Stotts Steps Down

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Or they are the bosses

bosses do not have the right to carte blanche interfere with, disrespect, and belittle their employees who are doing the jobs that in previous conversations have also been instructed.

stotts was doing his job. stotts im sure was following general instructions from AG with every word that came out his mouth to the guys and he was doing it at the exact proper time. The problem was sorting the timing of the other demands placed on him.

**** micromanager control freak bosses often run into this problem. They will instruct employees with so many directives that often times they start falling into direct contradiction of other directives. Eventually the employee cant do their job without asking for permission of every action at every time.

the fact he got reamed publically for doing his job and not doing his job at the same time is insane and we all have worked for dicks like that. stotts said the hell with this. the story is right in the news. theres nothing even to debate here

Do you not see how many assumptions you are making so this falls in line with your agenda? Truth is no one has any idea how nuanced the situation is/was, maybe you would think AG was in the right if you experienced everything

i will agree that i am dealing with some bias with AG. I didnt like him before he was hired so any evidence of the clown show hes running that comes to light is probably affecting me worse than it should

[H2tObes]

bosses do not have the right to carte blanche interfere with, disrespect, and belittle their employees who are doing the jobs that in previous conversations have also been instructed.

stotts was doing his job. stotts im sure was following general instructions from AG with every word that came out his mouth to the guys and he was doing it at the exact proper time. The problem was sorting the timing of the other demands placed on him.

**** micromanager control freak bosses often run into this problem. They will instruct employees with so many directives that often times they start falling into direct contradiction of other directives. Eventually the employee cant do their job without asking for permission of every action at every time.

the fact he got reamed publically for doing his job and not doing his job at the same time is insane and we all have worked for dicks like that. stotts said the hell with this. the story is right in the news. theres nothing even to debate here

Do you not see how many assumptions you are making so this falls in line with your agenda? Truth is no one has any idea how nuanced the situation is/was, maybe you would think AG was in the right if you experienced everything

i will agree that i am dealing with some bias with AG. I didnt like him before he was hired so any evidence of the clown show hes running that comes to light is probably affecting me worse than it should

Yeah and I'll agree I liked having Stotts as a safety net and it's not a good look for the Bucks in general, but I just can't get myself to hypothesize what happened in all the encounters leading up to Stotts deciding this wasn't where he wanted to be. I've seen too many situations where you think you know it from the outside but it's a 180 from your expectations in reality.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Do you not see how many assumptions you are making so this falls in line with your agenda? Truth is no one has any idea how nuanced the situation is/was, maybe you would think AG was in the right if you experienced everything

i will agree that i am dealing with some bias with AG. I didnt like him before he was hired so any evidence of the clown show hes running that comes to light is probably affecting me worse than it should

Yeah and I'll agree I liked having Stotts as a safety net and it's not a good look for the Bucks in general, but I just can't get myself to hypothesize what happened in all the encounters leading up to Stotts deciding this wasn't where he wanted to be. I've seen too many situations where you think you know it from the outside but it's a 180 from your expectations in reality.

after a couple weeks in camp its now been quoted in the media and its all over the place that AG publically reamed his 65 yo old coach with 20 years experience in this league for a minor transgression. it matter very little what led up to it....the focus here is what happened in this particular circumstance.

stotts... with all his history with dame and now teamed with the perfect mate in giannis.... quits suddenly. he isnt taking a break instead he says he intends to coach elsewhere. thats what people do when they realize they are in a toxic situation.

AG is blindsided and claims publically he didnt see it coming.

you cant make up how bad these three simple FACTS are if youre trying to draw a conclusion about AGs personality. not his coaching style... literally his personality.

if this is how this control freak handles adversity or quite frankly anything that gets a little tough then god help us.

[jschligs]

i will agree that i am dealing with some bias with AG. I didnt like him before he was hired so any evidence of the clown show hes running that comes to light is probably affecting me worse than it should

Yeah and I'll agree I liked having Stotts as a safety net and it's not a good look for the Bucks in general, but I just can't get myself to hypothesize what happened in all the encounters leading up to Stotts deciding this wasn't where he wanted to be. I've seen too many situations where you think you know it from the outside but it's a 180 from your expectations in reality.

after a couple weeks in camp its now been quoted in the media and its all over the place that AG publically reamed his 65 yo old coach with 20 years experience in this league for a minor transgression. it matter very little what led up to it....the focus here is what happened in this particular circumstance.

stotts... with all his history with dame and now teamed with the perfect mate in giannis.... quits suddenly. he isnt taking a break instead he says he intends to coach elsewhere. thats what people do when they realize they are in a toxic situation.

