lowe Post and hearing the current offer not accepted for Harden is a 1st, 1 swap and expiring's. If a championship is the goal for Miami, I think giving up more than that would easily be worth the price in Butler's window. Lowry and Robinson's contracts are withing 1 1/2 mil of Harden and Tucker so now you're talking about draft assets and maybe expanding the trade to give Miami a much better shot at a championship this season. Harden goes to PG and Tucker goes to a role-player on limited minute defender.

You start Harden with Richardson, Butler, Love and Bam, tell Herro he has a green light at all times as the scoring 6th man with possibly Martin, Tucker, Bryant, JJJ, Jovic and Highsmith.

If you want to just try to outscore teams you can run Harden, Herro, Butler, Martin and Bam on the court.

In 11 playoff games where Harden was a 2nd option, 9 of 11 games he had 6+ assists, 4 of those 10+ assists. Scoring wise he had 4 20+ point games and 2 of those were 40+, one of those winning in Boston without Embiid.

It's a gamble but it gives you more talent for more wins in the regular season making the playoffs a little easier and it makes Bam and Herro the #3 and #4 option in the playoffs with a great passing PG.

Yes, I'd give up 2 1sts and a swap without thinking about it, how many 1sts is worth giving your franchise a strong chance at winning a championship?

This FO is unwilling to give up that much for a chance, and its not a strong chance. There aren't any players on the board you could have traded for to get you a strong chance, those are the Steph's, Durants, Jokic level players. We were willing to squeak a bit on a Lillard, but he still had 4 years left so you could still potentially hold value in being able to flip him down the line if it doesn't work out. You don't have that with Harden unfortunately, and he doesn't have a great track record to make our FO fell warm and fuzzy to go for it. I don't think we can debate he wouldnt help a bit, he still was a great ball distributor even in games his shot was off.

Miami will play with one foot in the contention Jimmy window and one foot looking at whats next for our future. They know big changes are coming, the cap may go up significantly and some players may want out of teams, they need every asset they have to swing for the bigger deals, the 28-30 year old stars they can pair with Bam & Herro to give us an additional 6-8 year contention window.

What you see is what you get, at the trade deadline you might see Lowry or Lowry and Duncan + 1 FRP get sent for a middle of the line player, not a star but also slightly top echelon role player that will give us something of need to perhaps improve our odds, if that trade is available. Jimmy's window is beholden on how much Bam & Herro have improved, and how much more we can squeeze our role players to perform, and what Jovic and JJJ can produce in this year and the next.

[AirP.]

Spoiler:

Listening to the Lowe Post and hearing the current offer not accepted for Harden is a 1st, 1 swap and expiring's. If a championship is the goal for Miami, I think giving up more than that would easily be worth the price in Butler's window. Lowry and Robinson's contracts are withing 1 1/2 mil of Harden and Tucker so now you're talking about draft assets and maybe expanding the trade to give Miami a much better shot at a championship this season. Harden goes to PG and Tucker goes to a role-player on limited minute defender.

You start Harden with Richardson, Butler, Love and Bam, tell Herro he has a green light at all times as the scoring 6th man with possibly Martin, Tucker, Bryant, JJJ, Jovic and Highsmith.

If you want to just try to outscore teams you can run Harden, Herro, Butler, Martin and Bam on the court.

In 11 playoff games where Harden was a 2nd option, 9 of 11 games he had 6+ assists, 4 of those 10+ assists. Scoring wise he had 4 20+ point games and 2 of those were 40+, one of those winning in Boston without Embiid.

It's a gamble but it gives you more talent for more wins in the regular season making the playoffs a little easier and it makes Bam and Herro the #3 and #4 option in the playoffs with a great passing PG.

Yes, I'd give up 2 1sts and a swap without thinking about it, how many 1sts is worth giving your franchise a strong chance at winning a championship?

