Who is the best defensive SG of all time?

[ShotCreator]

Probably Moncrief or Jordan. Wade and Manu need removing. Nowhere in RealWorld are they considered better than Kobe, who somehow isn't listed.

Kobe doesn't belong in this discussion either, of course.[/quote and ]
Is Wade really unworthy? He's commonly referred to as the best shot blocking guard ever. Assuming that is warranted - and maybe it isn't - that must count for something

The best shot blocking guard I've ever seen is this guy: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcdankj01.html

Freakish and super springy dude with a knack for the timing of all kinds of blocks.

And he barely scraped up enough acumen to be a good defender. Definitely wasn't a consistent one.

If we're talking guard rim protection. Two names spring up, and they easily top Wade on the ability to protect the rim.

Gary Payton II, and Andre Roberson.

Andre Roberson in his 18 peak was all-time good defensively from a guard. They let PG and WB aggressively go over screens and play passing lanes, and Roberson was so freakishly in a zone as a help guy that he made these 4 on 3 situations that should've been death for OKC's defense, actually become an advantage because of his timing in stepping up and recovering what looked to be openings.

Ridiculous on closeouts at the three point line and very, very good at recovering to the rim. He was doing things no coach would ask of any defender, just like any of the greats.

OKC fell apart when he got injured and never recovered.

Wade was a decent defender who could turn it up and be pretty good at times, but his raw foot speed against truly athletic wings was average, and his habits were bad as far as gambling. If you telegraph any shot attempt around him he would smother you though and maybe block it.

[parsnips33]

KJ McDaniels mentioned!!!!

[iggymcfrack]

Probably Moncrief or Jordan. Wade and Manu need removing. Nowhere in RealWorld are they considered better than Kobe, who somehow isn't listed.

Kobe doesn't belong in this discussion either, of course.

Does 96-98 MJ?

96-98 MJ was a MUCH better defender than Kobe in 2005-2007 and 2014-2016

[iggymcfrack]

I voted Moncrief although it’s very difficult to gauge since we’re mostly going on reputation from that period. It was either him or Tony Allen, but I picked Moncrief since he was able to do it while playing a full minute load while Allen’s minutes were always hit and miss.

[Jaivl]

Matisse Thybulle, anyone?

Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant both say Tony Allen was their hardest defender.

Jordan himself would probably name Joe Dumars

Cause Jordan is not stupid and knows to prop up his competition makes him look better.

Dumars' not close to ATG, standing at a slim 6'3".

[Djoker]

Dumars should be on the poll. He was small but very quick laterally and knew how to defend the point of attack.

Jerry Sloan is another one who could be on there.

[mdonnelly1989]

Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant both say Tony Allen was their hardest defender.

“Tony Allen, that’s easy,” said Bryant when asked about who the toughest defender was. “He was the only one who wasn’t crying for help. Tony Allen would play straight up, he’d be physical, I could score 10-straight and he’d still be there, still being physical, not backing down. Tony Allen by far.” (Kobe circa 2018)

“My game was always free-flowing, I’m out there just playing. Ball comes to me. I'm gonna shoot it, get in the lane, I'm gonna go. He (Allen) was cutting s*** off, denying the ball from me, got into my pocket. So I needed to find different setups, I started working on preparation before I catch the ball, just small parts of the game, I felt like he was teaching me that little s***.” Durant stated.

“He was so f****** good, he was a master at playing defense, you don’t understand how great he was at playing defense.” Durant concluded. (KD earlier this year).

Steph Curry names him in his Top 3 toughest.

“There’s a group of three that always ... the lightbulb went off when they were on the court,” said Curry. “It’s Jrue Holiday, Tony Allen, and Ron Artest, actually. I didn’t get to play too many games against [Artest], but he had the strongest hands you’ve ever seen in your life.” (Curry a couple months ago)

3 of the greatest perimeter players of all-time. With completely different offensive styles. Covering 27+ years of time (4 MVPs, 5 Finals MVPs, 11 titles). All 3 admit Allen was the absolute man.

The advanced defensive metrics and eye test both back up the fact that Allen was ridiculous on defense.

I'm glad Tony Allen is getting the recognition he deserves. I remember taking the Grizzlies over the Thunder with WB and KD because I liked their chances given that I know Tony Allen would slow both of them down. And he did and they won in 7.

Also Tony Allen really limited KD with what 5-6 less inches on him?

[kcktiny]

Michael Jordan
Sidney Moncrief
Alvin Robertson
Dennis Johnson (Seattle, early Phoenix days)
Jerry West

Tony Allen was a great defender but averaged playing just 1300-1400 minutes a season.

[Dr Positivity]

Probably the players who can try harder on D like Allen

[SNPA]

HM Doug Christie.

[JimmyFromNz]

I like the top 3 in this poll. MJ, Moncrief and Allen. Michael is obviously a different profile when balanced against his immense offensive load, but in a vacuum he could play to that level. Consistency is probably what determines how you could choose to rank them.

Not to try distract from the discussion, but I wouldn't have Manu in it, unless I put significant weight into his handcuffed defensive rating numbers on elite Spurs defensive teams. I just don't think that's a realistic representation. Quick hands and anticipation yes, speed yes, in the conversation for greatest of all time? Definitive no. There are a host of specialist guards I'd have above him on a list (who still played more minutes) like Battier, Christie etc then onto the higher usage guys like Joe Dumars and Eddie Jones.

[SHAQ32]

Probably the players who can try harder on D like Allen

Like Jordan, who also tried on offense

[penbeast0]

Probably the players who can try harder on D like Allen

Like Jordan, who also tried on offense

And yet Moncrief (and West if you consider him a SG) were among the best offensive guards of their era as well so it's not just defensive specialists being suggested. With Jordan it's more his psyche, he felt he was so superior to everyone else, he was always looking for a reason to try his best and be motivated and when he didn't find it, he would slack off. Of course, with the size of the chip on his shoulder, it didn't take much to get him fired up (shout out to LaBradford Smith!).

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[OfficialRef]

lol @ the manu option