AG is blindsided and claims publically he didnt see it coming.

you cant make up how bad these three simple FACTS are if youre trying to draw a conclusion about AGs personality. not his coaching style... literally his personality.

if this is how this control freak handles adversity or quite frankly anything that gets a little tough then god help us.

That seems extremely excessive given what I've read.

[crowhead76]

This is maddening, from the only reports we know, Stotts was insubordinate, case closed. Stotts might be a great guy but that does not change that he did not follow the direction that he was given. As a former head coach, he had to be aware that his actions were divisive and would end up creating a division in the locker room. A team with championship aspirations can not have that. Several of the other coaches on staff have coached with AG before, why take a job with him if he is a toxic hard ass. This is not AG being a control freak, it boils down to Stotts not being comfortable with his role.

[dbrodz7]

Put it this way, is there any scenario where AG comes out of this looking good? Absolute best case scenario here for Griffin and the Bucks is that Griff lost his top assistant right before the season? In no way do I see how this can be considered good

Yeah, the Bucks win 60 games and Griffin wins coach of the year and nobody even remembers Stotts exists come June.

[MVP2110]

Put it this way, is there any scenario where AG comes out of this looking good? Absolute best case scenario here for Griffin and the Bucks is that Griff lost his top assistant right before the season? In no way do I see how this can be considered good

Yeah, the Bucks win 60 games and Griffin wins coach of the year and nobody even remembers Stotts exists come June.

I still don't think in that scenario losing your top assistant would be considered a good thing, it would just mean he was able to overcome it.

Also Bud won 60 games and coach of the year and people still hated him

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Yeah and I'll agree I liked having Stotts as a safety net and it's not a good look for the Bucks in general, but I just can't get myself to hypothesize what happened in all the encounters leading up to Stotts deciding this wasn't where he wanted to be. I've seen too many situations where you think you know it from the outside but it's a 180 from your expectations in reality.

after a couple weeks in camp its now been quoted in the media and its all over the place that AG publically reamed his 65 yo old coach with 20 years experience in this league for a minor transgression. it matter very little what led up to it....the focus here is what happened in this particular circumstance.

stotts... with all his history with dame and now teamed with the perfect mate in giannis.... quits suddenly. he isnt taking a break instead he says he intends to coach elsewhere. thats what people do when they realize they are in a toxic situation.

AG is blindsided and claims publically he didnt see it coming.

you cant make up how bad these three simple FACTS are if youre trying to draw a conclusion about AGs personality. not his coaching style... literally his personality.

if this is how this control freak handles adversity or quite frankly anything that gets a little tough then god help us.

That seems extremely excessive given what I've read.

maybe. perhaps i should have just said he "yelled at him" instead of reamed him. im just going off the idea about "yelling". like if somebody yelled at you in front of a bunch of other people that you needed to get your ass someplace how would you describe that "incident" to others?

maybe guys do better at being yelled at or with being publicly humiliated than me. that is possible

From the Athletic

When the players and coaches broke the huddle, Stotts went in the opposite direction of the coaches’ huddle and instead started walking toward players to discuss the offense. As Stotts attempted to start a conversation with Lillard and Giannis Antetokounmpo, Griffin called to Stotts to join the coaching huddle. When Stotts asked for some time with the players, Griffin yelled for Stotts to join the coaches’ huddle. The incident occurred in front of the entire team, those sources said.

[Ron Swanson]

I don't think that Griffin really benefits either from this already ingrained fan bias against ex-players turned coaches. Kidd certainly had something to do with that, but already seeing more than one Kidd comparison lobbed his way certainly seems premature and lazy. We'll know by this time next year how good or bad of a coach Griffin is.

Not-so-hot-take: There's a sizable portion of fans who tend to question one's head coaching acumen when they don't have the appearance of a hipster librarian who majors in MATH.

[glenn]

Am I crazy or is the only quote we have "When Stotts asked for some time with the players, Griffin yelled for Stotts to join the coaches’ huddle"? There is a world of difference between yelling "Terry, let's get in the huddle" from across the gym and "publicly reaming" someone. Usually I would chalk it up to the usual board overreaction, but there are some normally level headed people running with some twisted versions of this quote. I'm not going to carry water for AG, he could be the worst and your assistant leaving is a bad look, but this reaction is sitting really weird with me.

[crowhead76]

$192,893,381 - that is the cost of the Bucks team this year that Adrian Griffin has been hired to manage. So far he has done so with rave reviews from the players, all of them speaking very highly of his style and his dedication to treating everyone on the team the same, no special privileges. Now if he has a coach working under him that believes he has special privileges things begin to unravel for the entire team. This should not be hard to understand, those defending Stotts and saying AG should not have yelled at him because it hurt his feelings, give me a break, $192,893,381 is what AG is responsible for and if someone steps out of line, I sure hope they get lambasted as this is not a time to be an individual, this is a team.