This FO is unwilling to give up that much for a chance, and its not a strong chance. There aren't any players on the board you could have traded for to get you a strong chance, those are the Steph's, Durants, Jokic level players. We were willing to squeak a bit on a Lillard, but he still had 4 years left so you could still potentially hold value in being able to flip him down the line if it doesn't work out. You don't have that with Harden unfortunately, and he doesn't have a great track record to make our FO fell warm and fuzzy to go for it. I don't think we can debate he wouldnt help a bit, he still was a great ball distributor even in games his shot was off.

Miami will play with one foot in the contention Jimmy window and one foot looking at whats next for our future. They know big changes are coming, the cap may go up significantly and some players may want out of teams, they need every asset they have to swing for the bigger deals, the 28-30 year old stars they can pair with Bam & Herro to give us an additional 6-8 year contention window.

What you see is what you get, at the trade deadline you might see Lowry or Lowry and Duncan + 1 FRP get sent for a middle of the line player, not a star but also slightly top echelon role player that will give us something of need to perhaps improve our odds, if that trade is available. Jimmy's window is beholden on how much Bam & Herro have improved, and how much more we can squeeze our role players to perform, and what Jovic and JJJ can produce in this year and the next.

It's a much stronger chance then what the current roster has.

It's quite possible they waste Butler's window by not going all in and then Miami is not only looking for a star to replace Butler to possibly get to where they currently are while also looking for that 2nd star to have a real shot at a future championship.

It really feels like most of this board thinks what Butler is doing for Miami is easily replaceable, it's not, they've been looking for another guy like him and haven't gotten one in nearly half a decade since acquiring Butler for peanuts. Harden has the ability to be an MVP candidate if given the #1 option role vs being more of a pure PG like he was with the 76ers and Embiid, his shots have dropped to around 14 per36 but he's still highly efficient at over 60% TS% and dishing out 10+ assists a night.

Winning a championship is hard and you should go all in to give yourself the best chance. Before Miami was lucky enough to force Wade out to sell Butler on Miami's environment, this team was going nowhere after LeBron left, it's quite possible that time is coming again unless Miami can find another top-level player in the next few years. Miami's made the finals twice the last 4 years and each time they made and lost the finals they've let key players for those runs walk. I think Vincent and Strus are very replaceable as players, but both contributed great games here and there to make that run possible.

One other thing I've found out since following the team, this FO isn't as aggressive as I once thought. I thought they did everything they could to try to win championships, that's doesn't seem the case. The more I watch FOs keep looking past Butler's talent and are more interested in their younger players, the more I think LeBron was 100% right to start doing short term contracts to force NBA FOs to build for the now instead of the future and with that, got his teams championships.

[IceColdCubano]

Listening to the Lowe Post and hearing the current offer not accepted for Harden is a 1st, 1 swap and expiring's. If a championship is the goal for Miami, I think giving up more than that would easily be worth the price in Butler's window. Lowry and Robinson's contracts are withing 1 1/2 mil of Harden and Tucker so now you're talking about draft assets and maybe expanding the trade to give Miami a much better shot at a championship this season. Harden goes to PG and Tucker goes to a role-player on limited minute defender.

You start Harden with Richardson, Butler, Love and Bam, tell Herro he has a green light at all times as the scoring 6th man with possibly Martin, Tucker, Bryant, JJJ, Jovic and Highsmith.

If you want to just try to outscore teams you can run Harden, Herro, Butler, Martin and Bam on the court.

In 11 playoff games where Harden was a 2nd option, 9 of 11 games he had 6+ assists, 4 of those 10+ assists. Scoring wise he had 4 20+ point games and 2 of those were 40+, one of those winning in Boston without Embiid.

It's a gamble but it gives you more talent for more wins in the regular season making the playoffs a little easier and it makes Bam and Herro the #3 and #4 option in the playoffs with a great passing PG.

Yes, I'd give up 2 1sts and a swap without thinking about it, how many 1sts is worth giving your franchise a strong chance at winning a championship?

This FO is unwilling to give up that much for a chance, and its not a strong chance. There aren't any players on the board you could have traded for to get you a strong chance, those are the Steph's, Durants, Jokic level players. We were willing to squeak a bit on a Lillard, but he still had 4 years left so you could still potentially hold value in being able to flip him down the line if it doesn't work out. You don't have that with Harden unfortunately, and he doesn't have a great track record to make our FO fell warm and fuzzy to go for it. I don't think we can debate he wouldnt help a bit, he still was a great ball distributor even in games his shot was off.

Miami will play with one foot in the contention Jimmy window and one foot looking at whats next for our future. They know big changes are coming, the cap may go up significantly and some players may want out of teams, they need every asset they have to swing for the bigger deals, the 28-30 year old stars they can pair with Bam & Herro to give us an additional 6-8 year contention window.

What you see is what you get, at the trade deadline you might see Lowry or Lowry and Duncan + 1 FRP get sent for a middle of the line player, not a star but also slightly top echelon role player that will give us something of need to perhaps improve our odds, if that trade is available. Jimmy's window is beholden on how much Bam & Herro have improved, and how much more we can squeeze our role players to perform, and what Jovic and JJJ can produce in this year and the next.

Well, it's quite possible they waste Butler's window by not going all in and then Miami is not only looking for a star to replace Butler to possibly get to where they currently are while also looking for that 2nd star to have a real shot at a future championship.

It really feels like most of this board thinks what Butler is doing for Miami is easily replaceable, it's not, they've been looking for another guy like him and haven't gotten one in nearly half a decade since acquiring Butler for peanuts. Harden has the ability to be an MVP candidate if given the #1 option role vs being more of a pure PG like he was with the 76ers and Embiid, his shots have dropped to around 14 per36 but he's still highly efficient at over 60% TS% and dishing out 10+ assists a night.

I don't disagree with you, players like Butler are not found on the shelf somewhere. He is every bit a top 5 wing in the playoffs that is more than capable of winning you a series on his own. I do believe even Miami didn't know like most of us what Jimmy truly was gonna be for us in hindsight. I think they had a vision and general build they wanted with him but had zero ideas we would be in 3 ECF appearances and 2 Finals appearances in the last 4 years. If they could go back in time there would of been some overpays done in one of the last 4 seasons to get us something more, even if it dried up our assets.

I think they spent the last 4 years trying to swing at big upgrades with little assets instead of making the little ones. I mean they are a swing hard or go home franchise. All the while Jimmy and the boys are over here doing their thing, with undrafted players. It sucks, most of us wanted the easy trade the one you could make to make a small upgrade instead of swinging big and missing, like we have been doing.

[AirP.]

I don't disagree with you, players like Butler are not found on the shelf somewhere. He is every bit a top 5 wing in the playoffs that is more than capable of winning you a series on his own. I do believe even Miami didn't know like most of us what Jimmy truly was gonna be for us in hindsight. I think they had a vision and general build they wanted with him but had zero ideas we would be in 3 ECF appearances and 2 Finals appearances in the last 4 years. If they could go back in time there would of been some overpays done in one of the last 4 seasons to get us something more, even if it dried up our assets.

I think they spent the last 4 years trying to swing at big upgrades with little assets instead of making the little ones. I mean they are a swing hard or go home franchise. All the while Jimmy and the boys are over here doing their thing, with undrafted players. It sucks, most of us wanted the easy trade the one you could make to make a small upgrade instead of swinging big and missing, like we have been doing.

Quit lying to yourself, Miami lowballs teams in trades and hopes they have enough leverage to get the best player in the deal. They could have had Beal but looked beyond him at Lillard who they could had gone all in early and didn't try to let leverage force Portland to send him to Miami. I was ok with the lowballing of Lillard this time, but I do acknowledge it was a low-ball offer for a player of that talent.

They lowballed Houston for Oladipo when everyone thought he was almost back to 100%, they lowballed for Butler from Philly, they lowballed Toronto trying to get Lowry before he was a FA and had to negotiate a S&T.

The one good thing is that this FO/Owner is good with going up to the tax line so he's not trying to maximize his profits like Chicago did year after year... selling off talent to save a few million here and there.