[Epicurus]

I think TS was comfortable with the agreed upon role. but gradually less so with its translation into practice. Taking a few minutes to address a coachable moment with key players (which I believe can serve team purposes) is insubordiantion? How fragile and autocratic must any hc be!

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I don't think that Griffin really benefits either from this already ingrained fan bias against ex-players turned coaches. Kidd certainly had something to do with that, but already seeing more than one Kidd comparison lobbed his way certainly seems premature and lazy. We'll know by this time next year how good or bad of a coach Griffin is.

Not-so-hot-take: There's a sizable portion of fans who tend to question one's head coaching acumen when they don't have the appearance of a hipster librarian who majors in MATH.

in order to change the topic away from stotts i'll respond....

personally i just didnt like how we fired a championship level coach for a guy with no experience, who wasnt our top choice, who wasnt better at offense then defense... because our best player, who isnt even all that cerebral about the game himself, liked him better than more proven options

like the whole thing was a big yikes to me to begin with

i would have preferred the hipster librarian looking gm we already have had made the final decision and brought in who he really wanted

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Am I crazy or is the only quote we have "When Stotts asked for some time with the players, Griffin yelled for Stotts to join the coaches’ huddle"? There is a world of difference between yelling "Terry, let's get in the huddle" from across the gym and "publicly reaming" someone. Usually I would chalk it up to the usual board overreaction, but there are some normally level headed people running with some twisted versions of this quote. I'm not going to carry water for AG, he could be the worst and your assistant leaving is a bad look, but this reaction is sitting really weird with me.

its a yelled at public incident reported in the news that was the final straw for stotts. thats kind of not a small thing. the guys getting alot of and1s from epi ore the guys describing it this way. im going to go with it

[skones]

$192,893,381 - that is the cost of the Bucks team this year that Adrian Griffin has been hired to manage. So far he has done so with rave reviews from the players, all of them speaking very highly of his style and his dedication to treating everyone on the team the same, no special privileges. Now if he has a coach working under him that believes he has special privileges things begin to unravel for the entire team. This should not be hard to understand, those defending Stotts and saying AG should not have yelled at him because it hurt his feelings, give me a break, $192,893,381 is what AG is responsible for and if someone steps out of line, I sure hope they get lambasted as this is not a time to be an individual, this is a team.

That's what the media days are for. It's one big PR piece. I wouldn't be reading much into what players are saying about coaching and practices.

[Matches Malone]

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Put it this way, is there any scenario where AG comes out of this looking good? Absolute best case scenario here for Griffin and the Bucks is that Griff lost his top assistant right before the season? In no way do I see how this can be considered good

Yeah, the Bucks win 60 games and Griffin wins coach of the year and nobody even remembers Stotts exists come June.

You could basically say that about any decision.

It's not disastrous but still a bad look. It would be like if the Bucks cut Jae Crowder tomorrow. Maybe it was 100% Jae's fault and it ultimately will make us a better team, but I think it is a fair reaction to question management making such a big unexpected big move 7 days before the regular season without looking prepared. Bare minimum they chose the wrong guy for the job and are left with a hole they can't fill this season.

[Dick Tate]

in order to change the topic away from stotts i'll respond....

personally i just didnt like how we fired a championship level coach for a guy with no experience, who wasnt our top choice, who wasnt better at offense then defense... because our best player, who isnt even all that cerebral about the game himself, liked him better than more proven options

like the whole thing was a big yikes to me to begin with

i would have preferred the hipster librarian looking gm we already have had made the final decision and brought in who he really wanted

I think this is the gist on why this thread is now on page 38.

[dbrodz7]

I agree it’s a bad look, but I think it’s wrong to say there is no way Griffin comes out looking good no matter what. If he wins the championship and butted heads with Stotts preseason it could be said that it was a good thing that happened because Griffin knew what he was doing. We have essentially no details and no data on Griffin as a coach yet, so I think it’s possible that this ends up being completely irrelevant was my point.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

in order to change the topic away from stotts i'll respond....

personally i just didnt like how we fired a championship level coach for a guy with no experience, who wasnt our top choice, who wasnt better at offense then defense... because our best player, who isnt even all that cerebral about the game himself, liked him better than more proven options

like the whole thing was a big yikes to me to begin with

i would have preferred the hipster librarian looking gm we already have had made the final decision and brought in who he really wanted

I think this is the gist on why this thread is now on page 38.

well said!

doesnt mean the guys in my camp are wrong about this or the AG fanboys are right. just that theres an awful lot riding on how this dude does for all of us