[IceColdCubano]

I don't disagree with you, players like Butler are not found on the shelf somewhere. He is every bit a top 5 wing in the playoffs that is more than capable of winning you a series on his own. I do believe even Miami didn't know like most of us what Jimmy truly was gonna be for us in hindsight. I think they had a vision and general build they wanted with him but had zero ideas we would be in 3 ECF appearances and 2 Finals appearances in the last 4 years. If they could go back in time there would of been some overpays done in one of the last 4 seasons to get us something more, even if it dried up our assets.

I think they spent the last 4 years trying to swing at big upgrades with little assets instead of making the little ones. I mean they are a swing hard or go home franchise. All the while Jimmy and the boys are over here doing their thing, with undrafted players. It sucks, most of us wanted the easy trade the one you could make to make a small upgrade instead of swinging big and missing, like we have been doing.

Quit lying to yourself, Miami lowballs teams in trades and hopes they have enough leverage to get the best player in the deal. They could have had Beal but looked beyond him at Lillard who they could had gone all in early and didn't try to let leverage force Portland to send him to Miami. I was ok with the lowballing of Lillard this time, but I do acknowledge it was a low-ball offer for that much talent.

They lowballed Houston for Oladipo when everyone thought he was almost back to 100%, they lowballed for Butler from Philly, they lowballed Toronto trying to get Lowry before he was a FA and had to negotiate a S&T.

The one good thing is that this FO/Owner is good with going up to the tax line so he's not trying to maximize his profits like Chicago did year after year... selling off talent to save a few million here and there.

I mean I have to lie to myself a lil bit here and there, how else would I be able to be fan of a sports franchise. I am a dolphins & Marlins fan, so were no stranger to crappy moves only to rub ourselves that it will be alright the following year. Yeah we low ball some call it negotiations

[AirP.]

I don't disagree with you, players like Butler are not found on the shelf somewhere. He is every bit a top 5 wing in the playoffs that is more than capable of winning you a series on his own. I do believe even Miami didn't know like most of us what Jimmy truly was gonna be for us in hindsight. I think they had a vision and general build they wanted with him but had zero ideas we would be in 3 ECF appearances and 2 Finals appearances in the last 4 years. If they could go back in time there would of been some overpays done in one of the last 4 seasons to get us something more, even if it dried up our assets.

I think they spent the last 4 years trying to swing at big upgrades with little assets instead of making the little ones. I mean they are a swing hard or go home franchise. All the while Jimmy and the boys are over here doing their thing, with undrafted players. It sucks, most of us wanted the easy trade the one you could make to make a small upgrade instead of swinging big and missing, like we have been doing.

Quit lying to yourself, Miami lowballs teams in trades and hopes they have enough leverage to get the best player in the deal. They could have had Beal but looked beyond him at Lillard who they could had gone all in early and didn't try to let leverage force Portland to send him to Miami. I was ok with the lowballing of Lillard this time, but I do acknowledge it was a low-ball offer for that much talent.

They lowballed Houston for Oladipo when everyone thought he was almost back to 100%, they lowballed for Butler from Philly, they lowballed Toronto trying to get Lowry before he was a FA and had to negotiate a S&T.

The one good thing is that this FO/Owner is good with going up to the tax line so he's not trying to maximize his profits like Chicago did year after year... selling off talent to save a few million here and there.

I mean I have to lie to myself a lil bit here and there, how else would I be able to be fan of a sports franchise. I am a dolphins & Marlins fan, so were no stranger to crappy moves only to rub ourselves that it will be alright the following year. Yeah we low ball some call it negotiations

Well, most of the trades I see in the NBA are trades where both team benefits, Miami seems to utilize leverage more than pretty much anyone else in the league, so they almost come out winning that particular trade but who knows how many trades they didn't make that would have helped them but would have had to give up nearly the same level of value. It's a valid way of negotiating but I think it hurts way more than it helps, with a great coach like Spoelstra, just give him the best roster you can give him every single season.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

They say the goal is a championship but like they say, actions speak louder than words. We will not be making any moves to improve this roster yet again and if you’re holding your breathe for a trade deadline deal don’t, we rarely make them.

[twix2500]

Harden and Herro can not coexist

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[VaDe255]

Harden and Herro can not coexist

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76ers started Harden/Maxey last season every time they got the chance and finished with the 3rd best record in the league but the Heat wouldn't be able to start Herro/Harden!?

[Bourne85]

Harden and Herro can not coexist

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76ers started Harden/Maxey last season every time they got the chance and finished with the 3rd best record in the league but the Heat wouldn't be able to start Herro/Harden!?

We aren’t trading for Harden, it’s that simple.

[dean456]

Every minute that old and slow potato is out on the floor is another minute that Bam & Jimmy will have to rotate over to help prevent the guard from penetrating into the paint. I am absolutely done with this cat, he is cooked, done, put a fork in him. Those 7-9 assist hell get you will mean nothing!!! when it comes at him allowing 20 points from the point guard he is guarding.

To be clear this isn't the rotation I want but the one I think the team is currently leading with.

Personally I want the rotation to be.

JRich(22mpg)/Lowry(18mpg)
Herro(32mpg)/Robinson(16mpg)
Butler(32mpg)/Jaquez(26mpg)
Highsmith(18mpg)/Martin(28mpg)
Bam(32mpg)/Bryant(16mpg)

Closing lineup
Herro
Jaquez
Butler
Martin
Bam

I like your rotations, in-fact I think if you asked Spo before training camp and pre-season Id bet that's what he would pencil in on the board with perhaps Kevin Love at PF. Also doubtful that JJJ will be in a closing lineup as a rookie, hed have to have the type of first year that puts him in top 3 nomination for rookie of the year.

Kevin Love will play this year one way or another, a solid 15 minutes at least, whether thats starting or coming from the bench its left to be seen.

I also do not like Martin at the PF spot, this is were Love will get his backup minutes, You may even see some Jovic minutes even if its 10 minutes there. The odd man out is probable either Jaquez or Duncan, you cannot play Duncan at the guard spot, and on defense he is miserable anywhere you put him. Caleb is far better defending the SG spot and JJJ plays the SF spot good enough. If you were to insert a motion shooter in the back up lineups, Swider is the better fit since hes 6'-9" and can be put at the PF spot.

We really have a lot of wings this year, way too many good ones were its going to be really hard.
after Jimmy(32m), Caleb(30m), Love(15m) that's 75-77 minutes of forwards that are guarantied out of 96 minutes.
That gives you another 19 minutes remaining to feature one of - Jovic, JJJ, Highsmith, Swider, Duncan, Cain

This means the team has to make a decision on who plays the back up SG minutes either - Duncan or JJJ.
and who gets the remaining 19-20 minutes of forward minutes either - Highsmith, Swider, Jovic, Cain or one of the two from above not getting SG back up minutes.

Its just hard not to play Martin at PF when you have Jimmy playing SG 32mins and Herro playing SG 32mins. Unless Duncan Robinson is out of the rotation then I would make it.

JRich(24mins)/Lowry(18mins)
Herro(32mins)/Jaquez(24mins)
Butler(32mins)/Martin(26mins)
Highsmith(16mins)/Jovic(20mins)
Bam(32mins)/Bryant(16mins)

Games when Jimmy or Herro doesn't play Jaquez gets the starters mins and Robinson gets run off the bench.
Games when Martin sits give more mins to Jovic.
Games when Bam doesn't play Jovic gets more mins and O.Robinson gets more run.

[AirP.]

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[VaDe255]

Harden and Herro can not coexist

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76ers started Harden/Maxey last season every time they got the chance and finished with the 3rd best record in the league but the Heat wouldn't be able to start Herro/Harden!?

We aren’t trading for Harden, it’s that simple.

I don't care if Heat trade for Harden or not, but I will point out ridiculous statements.

[SerialChiller]

Ya giving up anything pick wise for Harden would be a mistake. He doesn't improve our chances enough to justify sacrificing future picks. No one left available is unfortunately the chance to greatly improve our chances is gone until the trade deadline now anyways...